: American made? Goldwing VS Harley


Odysseys
07-10-2006, 02:37 PM
just felt like starting some talk.

to me both bikes are made in the USA by amercian workers.

both bikes are made with forien parts to some degreee.


so does the claim BUY AMERCIAN slander towards a goldwing stand true?

i dont think so, whats your thoughts?

HDTony
07-10-2006, 02:43 PM
When I had my valkyrie and someone gave me shit about it I just pointed to the big "Made in the USA" stamp on the side of the motor and they usually shut up.

The jap touring bikes are all built here by American workers which employs even more American workers via vendors to those plants, suppliers, support people such HVAC, repair technicians, electricians, engineers toll and die guys, machinists and so on and so on. like it or not Honda is a huge part of this countries economy. And thats not even including all the dealer network and all its people and the people that support it. But because the companies headquarters is over seas it will never be a truly be considered an American made bike.

Grasshopper
07-10-2006, 02:43 PM
For the Goldwing, Engineered in Japan, Assembled in America. Highly refined peice of machinary.

For the Harley, Engineered in America, misc. parts bought all over the world, assembled in America. Old fashioned tractor technology, still cool, but very outdated technology. The motor that is.

"MADE" is too vague of a word.

Vcook
07-10-2006, 02:44 PM
"buy american" these days pretty much refers to the location of the company itself since almost nothing is made entirely in america anymore.

personally when people say it I think they're idiots.

Arch
07-10-2006, 02:45 PM
No, and personally, I didn't think it ever did.

Odysseys
07-10-2006, 02:45 PM
good peice of economics, but i asked if harley was anymore american then a goldwing.

for tony

Grasshopper
07-10-2006, 02:46 PM
What if all the parts are "Made" overseas and it is assembled in America. Is that made in America?

Arch
07-10-2006, 02:46 PM
He said BUY not MADE

HDTony
07-10-2006, 02:46 PM
"buy american" these days pretty much refers to the location of the company itself since almost nothing is made entirely in america anymore.


+1

clearwaterms
07-10-2006, 02:47 PM
here are my thoughts, as I have had this discussion with people only car related and not motorcycle

example, the chevrolet camaro was made in mexico, but the camry is made in america. How can a camaro driver say his car was made in america, but the camry is jap crap?

here are my thoughts. first off, most people will use that arguement to bolster the confidence in there purchase choice, for example. If you bought a harley, and need to justify it, one justification is american made. Secondly, with the exception of the brand loyalist's, I truely believe that fewer and fewer people actually choose a particular brand based on where its made anymore. People want an image / style / performance characteristic / want to fit into a specific group of people, etc. They make there purchase for any combination of those and 100's of other reasons.

Now for those that do want to help the american economy, I believe there are two different ways to help the american economy. The democratic way, by making your purchase based on where the labor was made, or the republican theory of giving your money to the country for which that company calls home. If you purchase a vehicle that is made in america, you are helping the american people, by doing your part to ensure that who ever built your bike contines to have work. If you purchase a bike made in america that has it's dollars go home to another country, then please remember that you are helping the stock holders, some of which are american. In the end i truely think it's foolish to purchase based on where it's made or where it's designed. if its a quality product that fits your needs buy it, enjoy it, and stop trying to justify it...

ChgoRRGuy
07-10-2006, 02:49 PM
In today's global economy, there is no true "American Made" anymore. 99% of goods are made either with Foreign labor, or foreign parts. With competition among comparables fierce, American labor and manufacturing over the last decade and a half adopted more European and Japanese standards of manufacturing. With the higher quality controls that have made those firms top in their fields. Buying foreign goods still has a positive effect on our economy, from tariffs to labor. Think how many japanese cars are manufactured using American labor? When Nissan built its first plant in Alabama, their sales in this country shot over 30%, the same true with BMW in South Carolina. Harley has had a extremely tough time selling in foreign countries, because American Made has meant lower quality for decades. With Harley changing its tune it has increased sales and its stock has never been more solid, to say nothing for the old joke about following your oil droppings home joke. Basically the "Buy American or else" mentality is obsolete and ignorant. My 2 cents.

Arch
07-10-2006, 02:50 PM
'American' slant can also be put on materials that are made overseas.. like SaiPan, where perpetual indentured servitude and slavery type practices help produce the stuff that says Made in USA.

Odysseys
07-10-2006, 02:50 PM
so since honda main office is in japan

my bike is not american?


and a harley with its main office in "????? wisc" is american?



to me when some dumb ass shouts BUY AMERCIAN while yelling to a jap bike, i am thinking he is trying to mean support americans and keep the money in the usa to support american made jobs. "to me anyway"

so personally i think when i bought my goldwing with honda corp, i just helped out more american jobs then harley corp.

Arch
07-10-2006, 02:53 PM
If you bought it here you're helping the local shop stay in business. That's about as American as you get.

whiteSeatEnvy
07-10-2006, 02:54 PM
"Made in America" "Buy American" is just marketing/sales. it is a made up "feature" that has exagerated benefits and superficial advantages.

HDTony
07-10-2006, 02:55 PM
good peice of economics, but i asked if harley was anymore american then a goldwing.

for tony
Yes, mainly because a huge portion of the American people consider the Harley Davidson brand a symbol of America. Its the a wildly successful American company that has been around for over 100 years, and people from all around the world see it rank it up there with Mom, apple pie and baseball as American symbols.

yes a lot of it is marketing genius, but they have a loyal following that has become a lifestyle. think about that dealer we stopped at up north, like vcook was saying, how often do you see a group of people just come up to a Honda dealer to cook out on the grill on a rainy morning when there is no special event going on. It's a way of life for people and I feel that's what makes it so uniquely American.

Arch
07-10-2006, 02:57 PM
yes a lot of it is marketing genius, but they have a loyal following that has become a lifestyle. think about that dealer we stopped at up north, like vcook was saying, how often do you see a group of people just come up to a Honda dealer to cook out on the grill on a rainy morning when there is no special event going on. It's a way of life for people and I feel that's what makes it so uniquely American.

Uh, Honda owners have homes and know where public parks are?

:rofl

Grasshopper
07-10-2006, 02:58 PM
Did some biker guy yell at you while you were riding your wing ken?

clearwaterms
07-10-2006, 03:01 PM
Did some biker guy yell at you while you were riding your wing ken?


actually,

I think it was a retarded kid thinking Ken was his ride to school

Phily-D
07-10-2006, 03:15 PM
actually,

I think it was a retarded kid thinking Ken was his ride to school
:spit

Paladin
07-10-2006, 03:15 PM
As long as it is sold in America it is added to GDP and that is good. The buggest complaint is if it Union made or not. There was a big todo when our former Union President bought a Saab. Even though they are owned by GM and made in America I think it is non-union. That is the difference for some people.

Just an explanation not anti or pro union in any way.

Odysseys
07-10-2006, 03:18 PM
Did some biker guy yell at you while you were riding your wing ken?


:laughing no, i am just wanted to bring up a new topic.


but this time its goldwing vs harley in the buy american sense with all the forien crap in both of them.

Odysseys
07-10-2006, 03:19 PM
actually,

I think it was a retarded kid thinking Ken was his ride to school


i hope your leg continues to hurt:flip :jester

Grasshopper
07-10-2006, 03:25 PM
You know whats cool?!?!

I was in Japan ealier this year, and I bought Rachel a Harley Davidson of Japan T-shirt.

Kick ass eh?

Underdog
07-10-2006, 03:25 PM
I buy used - from Americans.

It's the only way to be sure!

:laughing

Bug
07-10-2006, 03:27 PM
Tough topic and one that I think can go either way - The sad factor of this is that no matter what point or counterpoint this may raise, the fact is that HD carries the stigma of the old Stars and Stripes and Honda is just another Jap company - While the layers once peeled may show otherwise, we live in a very harsh and quick to judge world so I woud think that the average John Q Public would tend to think the same

Good Topic Ken - I gotta drop deuce now!

CHeYeNNe
07-10-2006, 03:30 PM
actually,

I think it was a retarded kid thinking Ken was his ride to school

:rofl :bow

HDTony
07-10-2006, 03:42 PM
As long as it is sold in America it is added to GDP and that is good. The buggest complaint is if it Union made or not. There was a big todo when our former Union President bought a Saab. Even though they are owned by GM and made in America I think it is non-union. That is the difference for some people.

Just an explanation not anti or pro union in any way.
Yup, the union issue is a big part of it. I know my tundra for example is made in america down in southern Indiana. but its a non union shop. I would never dream of parking it in the lot of a union hall if I had to go there. it woulds get burned regaurdless of where it was made.

Dirtbiker
07-10-2006, 03:53 PM
"Made in America" "Buy American" is just marketing/sales. it is a made up "feature" that has exagerated benefits and superficial advantages.


+1

Sam Walton was the one who started that shit in the early-mid 80's.


Print a US flag on a Indonesian tshirt + sell under sign that says made in America= $$

YZFRob
07-10-2006, 04:04 PM
example, the chevrolet camaro was made in mexico, but the camry is made in america. How can a camaro driver say his car was made in america, but the camry is jap crap?


Actually the camaro was only made in Canada since 82. GM wasnt allowed to build it anywhere but a canadian assembly plant until the contract with the CAW expires in 2007. Cant even use the name Camaro until after 2007.

YZFRob
07-10-2006, 04:15 PM
example, the chevrolet camaro was made in mexico, but the camry is made in america. How can a camaro driver say his car was made in america, but the camry is jap crap?


Actually the camaro was only made in Canada since 82. GM wasnt allowed to build it anywhere but a canadian assembly plant until the contract with the CAW expires in 2007. Cant even use the name Camaro until after 2007.

jimzx9r
07-10-2006, 04:16 PM
just felt like starting some talk.

to me both bikes are made in the USA by amercian workers.

both bikes are made with forien parts to some degreee.


so does the claim BUY AMERCIAN slander towards a goldwing stand true?

i dont think so, whats your thoughts?


Look up how many americans are employed by Harley vs the Honda factories. HD doesn't come close.

Then what is actually american on those HDs? The engine and frame? And only if it isn't a Vrod.

Maynard
07-10-2006, 04:27 PM
Look up how many americans are employed by Harley vs the Honda factories. HD doesn't come close.

Then what is actually american on those HDs? The engine and frame? And only if it isn't a Vrod.


i agree with the employee part. Honda definately employs more americans than HD. But most, (98%) of parts on harley are made in america. HD accessories and clothes are a different story.

Odysseys
07-10-2006, 04:29 PM
i agree with the employee part. Honda definately employs more americans than HD. But most, (98%) of parts on harley are made in america. HD accessories and clothes are a different story.


i think 98% of american parts is not acurate at all.

and if it is, i want the parts break down, down to the last bolt and where they were made and the materials came from.

Maynard
07-10-2006, 04:31 PM
my old company, (Safety Socket Screw) manufactures bolts for Harley. We did use japaneese steel though. It's a big reason why Harley are expensive. American made parts are not cheap. We can't compete with cheap labor overseas countries. But thats a whole different topic.

Blade Runner
07-10-2006, 04:33 PM
The issue is that part of the profits go to Honda (Japan) vs. H.D. (Milwaukee). In reality, both companies use at least some parts from foreign suppliers so almost nothing is purely US vs. Japan.

With a Honda, the buyers that say "Buy American" can more easily see that profits go abroad. Since "Buy American" is a simplification for simple minds, it might as well apply in this case.

Personally, I'd love to "Buy American", but American automotive and motorcycle engineering standards suck. The 3 American cars I've bought new all sucked and I took a bath on the resale. All of the big 3 messed me over. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me 3 times and I'm a dumb shit. I changed to Jap and have never looked back. My wife's old BMW was a POS too. At this time the only American vehicle I'd consider purchasing would be a Vette.

jimzx9r
07-10-2006, 05:05 PM
i agree with the employee part. Honda definately employs more americans than HD. But most, (98%) of parts on harley are made in america. HD accessories and clothes are a different story.

The last harley I touched had showa forks, a japan stamp on each wheel, a mikuni carb, and I only looked at it for about 3 minutes.

SloRoll
07-10-2006, 05:18 PM
Why is this question even being asked?:laughing :cruise

Odysseys
07-10-2006, 05:28 PM
Why is this question even being asked?:laughing :cruise


i thought it was a good topic, yesterday as i washed, waxed my bling wing, i noticed so many parts that said made in america.

YZFRob
07-10-2006, 05:36 PM
The last harley I touched had showa forks, a japan stamp on each wheel, a mikuni carb, and I only looked at it for about 3 minutes.

Toss in the electronics and rear shocks.

jimzx9r
07-10-2006, 05:41 PM
Toss in the electronics and rear shocks.

That's what I thought but I didn't look too hard at it.

Is the fuel injection japanese also? And the tires...I don't know what HD uses as stock.

KBOlsen
07-10-2006, 05:47 PM
Stock tires are Dunlop. IIRC, the fuel injection is a Delphi system (well, it was for a few years, anyway).

In a recent issue of HOG Tales, there was an article that discussed the actual % of parts on a Harley that are American-made. Close to 50%, I believe.

"American"? In what country is the company based? Gold Wings are built in Marysville, OH. Honda is headquartered in Japan. Harleys are assembled in Kansas City and York, PA... and is headquartered in Milwaukee.

SloRoll
07-10-2006, 06:01 PM
i thought it was a good topic, yesterday as i washed, waxed my bling wing, i noticed so many parts that said made in america.

It's a nice bike. Made in America. On a side note, did you know that the biggest oversea market for HD's, since the 30's, has always been Japan? Funny huh?:laughing

SloRoll
07-10-2006, 06:04 PM
"American"? In what country is the company based? Gold Wings are built in Marysville, OH. Honda is headquartered in Japan. Harleys are assembled in Kansas City and York, PA... and is headquartered in Milwaukee.

+1 Not so much made in America as it is an American company.

Brian
07-10-2006, 09:05 PM
Actually .... as of a couple years back at least .... the only bike made in America with 100% American parts was the Honda Magna.

RickC1957
07-11-2006, 06:51 AM
Interesting discussion...personally I support local business as much as I can. As for the Wing vs HD debate, I can honestly say I'm not sure how to feel about each....both are sucessful companies that employ Americans. I don't look down upon either machines or owners, no matter what I have said in the past;)

under200
07-11-2006, 07:13 AM
Wow, I learn something new everyday. I had no idea some Honda bikes were made here in the US. As for cars being made in the US vs. overseas goes... They are all made overseas somehow the way I see it. 2/3 of US car companies use assemblies. For example, Ford or GM does not make the seats or dashboards. They go to a 3rd party that specializes in it. That 3rd party in turn may have these parts made overseas or even import the whole damn assembly from overseas. GM is more guily than most when waving the American flag around their autos. I am a long time GM owner too. The Chevy Equinox has it's entire engine made and assembled in A GM plant in China! The engines are shipped here in crates and dropped in in the Detroit assm. line. Pretty wacked eh? I would never buy one, just couldn't do it morally, but that's just me. I would say in a case like this you could be more patriotic by buying a Toyota assembled in AL than the Chevy with it's Commi engine. But as we all know money for big business has one color, green. It still blows my mind how foreign auto makers are building multi million plants here in the US creatinf thousands of jobs meanwhile the big 3 US automakers are making more plants overseas eliminating US jobs :bangin

Under200

ChgoRRGuy
07-11-2006, 09:08 AM
Under200 - Goldwings are made in the US....not 1000RRs!!!

Kruz
07-11-2006, 09:19 AM
think about that dealer we stopped at up north, like vcook was saying, how often do you see a group of people just come up to a Honda dealer to cook out on the grill on a rainy morning when there is no special event going on. I believe Kruz said that, :rolleyes

BIGGY
07-11-2006, 09:49 AM
personally when people say it I think they're idiots.

+1

YZFRob
07-11-2006, 04:43 PM
Under200 - Goldwings are made in the US....not 1000RRs!!!


He said SOME Honda bikes.:laughing Big 4 cruisers are pretty much all built in the US. Sportbikes all mostly Japan (couple ZX's are built in Kansas). Tour bikes are a toss up.

HDTony
07-11-2006, 05:25 PM
I believe Kruz said that, :rolleyes
LOL opps

Schiernbeck
07-13-2006, 01:28 AM
i agree with the employee part. Honda definately employs more americans than HD. But most, (98%) of parts on harley are made in america. HD accessories and clothes are a different story.

98% I think you are quite high on your assumption.

Schiernbeck
07-13-2006, 01:34 AM
Actually .... as of a couple years back at least .... the only bike made in America with 100% American parts was the Honda Magna.

Not correct. 94-03 750 Magnas came with Showa forks and those aren't made in America without doing more research on it, I'm sure there are several other parts not made in the US either.

HDTony
07-13-2006, 07:01 AM
in this day and age I think we are going to have to look closer to the definition of the word made. does it encompass a products manufacturing process from minerals in the ground to it assembly? is it all encompassing from mineral to sales floor? When I think of made in America I think of built/assembled here by a company that it owned by Americans.

BLARNEY
07-13-2006, 09:13 AM
Honda has had a plant in Marysville Ohio for 25years.....

Godlwings, Vaylkeries, SHadows have all been produced there as well as Quads and ATV's.

http://www.ohio.honda.com/index2.cfm

Today, the buy American argument is for people with tiny little minds.

All companies and products are part of a larger Global economy... it is
just not a simple question. How do you decide what "American" is ?
Parts Content ? Location of Assembly ? Home country of Parent Company ?





Tom

BLARNEY
07-13-2006, 09:17 AM
Ohio Motorcycle plant - Current Production

http://www.ohio.honda.com/company/mmp.cfm

Models in Production:
Gold Wing 1800
VTX 1800 V-Twin Cruiser
Shadow Sabre 1100
VTX 1300 V-Twin Cruiser
Valkyrie Rune


Cool eh ?

YZFRob
07-15-2006, 03:18 AM
:cruise

Downforce137
07-15-2006, 01:05 PM
like vcook was saying, how often do you see a group of people just come up to a Honda dealer to cook out on the grill on a rainy morning when there is no special event going on. It's a way of life for people and I feel that's what makes it so uniquely American.

I work at a Honda dealer, and every nice day there's a bunch of guys standing around drinking coffee, shooting the shit all morning.. Most ride Wings, but there's alot of VTX guys too.. Almost every saturday, there's about 5 or 6 different bikes. Not the same 5 guys every week. There might even be a Harley or 2 in there too..

Jammin
07-16-2006, 08:33 PM
Firstly, Ken, most interesting topic :cheers

I would say in a case like this you could be more patriotic by buying a Toyota assembled in AL than the Chevy with it's Commi engine.

Under200, dont take this the wrong way or as an attack, but I think your comment on China is actually pretty outdated. I've visited China quite a few times this past year and was really suprised to see nothing what I expected of a Communist country. TV, billboards, etc was more racy and liberal than America, dare I say. (What the heck am I saying, America is so conservative :laughing) I was shocked to see couples kissing and making out in public in front of cops...

Anyways, back on topic, the funny thing is, (I'm just guessing) there's probably about 20% of Chinese made parts in every household, maybe more.

On the topic of internal parts, I read there's only about 2 or 3 LCD monitor suppliers in the world and everyone uses them, HP, Sony, Apple, Dell, Gateway, etc. They just slap a new housing on it. My cellphone battery says, "Origin of parts Japan, final assembly China"....

Shopping at Wal Mart might be the biggest anit-American thing :laughing

Kudos to everyone for speaking so level-headed on a topic I'm sure some feel strongly about :cheers

taziscool
07-16-2006, 08:38 PM
Ken(or anyone else), just tell those fucks that say "buy american" that you did(reguardless of bike manu.) by stating " I bought it from an American sales person in (blank) city, USA......in which the money will feed his American family! Got a f'n problem with it?"

Or better yet, buy used from another american......just to be certain the money WAS spent here.

Jimbo
07-16-2006, 08:58 PM
My bother yells at me because we want a Handa. He says "It's people like you because people ate jobless" Then I told him a few places in the USA where Handa. They he said "whatever" (good argument, right?)