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post #121 of 146 (permalink) Old 03-26-2009, 04:10 PM
I'd rather be railing :)
 
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I'm more on Wink's side here, but I see the slippery slope argument.

Looks to me like government here in the US wants to get the results they want (ex: increased public safety and well-being) through means of controlling the citizen's choice rather than seeing a need to provide better education (like MSF, etc.) and training programs (graduated licenses), but I guess it's easier for them to pass laws than create these programs. Yes, these programs might cost more money, but you'd have a better relationship between citizens and government and a healthier, smarter population.

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post #122 of 146 (permalink) Old 03-26-2009, 04:17 PM
You got the talkin' done
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wink View Post
Who was it that wore a helmet drinking at the bar? What movie was that?
Easy Rider.


Fulcrum effect - ABATE people, if true, how come Shinya Nakano's neck wasn't broken after he tumbled at hit his head 7 or 8 times at around 180 MPH?

Someone post the youtube video link to that crash and I want someone from ABATE to explain the Fulcrum effect and why it didn't apply in that crash.

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post #123 of 146 (permalink) Old 03-26-2009, 04:19 PM
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'controlling the citizen's choice'

BINGO! Tell em what he's won Johnny...

What if I told you insane was working fifty hours a week in some office for fifty years at the end of which they tell you to piss off; ending up in some retirement village hoping to die before suffering the indignity of trying to make it to the toilet on time? Wouldn't you consider that to be insane?
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post #124 of 146 (permalink) Old 03-26-2009, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wink View Post
And for some reason you think that people that do that CARE if you have a helmet on?

I have had that happen to me many times with AND without a helmet on in both helmet law states and non-helmet law states.
The difference is that they do it because you are breaking the law.
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post #125 of 146 (permalink) Old 03-26-2009, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrock View Post
Easy Rider.


Fulcrum effect - ABATE people, if true, how come Shinya Nakano's neck wasn't broken after he tumbled at hit his head 7 or 8 times at around 180 MPH?

Someone post the youtube video link to that crash and I want someone from ABATE to explain the Fulcrum effect and why it didn't apply in that crash.
I find that argument from them to be completely ludicrous and have never supported it.

I support the right to choice.

I don't agree with abortion.. but I support the right to choose.
Freedom trumps me pushing my personal beliefs on others.

BTW if I remember correctly he was going 206mph when he crashed... If we are thinking about the same accident.. I can still see the 5 second video clip of his head flop flop smack slopping off the ground..
I was amazed he was ok.. That was horrible

Last edited by iamnotgreg; 03-26-2009 at 05:49 PM.
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post #126 of 146 (permalink) Old 03-26-2009, 06:31 PM
You got the talkin' done
 
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Originally Posted by gconsier View Post
I don't agree with abortion.. but I support the right to choose.
A legal abortion preformed by a licensed doctor in a regulated clinic or hospital doesn't cost me a lot as a tax payer or an insurance payer. An illegal abortion preformed in a back room somewhere most likely will because it will be done by a shady doctor with no license and regulation.

If you ain't with us, then it's just bad news.

Last edited by jrock; 03-26-2009 at 06:34 PM.
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post #127 of 146 (permalink) Old 03-26-2009, 06:50 PM
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A legal abortion preformed by a licensed doctor in a regulated clinic or hospital doesn't cost me a lot as a tax payer or an insurance payer. An illegal abortion preformed in a back room somewhere most likely will because it will be done by a shady doctor with no license and regulation.
This isn't about cost.
Or at least for us it shouldn't be. I pay my insurance.. My health insurance, my bike insurance, my umbrella insurance, my house insurace, my car insurance (on every car and vehicle I own... even tho i can only ride one at a time... they give 10% if you insure a bunch.. nice) I pay for lots of insurance... If I get hurt.. I feel the pain or take the risk...

So you see this as insurance companies using their rights as large corporations to dictate policy and legislate reduced risk for all citizens, not just their policy holders (they tried that.. and it got shot down) ... so now they are going after everyone.. To reduce their risk and costs...

This is about our freedom as Americans to choose to do what we wish.
An abortion is about a womans right to choose to do what she wishes with her body.. Abortions are not legal because backroom ones will happen.. THe movement was about a right for a woman to choose...

To be honest.. If I was the insurance I would be working to ban those crazy suicycles and donorcycles.. Wearing a helmet makes to .. what .. 20% .. 30% safer? (statistically speaking) ... Not riding a motorcycle makes you.. 2,000 -- 3000% safer.. Actually i think the figure may be higher, when compared to cars.

So why not ban the bikes? Why does someone need just shy of 200hp on a vehicle that weighs 400lbs? They don't. It is unsafe to them and unsafe to little Billy trying to play in the street as the out of control motorcycle comes flying down the street at him.. Really Jrock.. Man.. THINK OF THE CHILDREN!~

rights aren't taken all at once.. they are stripped away a little at a time.
that is how it is done.

Don't be as blind a democrat as to agree with each and every policy they have as some of the blind republican types you clash with on here so often...

Open your eyes and look at whats good for you and for us and for society as a whole. Not some individual interest.

Once this hurdle is gone.. They are moving to the next. It is a fact.
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post #128 of 146 (permalink) Old 03-26-2009, 06:56 PM
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post #129 of 146 (permalink) Old 03-26-2009, 06:57 PM
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soooooo when are they voting on this Helmet dealio? Need to know if I should start saving up for a new one. if I'm gonna have to wear it 100% of the time I want a new one.




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post #130 of 146 (permalink) Old 03-26-2009, 07:04 PM
You got the talkin' done
 
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This whole slippery slop domino effect thing is really over the top.

And if you are so worried about your "freedoms", I think there are a lot of other causes out there that deserve your energy.

And don't assume you know where my political interests are centered based on some arguments I have with people on this site.

If you ain't with us, then it's just bad news.

Last edited by jrock; 03-26-2009 at 07:07 PM.
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post #131 of 146 (permalink) Old 03-26-2009, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrock View Post
This whole slippery slop domino effect thing is really over the top.

And if you are so worried about your "freedoms", I think there are a lot of other causes out there that deserve your energy.
It is not over the top
It is how everything in the world works
Life builds on top of itse;lf
Next gen computers are faster
Next gen bikes are faster
Parking meter rates go up
Red light camera
Speeding camera
License camera ?

Depending on how you look at it.. It is an improvement.
A lot of the rich old types who are in politics do not like motorcycles
and they really HATE crotch rockets (don't ask why.. but I know too many rich old crotch rocket hating types)

It's not a conspiracy theory to be observant
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post #132 of 146 (permalink) Old 03-26-2009, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrock View Post
This whole slippery slop domino effect thing is really over the top.

And if you are so worried about your "freedoms", I think there are a lot of other causes out there that deserve your energy.
everyyear they make new laws, why cause they got nothing better to do. whens the last time congress went in sessions and said, "meh, screw this everythings fine, we dont need to control the people any more than we already do..)




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post #133 of 146 (permalink) Old 03-26-2009, 07:08 PM
You got the talkin' done
 
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everyyear they make new laws, why cause they got nothing better to do. whens the last time congress went in sessions and said, "meh, screw this everythings fine, we dont need to control the people any more than we already do..)
No one wants to work themselves out of a job. Look at CARB.

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post #134 of 146 (permalink) Old 03-26-2009, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by gconsier View Post
THINK OF THE CHILDREN!~
And this will be their weapon to use to scare you all into everything.
Remember the 'chip yer kids' thing? We already see it in all adopted shelter animals.

What if I told you insane was working fifty hours a week in some office for fifty years at the end of which they tell you to piss off; ending up in some retirement village hoping to die before suffering the indignity of trying to make it to the toilet on time? Wouldn't you consider that to be insane?
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post #135 of 146 (permalink) Old 03-26-2009, 07:32 PM
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To the pro-helmet people:

If you want to make sure everyone understands the need to wear a helmet, HERE is the place to do it. Convince them. Have squid-bashing threads. Show pictures of what happens when people don't wear it, so on and so forth.

Keep the freakin' gov't out of it.

Let Darwin do his job. Too stupid to wear it, then they won't be passing on too many of that stupid gene, now will they?

Seriously, if someone wants to drink themselves to death, fine. (so long as it doesn't hurt anyone else)
if someone wants to pull the plug on a life they hate, fine.
If someone wants to eat fatty food and not exercise until they have a heart attack, fine.

And its none of yours or my business to force it on them.

The last thing we need is more of one group of people forcing their way on another group as far as what to do with their time, money or body.


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post #136 of 146 (permalink) Old 03-26-2009, 09:14 PM
You got the talkin' done
 
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Rob, how many times have you seen Good Will Hunting?

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post #137 of 146 (permalink) Old 03-26-2009, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrock View Post
Rob, how many times have you seen Good Will Hunting?
once or twice. why?

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post #138 of 146 (permalink) Old 03-26-2009, 10:02 PM
 
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Seriously, if someone wants to drink themselves to death, fine. (so long as it doesn't hurt anyone else)
if someone wants to pull the plug on a life they hate, fine.
If someone wants to eat fatty food and not exercise until they have a heart attack, fine.
+1

-Cap
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post #139 of 146 (permalink) Old 04-01-2009, 11:23 PM
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It's finally over and here's the tally.


Senate Bill No. 1351
THIRD READING
Apr 01, 2009
14 YEAS 42 NAYS 1 PRESENT

The bill was defeated in whole by ABATE members, as stated in the Senate today at about 5:30pm. We had 42 friends with us this day, all of our members did their jobs VERY well.

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post #140 of 146 (permalink) Old 04-01-2009, 11:33 PM
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Bummer, maybe we'll win next time.

That sucks, I guess more dead riders coming.

Guess we'll have to look up the list of 42 folks to vote against next round.

===========
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post #141 of 146 (permalink) Old 04-01-2009, 11:40 PM
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Bummer, maybe we'll win next time.

That sucks, I guess more dead riders coming.

Guess we'll have to look up the list of 42 folks to vote against next round.
Way to take it like a man
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post #142 of 146 (permalink) Old 04-01-2009, 11:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wink View Post
bummer, maybe we'll win next time.

That sucks, i guess more dead riders coming.

guess we'll have to look up the list of 42 folks to vote against next round.
+1

A.B.A.T.E., while you guys were working against a potentially beneficial ruling to improve safety and survivability of your membership what was being done against a definately harmful peice of legistaion banning youth offroad vehicles?

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post #143 of 146 (permalink) Old 04-02-2009, 08:16 AM
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So this means I can still let my pony tail flow in the wind while I go from bar to bar?
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post #144 of 146 (permalink) Old 04-03-2009, 03:18 PM
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So this means I can still let my pony tail flow in the wind while I go from bar to bar?
Good thing ya didn't have ta take a hole saw to yer helmet, huh?

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post #145 of 146 (permalink) Old 04-03-2009, 03:22 PM
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Now that would be funny!

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post #146 of 146 (permalink) Old 04-03-2009, 03:33 PM
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Good thing ya didn't have ta take a hole saw to yer helmet, huh?
Barry Sheene drilled a hole in the chin bar of his race helmet so he could have a smoke before the race.

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