My brakes dont work (soft pedal, 25% brake force) - Chicagoland Sportbikes
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post #1 of 38 (permalink) Old 02-12-2013, 02:30 PM Thread Starter
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My brakes dont work (soft pedal, 25% brake force)

This is for my 2002 Nissan Xterra with the 3.3L supercharged engine.

Brake system was working perfectly fine. I changed the front pads and all of a sudden the pedal is soft, goes all the way to the floor and has to be pumped a few times to get enough pressure to stop the truck. The hydraulics were not opened up. Simple pad replacement.

Since then I have done the following:

bled the system to try to remove air using the 2 person method
bled the system with a vacuum pump
replaced the master cylinder
bled the entire system with a vacuum pump
replaced both front calipers.
bled the system with 2 person method
bled the system with vacuum pump.



The front passanger side is scraping the pads against the rotor enough to keep it clean. The front driver side is so inoperable the rotor remains rusty as if it has been sitting for months even after driving a good distance and using the brakes to stop the truck several times.

There are zero visible leaks in the system and over a period of ~3 months the fluid level has not dropped.

I am at a loss at this point.

what am i missing?

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post #2 of 38 (permalink) Old 02-12-2013, 02:43 PM
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post #3 of 38 (permalink) Old 02-12-2013, 02:46 PM Thread Starter
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with a diesel?

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post #4 of 38 (permalink) Old 02-12-2013, 02:52 PM
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On your break issue. Man, have no clue looks like you did everything.

Except the break booster.



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post #5 of 38 (permalink) Old 02-12-2013, 02:56 PM
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Did you take the break fluid cap off so when you used a C-vise to push in the caliper pistons the fluid and pressure had somewhere to go.
IE the master cylinder.



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post #6 of 38 (permalink) Old 02-12-2013, 03:08 PM Thread Starter
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I don't remember. this was quite some time ago by now.

would have assumed replacing the master would have solved it if i botched the original?

but thats just making a guess as im out of ideas.

I do have a known good brake booster coming, because, fuck it why not at this point?

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post #7 of 38 (permalink) Old 02-12-2013, 03:17 PM
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No kidding right.

Hope ya figure it out or if anything maybe send (Ryan) a pm to hear his thoughts.



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post #8 of 38 (permalink) Old 02-12-2013, 03:23 PM
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After replacing front calipers did you bleed the whole system front and rear?

Have you bleed the whole system?

Brake booster would be bad via a vacuum test or if you hear air hissing sound when stepping on brake pedal.

Some cars/ truck have an order in which you are to bleed the brakes, do you know if your truck requires?

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post #9 of 38 (permalink) Old 02-12-2013, 03:35 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRSMAIL View Post
After replacing front calipers did you bleed the whole system front and rear?

Yes I did.

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Originally Posted by JRSMAIL View Post
Have you bleed the whole system?
Yes every time was rear, front, and ABS.

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Originally Posted by JRSMAIL View Post
Brake booster would be bad via a vacuum test or if you hear air hissing sound when stepping on brake pedal.
Ya know, I do recall hearing a bit of a seeping sound when my helper monkey was pushing the pedal and I was standing near the booster/master.

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Some cars/ truck have an order in which you are to bleed the brakes, do you know if your truck requires?
I have not found anything that says there is a specific order. I have been using farthest to closest to the master cylinder order. RR, LR, RF, LF, ABS

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post #10 of 38 (permalink) Old 02-12-2013, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by mac11 View Post

Ya know, I do recall hearing a bit of a seeping sound when my helper monkey was pushing the pedal and I was standing near the booster/master.
Check this out. It may sound like air rushing in or on the firewall. Should happen when depressing brake pedal and car running.

It will also action as if you have non-power brakes while trying to stop vehicle.

Also make sure the vacuum hose going to it is not cracked and attached as you may have bumped it taking cap off to re-fill.


PS I never bleed the ABS as it is bleed when bleeding the brakes normally..

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post #11 of 38 (permalink) Old 02-12-2013, 04:07 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JRSMAIL View Post
Check this out. It may sound like air rushing in or on the firewall. Should happen when depressing brake pedal and car running.

It will also action as if you have non-power brakes while trying to stop vehicle. ..
I have just the opposite problem. my pedal is soft, way to easy to press and can go to the floorboard.

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Also make sure the vacuum hose going to it is not cracked and attached as you may have bumped it taking cap off to re-fill...
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PS I never bleed the ABS as it is bleed when bleeding the brakes normally..
yea i know i just got to the point where i was out of ideas and trying to get the system compleyely void of air.

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post #12 of 38 (permalink) Old 02-12-2013, 04:20 PM
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Master cyl could be leaking internally as well.

After that I'm out of ideas as long as you have no leaks, it is a sealed system.

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post #13 of 38 (permalink) Old 02-12-2013, 04:36 PM Thread Starter
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The original master didn't appear to be leaking when I replaced it. I don't want to start assuming new parts are bad when swapping them on made no change in system performance and old parts did not show sign of failure.

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post #14 of 38 (permalink) Old 02-12-2013, 08:55 PM

 
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Seems all the bases have been touched.

You may have to run the bases one more time.

Have you replaced the bleeder nipples?Some times you can wrap them with teflon and it will help.

I might lever the pedel and let it sit over night.

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post #15 of 38 (permalink) Old 02-12-2013, 08:58 PM

 
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Oh just thought of something.

Does the rear have drums?

If so they maybe out of adjust using more than their fair share of pedal.

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post #16 of 38 (permalink) Old 02-12-2013, 09:02 PM
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Aren't the Xterra's 4 wheel disk?

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post #17 of 38 (permalink) Old 02-12-2013, 09:20 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Oh just thought of something.

Does the rear have drums?

If so they maybe out of adjust using more than their fair share of pedal.
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Aren't the Xterra's 4 wheel disk?
05+ xterra (2nd gen) are 4 wheel disk

1st gen, like my 02, are rear drums.

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post #18 of 38 (permalink) Old 02-12-2013, 09:42 PM Thread Starter
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I'm too young to know anything more about drum brakes than i don't want to know about drum brakes.

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post #19 of 38 (permalink) Old 02-12-2013, 10:05 PM
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post #20 of 38 (permalink) Old 02-12-2013, 10:44 PM

 
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Ok that's it then you may be able to turn the gadget through a hole in the backing plate.


I would think a look in there to make sure the adjusting ratchet works , would serve you well.

Advance the shoes or better yet replace them. then adjust them till you can feel them rub.

Good luck

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Last edited by resurrection; 02-12-2013 at 10:49 PM.
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post #21 of 38 (permalink) Old 02-12-2013, 10:48 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Ok that's it then you may be able to turn the gadget through a hole in the backing plate.


I would think a look in there to make sure the adjust ratchet works well, would serve you well.

Advance the shoes or better yet replace them. then adjust them till you can feel them rub.

Good luck
Thanks Gus!

Ill have a look at them when the sun comes up.

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post #22 of 38 (permalink) Old 02-13-2013, 07:19 AM
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If anything youtube it for your model truck

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post #23 of 38 (permalink) Old 02-17-2013, 04:47 AM
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you know how to bled a master cylinder?
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post #24 of 38 (permalink) Old 02-18-2013, 11:25 AM
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In your post, you said one of the front calipers was leaving a rusty rotor.

Is the caliper jammed? While that doesn't explain the mushy pedal, having a caliper jammed and not working is a problem to be addressed.

I'd check it and make sure the piston is not in the caliper crooked or something.

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post #25 of 38 (permalink) Old 02-19-2013, 10:22 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by resurrection View Post
Ok that's it then you may be able to turn the gadget through a hole in the backing plate.


I would think a look in there to make sure the adjusting ratchet works , would serve you well.

Advance the shoes or better yet replace them. then adjust them till you can feel them rub.

Good luck
This!


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post #26 of 38 (permalink) Old 02-19-2013, 11:40 AM
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So it was the rear drums all along?

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post #27 of 38 (permalink) Old 02-19-2013, 11:56 AM Thread Starter
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Sure was. Spun the adjuster until I got a bit of drag on both sides, pumped up the pedal and it stayed firm. Brakes work as they used to after that.

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post #28 of 38 (permalink) Old 02-19-2013, 12:08 PM
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^ you never took the play out the rear? Lol
Lesson learned I hope.



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post #29 of 38 (permalink) Old 02-19-2013, 12:25 PM
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^ you never took the play out the rear? Lol
Lesson learned I hope.
Right I assumed that was checked.

They may or should be self - adjusting, either by driving backwards and stopping hard or some models using the e-brake. Note not always the case.

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post #30 of 38 (permalink) Old 02-19-2013, 12:25 PM

 
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You could have a damaged line from the on one of the front calabers. Could look fine on the outsdie but be colapsed on the inside. Did not notice where you checked or replaced those and seeing how this started when just changing the pads changed the pedal.

Also aggree on the adjustment of the back brakes and have to rebleed the system seeing you have done so much already.

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