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post #1 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-14-2010, 10:50 AM Thread Starter
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Am I over reacting?

So I just did the STT Gingerman track day on Saturday and there were a couple things that upset me and I just want a second opinion to see if anyone is on the same page as I am.

I want to start by saying that I really enjoyed myself and the structured novice program. Definitely a great day. Thanks to the CR's who really helped hone some skills and continue to make me a better rider. But now on to the two things that kind of pissed me off.

1. Pricing - A $110 track day is a deal no doubt. However when the total cost of the day comes to $130, I got a little aggravated. On June 3rd this post was made by STT advertising a $110 day with membership fees waived(no doubt a great deal). I called to sign up 5 days later on June 8th, only to be told I would be charged $15 extra because I was signing up within 14 days of the track day. If that's the case why wouldn't the OP disclose such information in the post since he was posting within that 14 day period of time? So whatever, I brushed it off and came to the conclusion that $125 was still a deal. But then when you get to the gates, the track tacks on another $5 for whatever the reason. I just don't get why they can't bundle all the costs together and say "this is the final cost of your track day".

I know it's only $20 but to me it kind of makes a difference.

2. The two up rider - First of all I didn't even know you could ride two up on the track. But to send someone out into the novice class riding two up and tell him it's okay to pass in the turns seemed a little ridiculous. I'm a new rider, this is my second season and only my 4th track day. I still get scared when 600's and 1000's blaze passed me in the straights. But then to have one with two people on and not even adhering to a 6ft rule while passing in the turns, the only thing going through my mind was WTF?

Alright well now that I've got that off my back, please tell me if I'm over reacting.

-Myles-
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post #2 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-14-2010, 10:57 AM
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post #3 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-14-2010, 10:59 AM
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The $20 would have pissed me off too, not b/c of the amount, but the lack of honesty or head's up with the advertising.

2up??? Why would someone do that?

Greg

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post #4 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-14-2010, 11:03 AM
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They (STT) always do a 2up session. It was probably announced, but you may have missed it. I too find that the 2up riders make questionable passes for the novice group, but I'm generally okay with passing. I can certainly understand your frustration, as the 2up riders go at a pretty good clip.

The $5 thing is well known, and it's dumb, but that's just the way it is.

As for the $15 "late fee", that's bogus. If they posted the deal within the late fee time window, they should make that known.

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post #5 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-14-2010, 11:04 AM
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You're definitely over reacting.

Try riding on the street next to people who are two up in flip flops on I55 going 120+ mph... its much scarier.

No, but on a serious note, you should probably point out if someone is not adhering to rules the day of the event so that the coaches and organizers can correct the problem. Can't do anything the day after.

The gate fee was only $5? You're lucky. I paid $30 to watch a bunch of old dudes on bikes equal or more to their age at Road America this weekend... and that's not including the $$ I dropped on food... and the loss of my dignity with Rachel's camera shoot.

Sounds like you need more seat time IMO.

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post #6 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-14-2010, 11:05 AM
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I agree, we should be notified that on top of track fees, there is also a $5 admission fee. It's not a deal breaker, but it would be nice to know about it ahead of time. Every other organization I raced (cars) with, the entry fee included admission, so it came as a surprise to me. I scraped change out of my car at ACC because I didn't know about the gate fee, and that it had to be paid in cash.
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post #7 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-14-2010, 11:06 AM
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Myles - was good meeting you.
Hear you on the 5$ gate charge - I can see it for guests but for riders I think it's a bit bogus.
This is a pretty frequent complaint and it has actually become an advertising tool for the other orgs. I guess in the end it comes down to STT discretion and that's the route they want to go.
As far as the late fee, in the past I have heard of it waived for CLSB members but I am not sure if that's the current stance or not.

Finally - I got a few decent shots of you. I went up on the hill by 2 for your final session before lunch. I recognized you and enutz's bikes so I tried to shoot some extra shots of you guys.







Last edited by iamnotgreg; 06-14-2010 at 11:09 AM.
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post #8 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-14-2010, 11:08 AM
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if 20$ is bothering you , you are in the wrong sport
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post #9 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-14-2010, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catwlights View Post

The gate fee was only $5? You're lucky. I paid $30 to watch a bunch of old dudes on bikes equal or more to their age at Road America this weekend... and that's not including the $$ I dropped on food... and the loss of my dignity with Rachel's camera shoot.

Sounds like you need more seat time IMO.
You went to a "Race Weekend" at Road America and are upset you had to pay an entrance fee!? Come on now!

Quote:
Originally Posted by elroy121 View Post
if 20$ is bothering you , you are in the wrong sport
I think it's more the principle than the money.

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post #10 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-14-2010, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CerkMX View Post
You went to a "Race Weekend" at Road America and are upset you had to pay an entrance fee!? Come on now!
(psst... was joking)

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post #11 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-14-2010, 11:18 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamnotgreg View Post
Myles - was good meeting you.
Hear you on the 5$ gate charge - I can see it for guests but for riders I think it's a bit bogus.
This is a pretty frequent complaint and it has actually become an advertising tool for the other orgs. I guess in the end it comes down to STT discretion and that's the route they want to go.
As far as the late fee, in the past I have heard of it waived for CLSB members but I am not sure if that's the current stance or not.

Finally - I got a few decent shots of you. I went up on the hill by 2 for your final session before lunch. I recognized you and enutz's bikes so I tried to shoot some extra shots of you guys.
Nice meeting you too Greg! Thanks for taking those shots. I really appreciate it especially since the photo crew took off after the first session. If you've got anymore I'll send you my email.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elroy121 View Post
if 20$ is bothering you , you are in the wrong sport
I know motorsports are not cheap. And I'm coming to motorcycles from racing cars, so I've seen the price difference. Most of my hobbies aren't inexpensive either. However in my particular situation I'm trying to save as much money as I can while still trying to enjoy life. So while $20 might not mean that much to some people, it does effect me a little bit.

Thanks for your opinion though, as that's all I was asking for.

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post #12 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-14-2010, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by elroy121 View Post
if 20$ is bothering you , you are in the wrong sport
It's not the amount, it's not being told about it up front. Big difference.
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post #13 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-14-2010, 11:23 AM
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STT makes it clear gate fee's are not covered, it's a fee assessed by the track.

Nesba pays the gate fees for you and any guests you bring, so if you want clear pricing you can ride with them, but note you're still paying the fee, it's just added into the price of the trackday (and probably a little bit more since they pay for guests and spectators as well).

The $15 late fee would bother me to, but look at it this way, NESBA's late fee is $20. If they didn't have "late fee's" or "early signup bonuses", however you look at it, chances are nobody would sign up to the last minute and on less favorable weather days they would loose a lot of money and possibly not be able to keep hosting days.

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post #14 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-14-2010, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catwlights View Post
(psst... was joking)
Still...still!

Tom

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacitus
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post #15 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-14-2010, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CerkMX View Post
Still...still!
Did someone remove your funny bone?

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post #16 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-14-2010, 11:25 AM
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You didn't get the reference (it's from Seinfeld)

Tom

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post #17 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-14-2010, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eE jeremy View Post
STT makes it clear gate fee's are not covered, it's a fee assessed by the track.
Everything I have read is the opposite of that.
There is no fee - they add the fee then split proceeds with the track.
At least that's what I have read elsewhere and been told.

NESBA doesn't add the fee, it's not that they are eating it - they just don't add it.
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post #18 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-14-2010, 11:39 AM
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i'm with myles. the nickel and diming is kind of ridiculous.

hey greg, did you get any pics of me?

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post #19 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-14-2010, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
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i'm with myles. the nickel and diming is kind of ridiculous.

hey greg, did you get any pics of me?
Yep - but you didn't post up yet

I sent Myles the link to the gallery


This is you right?
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post #20 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-14-2010, 11:49 AM
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This is you right?
Yeah that's me. Thank you sir. Myles just sent me the link.

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post #21 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-14-2010, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eE jeremy View Post
STT makes it clear gate fee's are not covered, it's a fee assessed by the track.
I checked the STT website, postings from STT, and the membership kit I got. I didn't see notice about a seperate track fee.

(Don't beat me up when we meet up for that bike table).
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post #22 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-14-2010, 12:24 PM
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Let me get this straight:

You didn't read the STT website before you signed up? If you did it is clealy spelled out there. Many people miss that.

$15 late fee is normal and it should be as someone explained earlier.
$5 gate fee is something a track charges. Other orgs may incorporate the cost into the track day fee but STT does not.

It seems that you just wanted to bitch about something. Instead you should thank STT for organizing a no membership required event. So there you go. Next time register on time and leave the f-ing tears at home. Track riding aint for little girls (unless you are a little girl)

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post #23 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-14-2010, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave13 View Post
I checked the STT website

Here it is:

Pricing Info / Pre-Entry, Post-Entry, and At Track: Prices posted on this site are "Pre-Entry" prices. "Pre-Entry" is defined as an order 16 days or more prior to the event. Registrations made 15 to 6 days prior are "Post-Entry" and subject to a $15 surcharge. All registrations received 5 days or less prior to an event are considered "At Track Sign Ups" and will be subject to a $25 surcharge. This policy will be strictly enforced as it rewards those who commit early and plan ahead while still allowing last minute registrations on a space available basis.
Pricing Info / Gate Fee's: All Sportbike Track Time events have a $5.00 per day gate fee for all persons 16 years of age and up including all track day riders.
and the link: http://www.sportbiketracktime.biz/Corporategroup.aspx

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post #24 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-14-2010, 12:32 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RSVMillenian View Post
Let me get this straight:

You didn't read the STT website before you signed up? If you did it is clealy spelled out there. Many people miss that.

$15 late fee is normal and it should be as someone explained earlier.
$5 gate fee is something a track charges. Other orgs may incorporate the cost into the track day fee but STT does not.

It seems that you just wanted to bitch about something. Instead you should thank STT for organizing a no membership required event. So there you go. Next time register on time and leave the f-ing tears at home. Track riding aint for little girls (unless you are a little girl)
Did you even read my post? I started out with thanking them. I'm by no means ungrateful for their services. Look at their post for the weekend. It's obviously false advertisement being posted within the 14 day late period and that fee is not being disclosed ahead of time. Please show me where it says anywhere on this page that there is a $5 track fee? \

Sorry I work hard for my money and don't have some ridiculous high paying salary that allows me to buy an Aprilia and not have to budget my track day schedule and expenses. I know all I was asking for was your opinion but in addition to that please remove the stick from your ass.

-Myles-
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post #25 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-14-2010, 12:32 PM
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post #26 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-14-2010, 12:41 PM
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STT has always had a $5 gate fee. I'm not privy to the details of the arrangement, or why it's there, but I was paying $5 entry 5 years ago with them. I don't know why this is a new issue for people.

There has always been a $15 late fee/early sign up bonus. Sometimes this is waived, sometimes not, it's best to ask in advance. As mentioned, if there wasn't a late fee, there would be no incentive to sign up early, and most orgs charge more the day of the event.

The 2-up riders have to get special permission to ride during novice. If they made you uncomfortable, or you felt they were causing problems in the novice session, you should talk to the event director the day of the event. They can't do anything to fix the problem after the fact. It's understandable that when you've had one set of rules for a day, that someone suddenly doing something different can spook new riders, and while that two-up rider is probably very comfortable, and experienced, and can pass anywhere, they might not have been aware that they were causing a problem.

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post #27 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-14-2010, 12:46 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truckstop View Post
STT has always had a $5 gate fee. I'm not privy to the details of the arrangement, or why it's there, but I was paying $5 entry 5 years ago with them. I don't know why this is a new issue for people.

There has always been a $15 late fee/early sign up bonus. Sometimes this is waived, sometimes not, it's best to ask in advance. As mentioned, if there wasn't a late fee, there would be no incentive to sign up early, and most orgs charge more the day of the event.

The 2-up riders have to get special permission to ride during novice. If they made you uncomfortable, or you felt they were causing problems in the novice session, you should talk to the event director the day of the event. They can't do anything to fix the problem after the fact. It's understandable that when you've had one set of rules for a day, that someone suddenly doing something different can spook new riders, and while that two-up rider is probably very comfortable, and experienced, and can pass anywhere, they might not have been aware that they were causing a problem.
This was my first day with STT so I was unaware of a gate fee. I'm pretty sure I was charged a late fee with Nesba last year, but I had no problem with it because it was disclosed. All I'm saying is next time you post a $110 track day special don't post it within the 14 day late period (let alone 10 days before the track day) and continue to call it a $110 special. Just be up front and say the day will cost you $125.

As for the 2up rider I was completely unaware. And if they're aloud to to pass in the turns where regular novice riders are not, why wouldn't they just toss them out in "I"? And I did mention something to the CR after the session, just wanted to see what you guys thought.

I'm really not trying to bitch, I'm just trying to straighten the situation out for myself.

-Myles-
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post #28 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-14-2010, 12:48 PM
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This should be in the STT forum.

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post #29 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-14-2010, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myles View Post
Please show me where it says anywhere on this page that there is a $5 track fee?
It doesn't show group rules, equipment requirements, or company policies on that page either. I get that it would have been nice to know ahead of time, so you were prepared, as is the common complaint, but I wouldn't expect them to note "$5 gate fee" on every page of the site when it's clearly stated on the policy page. The page you link to is to purchase the track day, nothing else. They don't charge the $5 up front because the gate fee is for everyone who goes through the gate at the event, including spectators.

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post #30 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-14-2010, 12:51 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrock View Post
This should be in the STT forum.
I purposely didn't post it there because I wanted it to get more exposure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by truckstop View Post
It doesn't show group rules, equipment requirements, or company policies on that page either. I get that it would have been nice to know ahead of time, so you were prepared, as is the common complaint, but I wouldn't expect them to note "$5 gate fee" on every page of the site when it's clearly stated on the policy page. The page you link to is to purchase the track day, nothing else. They don't charge the $5 up front because the gate fee is for everyone who goes through the gate at the event, including spectators.
Fosho, point proven. I just figured things would be simplified and you'd pay for everything up front.

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