Lance Armstrong will be stripped of seven Tour de France titles and banned for life - Chicagoland Sportbikes
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post #1 of 527 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 03:27 AM Thread Starter
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Lance Armstrong will be stripped of seven Tour de France titles and banned for life

Lance Armstrong will be stripped of seven Tour de France titles, given lifetime ban from Olympics as he drops appeal of doping charges
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/mo...#ixzz24RyYRA8D


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post #2 of 527 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 06:21 AM
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Yes, just read that and it sucks to hear at the same time we will never know the truth..

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post #3 of 527 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 07:07 AM
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He will always be the greatest of all time. Now that he's banned from damn near everything he'll probably start showing up at local 5Ks so I better start training.

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post #4 of 527 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 07:30 AM
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I don't get it. Does this body actually have the authority to strip him of his titles? Also where's the proof?

I wish Lance wouldn't give up and would fight this.

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post #5 of 527 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 08:16 AM
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Lance tried to fight this through the real legal system claiming the USADA's process does not allow for constitutional due process. After reading about this I have to agree with Lance on that. The courts however felt that Lance didn't have a case and dismissed it. The problem with fighting it through USADA is that there is not true due process. You don't have disclosure. You can't interview witnesses prior to a hearing. Showing up to fight it in front of USADA basically involves them presenting their evidence and passing judgement. I'll state up front that I am a Lance fan. Still if he did dope I have no issue with him being punished. I will say that USADA does seem to have a compelling case if the stories in the news are true. Now it seems that they used coercion and paybacks to get some of the witnesses to come forward. If you read some of the reports USADA supposedly has riders such as Levi L., George H., Christian V., David Z., and Jonathan V., all lined up to say that they were all part of a mass doping conspiracy. Now typically when riders are found out to have doped they are subject to two year bans as first offenders. If the reports are true these folks will be getting a slap on the wrist. The reports say 6 month bans that they get to start at the end of the season. Many of these riders are currently racing in the race in Colorado. So it seems like a big witch hunt not to root out doping in the sport but just to get Lance at all costs. Some of the team doctors from that time were also implicated in the mess. USADA likes to claim that these doctors have accepted their bans and admitted their compliance in the conspiracy. In follow up interviews with the doctors one cited the fact that USADA wanted to interview him prior to this with the specific goal of the interview to get him to give up Lance. That doctor told them to shove it and that he was not aware of any doping. The others simply didn't care to fight it. They are based in Europe and if they want to continue working in the sport they can find other non US teams etc. A ban for USADA means nothing to them. They didn't care to spend the money to come over here for a trumped up hearing that they had no hope of winning anyway because of the lack of due process. Now one of these doctors has been known to help riders dope. He was not employed by the team but had worked with Lance. As further evidence USADA also claims to have his blood test results for several years that include out of competition doping tests. Now Lance has never tested positive in competition to this point in time. USADA is claiming that their reveiw of the testing results shows unusual inconsistencies that indicate that he doped. Some of the reports have stated that they show EPO use. I don't know how accurate these findings can be since I'm not an expert in doping and reading the results. What I find odd is that these test results have been available for years and just now USADA was able to put all the pieces together to find these inconsistencies???? Like I said I'm not an expert. I don't know if we will ever know for sure what USADA has if Lance doesn't show up but I don't think showing up would do much good. He really can't fight any evidence that they might present. Now I am all for getting doping out of sport but I do feel that USADA's process is not a good one. They are basically Judge and Jury.

There is a slew of articles on this topic at this site

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lanc...-usada-charges

At the bottom of this article are others on the topics that I mentioned.

I will say that the entire sport of cycling is a joke. If you strip Lance of his tour titles who do you give them too. Jan U. He was banned for doping and it was thought that he doped all along. Ivan B. Also banned. Marco P also banned. I mean just about all of the podium finishers during the years that Lance won had been banned at one time or another with the possible exception of Andrea Kloden who was on a team that was ripe with doping but he himself has never been busted. So the results in the sport are a joke and have been for years. The sports greatest rider Eddie M. was kicked out of the Giro one year for doping.
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post #6 of 527 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 08:29 AM
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This is an attack against Lance, not doping. And it's the worst thing for cycling, especially so long after his races. It's just dumb now. But I'll say this, if you are going to a gun fight, even though guns are banned, you better have a gun.

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post #7 of 527 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 08:40 AM
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So what does this mean for the little yellow rubber band thingies that everyone wore for about a day?

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post #8 of 527 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 08:45 AM
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I think he's sold literally over a million of those things.

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post #9 of 527 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 08:52 AM
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I heard he doesnt even have cancer and he made that up to score sympathy pussy.




/he's a badass and jealous haters want to bring him down cause they can't ride and have no game.

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post #10 of 527 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 09:09 AM
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Rubbish.

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post #11 of 527 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 09:26 AM
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I think he's sold literally over a million of those things.
I think it's over 80 million of them.

Sad to see it all go down like this. I wouldn't be surprised if he was part of it, but much like steroids in baseball, they crucify participants years later when the ruling body did nothing at the time to control it.

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post #12 of 527 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 09:44 AM
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post #13 of 527 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 09:46 AM
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post #14 of 527 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 09:50 AM
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post #15 of 527 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 10:56 AM
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He will always be the greatest of all time.
Eddy Merckx!

Armstrong won TDF's
Merckx won everything.
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post #16 of 527 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 11:22 AM
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I heard he doesnt even have cancer and he made that up to score sympathy pussy.



that one nut wonder banged sheryl crow

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post #17 of 527 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 11:25 AM
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Eddy was the greatest of all time. I would say that cycling has changed since the days when Eddy raced to when Lance raced. More importance now being placed on the Tour De France and riders focusing all their prep on that race.

Eddy did win everything.

Most career victories by a professional cyclist: 525.
Most victories in one season: 54.
Most stage victories in the Tour de France: 34.
Most stage victories in one Tour de France: 8, in 1970 and 1974 (shared with Charles Pélissier in 1930 and Freddy Maertens in 1976).
Most days with the yellow jersey in the Tour de France: 96.
The only cyclist to have won the general classification, points classification and mountains classification in the same Tour de France (1969).
Most victories in classics: 28.
Most victories in one single classic: 7 (in Milan – San Remo).
Most victories in Grand Tours: 11

His competitors were often quoted as saying that if Eddy showed up we all knew we were racing for second place.

Eddy also tested positive 3 times.

Up to what is known now Lance the most tested athlete in history has never "tested" positive.
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post #18 of 527 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 11:56 AM
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So what does this mean for the little yellow rubber band thingies that everyone wore for about a day?
Lots of folks still wear those.

It is a good question though. What effect will this all have on his efforts to raise money for the fight on cancer????
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post #19 of 527 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 11:58 AM
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looks like that board has already stripped the titles. They wasted no time.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports...c41_story.html

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post #20 of 527 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 12:16 PM
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Roman and I were coming back from Geo's one day and were listening to a Talk Show on the radio that had Armstrong's old training parter and Team partner (name escapes me at the moment) on and he admitted to taking EPDs and basically said "Lance and I shared everything and I watched him do everything I did but I could not live with the lie and had to come clean" - If Lance has nothing to hide and was legit in his (7) title wins, why woulf you NOT fight it?


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post #21 of 527 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 01:23 PM
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It's been 3 or 4 years since his last race. And these fuckers have nothing. Proof is in the dope test. And he's been fighting it during his whole time racing. I'd file a lawsuit of epic amounts. Not a single test ever showed any proof. Welcome to America. Innocent until proven guilty. Oh wait. That's not right according to these shitheads

...plus my gf was with me saying "omg slow down, slow down" and I was thinking "Lose annoying squalk box in passenger seat, afford more mods and have less weight in the car and on the back of the bike"...so i dumped her and I'm single again as usual...HERE KITTY KITTY!!!
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post #22 of 527 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 01:40 PM
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I'd file a lawsuit of epic amounts. Not a single test ever showed any proof. Welcome to America. Innocent until proven guilty. Oh wait.
You guys a are jumping too early. Don't you think Lance and his team of top attorneys didn't think about all possible avenues including a "lawsuit of epic amounts"?

I personally believe he was using, and that he got cornered and decided not to pursue further actions and needs to salvage as much as possible.

I am sorry but not all fairytales have a happy ending. All of his competitors were banned for dopping, connect the dots.

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post #23 of 527 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 08:23 PM
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Roman and I were coming back from Geo's one day and were listening to a Talk Show on the radio that had Armstrong's old training parter and Team partner (name escapes me at the moment) on and he admitted to taking EPDs and basically said "Lance and I shared everything and I watched him do everything I did but I could not live with the lie and had to come clean" - If Lance has nothing to hide and was legit in his (7) title wins, why woulf you NOT fight it?


/fishy
I'll do my best to summarize this situation and why Lance decided not to go before the USADA arbitration hearing. I have mentioned I'm a Lance fan.
I have good friends that know Lance and Johan Bruyneel personally. I have been following cycling much longer than Lance's emergence on the scene.
Going back prior to Greg Lemond winning his first tour. I'm more of a Greg Lemond fan and the two of them have been at odds over the Lance doping situation for years.

Why Lance decided not to appear
Lance has been fighing doping charges for years. In the past he has always won these battles in real courts of Law. About 2 years ago the US Justice department started an indepth investigation into Lance and the USPS team on doping and anti trust violations. Of course they spent millions in taxpayers dollars to do it. The same guy that did the Balco Barry Bonds investigation investigated Lance. They eventually dropped the case citing a lack of evidence that could prove their case in a real court of law. A court of law where the burden of proof is higher than the USADA process. That is the key to this current situation. USADA HAS A MUCH DIFFERENT PROCESSS. Now USADA enters into this. With the USADA process they gather their evidence and witnesses. Once an athlete is charged you have the option of trying to fight it in front of a board of USADA Arbitrators. The Arbitrators are hand picked by USADA. USADA presents all the evidence that they have. They basically act as prosecutor judge and jury. You do not have any due process rights like in a real court of law. You do not have full disclosure of the evidence against you. You cannot interview witnesses prior to your arbitration hearing. So Lance did file a federal lawsuit based on the fact that USADA does not have due process. The suit was recently dismissed in Federal court but the judge that dismissed it did agree with Lance and his legal team on several of the items that they raised. In the end the judge felt that USADA has juristiction because this is what athlete's agree to prior to participating in Olympic style sports. Most athletes probably never envision that they will be subjected to such a witch hunt hearing. Out of all the cases that USADA has brought to arbitration only 2 were overturned out of hundreds. I forget the exact numbers but your odds are not good. So it was basically a no win situation for Lance to go to the hearing. I do believe that Lance's statement and the followup statement from his legal team do provide a good synopsis of the problems in going to the USADA hearing.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lanc...ement-on-usada

Now do I think he doped?

Most everyone that competes in cycling dopes. Most all of the other podium finishers during Lance's record run has been found to be a doper at one time or another. Marco Pantani. Jan Ullrich, Alex Zulle Ivan Basso.the list goes on and on. The reports that USADA leaked to the press indicate that they had 10 ex teammates claiming and providing statements that they were all a part of a doping consipricy with Lance involved. In the past two ex teammates had provided similar statements. Floyd Landis and Tyler Hamilton. Both of these riders were found to be dopers and gave statements about Lance after they themselves were caught. They were busted after they left Lances team. So people with axes to grind who were admitted dopers themselves and who never tested positive when they were part of Lance's teams. Credible witnesses? You decide. Once Floyd was caught he claimed innocence for years and bliked many who contributed to his legal defense only to come clean years later and admit to doping. Now with these new reports some of the names leaked include riders that have been long time friends of Lance. Riders who were never caught doping themselves. The names mentioned include Levi Leipheimer, George Hincape, Christian Vandevelde, (a Chicago area native) Jonathan Vaughters (now retired but the Director Spotiff of team Garmin). Now these folks were also offered deals to provide these statements so in a real court of law a good lawyer would probably pick them apart. These ex teammates if the stories are true are getting slap on the wrist penalties. 6 month bans after the season ends. Not the normal two year bans for first time offenders. They were also not banned immediately as normally happens. Allowed to race through the end of this year. Many are currently racing in Colorado right now. So of the reports are true they were offered deals in exchange for their statements and they will be back racing early next year. Many are older and may retire. George Hincape is retiring. It is interesting to note that three people already charged have already not appeared before the USADA arbitration process. USADA likes to point to that as further evidence of an admission of guilt. One of these doctors is known to have aided dopers in the past but was not part of the USPS team. Lance was seeing him on the side for what he claims was training improvements. One former team doctor that was part of the three who had also not appeared stated in an interview that USADA had contacted him prior to his being charged and offered him a deal to provide testimony against Lance. He refused. He said that he was not aware of any doping. So he basically told them to fuck off. Now these doctors can still do what they want. They just can't be associated with a US team so they had no real interest in coming to the US spending their own time and money to try to fight the USADA process. USADA is supposed to also have all of his blood test going back for years. These would include both in competition and out of competition testing. It is important to note that in all of these tests he has never tested positive in the past for PED's. USADA is claiming that their analysis of the blood test results over the course of years shows abnormal anamolies consistent with drug use. I'm not a blood doping expert and haven't seen the results so I have no idea if there is anything to that evidence or not. I believe the more damming evidence would be in the ex teammates statements and admissions ganered themselves through coercion and payoffs of lesser punishments.

Will he actually be stripped of his 7 TDF titles?

Well USADA claims to have already done just that with their announcements today.
The UCI (Union Cycliste Internationale) pro cylings international governing body is claiming ulitmate authority over the matter so the actual stripping of his 7 TDF wins is still in question. US cycling is siding with the UCI on the matter. WADA is siding with USADA. ASO the French organization the runs the Tour De France is waiting to see what happens and if this will go to CAS.
(Court of Arbitration of Sport). What we basically have here with all of these governing bodies is a true cluster fuck.

Now there are reports that Johan Brueyneel is still planning on appearing before the USADA arbitration process. The word that I have from my friends is that he will not attend.
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post #24 of 527 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 09:30 PM
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fuck him, hope anyone caught doping loses it as well.

If you cant do it as a normal human you are nothing short of plugging in a piece of technology and motorbiking it the rest of the way.
Its turned into who can dope the most and live.

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post #25 of 527 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 10:19 PM
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Cycling is only second to track and field in cheating. If you're at the top level of either sport, there's approximately a 94.73% chance you're doping.

There should be no second chances, no fines, suspensions or hand slaps. You get caught, you get banned for life, period.

Without commenting specifically on Armstrong's case, this is how I think it should be, without question.

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post #26 of 527 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 10:41 PM
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Cycling is only second to track and field in cheating. If you're at the top level of either sport, there's approximately a 94.73% chance you're doping.

There should be no second chances, no fines, suspensions or hand slaps. You get caught, you get banned for life, period.

Without commenting specifically on Armstrong's case, this is how I think it should be, without question.

america doesnt give a crap

Convicted of animal abuse, no worries, come on back!

Spousal abuse, only means your a tough player!

I would love to see zero tolerence. These fucks wanna get paid they wont act like trash.
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post #27 of 527 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 10:43 PM
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Personal conduct violations are quite different than outright cheating at your given sport.

These assholes take the spot of others that would otherwise be in that position were it not for their cheating asses. THAT pisses me off.


Tom

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Originally Posted by Tacitus
In a state where corruption abounds, laws must be very numerous.
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post #28 of 527 (permalink) Old 08-25-2012, 05:11 AM
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Nice writeup Strek. That about covers it. USADA is their own entity, and you appeal their decision to THEM for consideration. How dumb is that? Their inevitable findings? "Mmm, nope, we still think we're right"

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post #29 of 527 (permalink) Old 08-25-2012, 11:18 AM Thread Starter
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Who can blame the guy for not appealing?
The News this morning said he was doing a smaller race and that NIKE is staying on as his sponsor.


Last edited by Ohfugit; 08-25-2012 at 11:22 AM.
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post #30 of 527 (permalink) Old 08-25-2012, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Ohfugit View Post
Who can blame the guy for not appealing?
The News this morning said he was doing a smallerrace and that NIKE is staying on as his sponsor.
He's a cash cow, why wouldn't they ya know?

Tom

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacitus
In a state where corruption abounds, laws must be very numerous.
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