How to bypass CL450 ignition? - Chicagoland Sportbikes
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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-07-2009, 02:47 AM Thread Starter
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How to bypass CL450 ignition?

When I picked up my CL450 last week, the ignition tumbler fell apart and all the pins fell out along with the little springs. Now when I put the tumbler in with the key, it just turns over and over and don't know where the "on" position is. I don't have a battery in it right now, I'm just trying to kick start it but without knowing if the ignition is on makes it kinda hard. I know it could probably just be replaced with another key/ignition switch, but I'm thinking about just putting in a toggle type switch and eliminating the whole ignition lock. That's to be determined, but I want to get the thing started. Does anyone know which wires to connect within the ignition switch to complete the "on" circuit and help me get this thing running?

Thanks!

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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-07-2009, 09:13 AM
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The pointed "key" pins are different lengths, but the follower "driver" pins are the same length an flat on the ends. Here's a link that may help you visualize what I'll be saying.

http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pin_tumbler_lock

Lay your key on the table. Put the key pins in the valleys of the key until all the pin tops line up. As shown in the link's lower left picture. Once you get them lined up, then this is the order they should be in the tumbler.

Put the key pins in the tumbler, then insert the driver pims, and then the drive springs. The springs are going to be the pain-in-the-butt part of this. There's usually a flat piece of metal that slides in above the springs to prevent them from falling out as they did. The hard part is holding the springs down as you slide the keeper over them.

Once it's all assembled, it should work. If not, then you may have some pins switched if their lengths are really close.

Just an idea here: If you leave ALL of the pins and springs out, then the key will turn the lock once it's re-assembled. This would let you operate the ignition for starting, and you could fix the lock later on.

Other than that, we'll need a wiring diagram to verify which wires need to be used for a hotwire method

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Last edited by stkr; 06-07-2009 at 09:22 AM.
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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-07-2009, 09:24 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the response. I was just getting ready to head over and work on that when I saw your post.

I don't have the springs, just the pins and they all look to be about the same anyways but i'll have to give those a second look. If I can't tell them apart, I'd have to go with your second idea...

However, when we put the tumbler in there and turned, it kept turning and turning and didn't stop in the ignition position so we couldn't tell what position meant what. Maybe my buddy didn't put it in right, i'll try it again but that's why I was looking for which wires I could jump between so I could guarantee myself that I had the ignition turned on.

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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-07-2009, 09:51 AM
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What year is it? Do you have link to an online manual?

The pins/springs are only there to keep the tumbler for turning the ignition if you don't have the correct key. If it's assembled correctly without the pins, then the tumbler should still operate the ignition switch. Hell, you should be able to operate the ignition switch without the tumbler by using a screwdriver, or needle-nose pliers. It just depends on how the tumbler engages with the switch assembly.

The ignitions are normally (Left -> Right): LOCK-ACC-OFF-ON

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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-07-2009, 11:00 AM
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Here's some wiring diagrams: I'm not sure if I'm looking at the right one.

http://oldmanhonda.com/MC/WiringDiag...ring.php#class

http://www.cmsnl.com/classic-honda-f...g_diagrams.php

It looks like all you should have to do is put a toggle switch between the Red and Black wires. This would be the BATT and IGN wires. The other two wires are TL1 and TL2 which are for the lights. I think your switch has three positions: OFF-POS1-POS2. [email protected] simply turns on your tail light as a parking light. POS1 connects BATT->IGN, and also TL1->TL2. Being an older bike, it probably has a separate steering head lock from the ignition cylinder.

Good Luck!

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Last edited by stkr; 06-07-2009 at 11:09 AM.
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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-08-2009, 08:34 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stkr View Post
Here's some wiring diagrams: I'm not sure if I'm looking at the right one.

http://oldmanhonda.com/MC/WiringDiag...ring.php#class

http://www.cmsnl.com/classic-honda-f...g_diagrams.php

It looks like all you should have to do is put a toggle switch between the Red and Black wires. This would be the BATT and IGN wires. The other two wires are TL1 and TL2 which are for the lights. I think your switch has three positions: OFF-POS1-POS2. [email protected] simply turns on your tail light as a parking light. POS1 connects BATT->IGN, and also TL1->TL2. Being an older bike, it probably has a separate steering head lock from the ignition cylinder.

Good Luck!
I tried to check the key in multiple positions but kicking it was getting me no where. I'm thinking there's maybe another issue somewhere else, so I'm going to get the battery filled and then go from there. Maybe the electric start will give me a better idea of how to get it running. Thanks for the help though! I may still try to put the ignition on a "hotwire" switch to eliminate the key, but haven't decided on a good way of keeping the bike safe if I do that.

Adam
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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-08-2009, 09:25 AM
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you need a spark checker that plugs inline with the sparkplug and the plug wire. then try kick starting it in multiple key positions, if its flashing youre getting spark.

this is waht im talking about:

http://www.smallenginerepairman.com/dennys-deals

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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-08-2009, 09:33 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Pilotx1 View Post
you need a spark checker that plugs inline with the sparkplug and the plug wire. then try kick starting it in multiple key positions, if its flashing youre getting spark.

this is waht im talking about:

http://www.smallenginerepairman.com/dennys-deals
That looks a like a pretty handy tool. Can you pick those up at any auto parts store?

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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-08-2009, 11:12 AM
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or you could just remove the spark plug and see if its arcing.

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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-08-2009, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by muddy4dsm View Post
That looks a like a pretty handy tool. Can you pick those up at any auto parts store?

pretty much yea

Quote:
Originally Posted by Milenko View Post
or you could just remove the spark plug and see if its arcing.
not exactly easy to see that tiny ass spark while youre tryin to kick start the bike and keep the plug laying on the engine to get ground(ive tried)

these things light up like a small xmas light for the spark pulse, makes it easy to see

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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-08-2009, 12:21 PM

 
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Key and new switch from Dennis kirk.$20

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Last edited by resurrection; 06-08-2009 at 12:26 PM.
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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-08-2009, 12:36 PM
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Hey! Don't go making it easy on him

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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-08-2009, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilotx1 View Post
pretty much yea



not exactly easy to see that tiny ass spark while youre tryin to kick start the bike and keep the plug laying on the engine to get ground(ive tried)

these things light up like a small xmas light for the spark pulse, makes it easy to see
true not the easiest but the cheapest.

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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-08-2009, 03:16 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by resurrection View Post
Key and new switch from Dennis kirk.$20
Well that sounds like an easy fix! I'll probably have to order that anyways, but as a temporary fix I am trying to figure out what wires to cross. So far I've heard black and red, but according to my diagrams I have in my books it looks like brown and red need to be jumped together.

I also found out today on one of the cafe racer boards that I NEED a battery, even for kick starting. Guess I need to get that filled first and go from there...

Adam
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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-08-2009, 03:54 PM

 
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Yes battery fired ign.

red in
brown TL1(head)
black IG
brown/white TL2(tail)

Gus
We offer three kinds of service @ Resurrection
GOOD - CHEAP - FAST
You can pick any two
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GOOD service FAST won't be CHEAP
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I'd love to help but I don't chase parts.
Please contact other forum members and supporters for parts.
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post #16 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-08-2009, 04:07 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by resurrection View Post
Yes battery fired ign.

red in
brown TL1(head)
black IG
brown/white TL2(tail)
So if I made the ignition just a single toggle switch, would I have to attach all three wires to one side of the switch and red on the other in order to get all the lights running or would the tail and headlight come on once the bikes running if I just attached red and black to the switch?

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post #17 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-08-2009, 05:41 PM
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It depends on the model. There's a different wiring diagram for the 4-speed, and the 5-speed. If it's the 5-speed, then the switch should connect the red and black wires. The Brown and Brown/White should be tied together and are activated by the headlight switch. The black wire from the ignition runs to the headlight switch, then as long as the headlight switch is NOT in OFF, then power goes to the Brown/White wire to power the lights.

I guess you didn't trust the wiring diagrams above, huh? I wasn't sure what year your bike was, so I linked to them all.

http://www.cmsnl.com/classic-honda-f...50(5speed).jpg

http://www.cmsnl.com/classic-honda-f...g_diagrams.php

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post #18 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-09-2009, 08:06 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stkr View Post
It depends on the model. There's a different wiring diagram for the 4-speed, and the 5-speed. If it's the 5-speed, then the switch should connect the red and black wires. The Brown and Brown/White should be tied together and are activated by the headlight switch. The black wire from the ignition runs to the headlight switch, then as long as the headlight switch is NOT in OFF, then power goes to the Brown/White wire to power the lights.

I guess you didn't trust the wiring diagrams above, huh? I wasn't sure what year your bike was, so I linked to them all.

http://www.cmsnl.com/classic-honda-f...50(5speed).jpg

http://www.cmsnl.com/classic-honda-f...g_diagrams.php
Ok, those diagrams look better than the one that I have at home. My books tell me that the last key position would be the on position and it connects brown and red but it doesn't have the little "IG" next to it to signify the ignition switch. Mine is the 5 speed based on the wiring diagram since it only has the 4 wires coming out of the ignition switch.

So what you're saying is if the two brown wires are connected together (assuming the ignition switch is removed and I'm left with 4 wires), they'll come on with the bike once the ignition toggle is switched ON as long as the headlight switch is not in the OFF position?

Thanks for finding those diagrams. Hopefully my color printer here at work is good enough to print the little letters next to the wires for a little more detail. Next I might have to have you guys help me figure out what the red wire that's hanging from my headlight is supposed to connect to!

Adam
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post #19 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-09-2009, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muddy4dsm View Post
Ok, those diagrams look better than the one that I have at home. My books tell me that the last key position would be the on position and it connects brown and red but it doesn't have the little "IG" next to it to signify the ignition switch. Mine is the 5 speed based on the wiring diagram since it only has the 4 wires coming out of the ignition switch.

So what you're saying is if the two brown wires are connected together (assuming the ignition switch is removed and I'm left with 4 wires), they'll come on with the bike once the ignition toggle is switched ON as long as the headlight switch is not in the OFF position?

Thanks for finding those diagrams. Hopefully my color printer here at work is good enough to print the little letters next to the wires for a little more detail. Next I might have to have you guys help me figure out what the red wire that's hanging from my headlight is supposed to connect to!
Yes. Just remove the four wires from the ignition. Make sure you take a picture, or write down where each one came from. Tie the Brown (TL2) and Brown/White (TL1) wires together with a wire nut. Now get a simple toggle switch (single pole/single throw) and connect the Red (BAT) wire to one terminal, and the Black (IG) wire to the other terminal.

When you flip the switch, it should act just like when you turn the key on. If you want to save your battery while you're troubleshooting, then just turn your headlight switch to OFF. Make sure your battery is FULLY charged, and will pass a load test before you get too far into this. Once you have power, just use the electric start to check for a spark.

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STT "A" 130
Track: 2006 GSXR-750
Street: 2011 H-D Ultra Limited (Road Sofa)

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post #20 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-09-2009, 02:12 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by stkr View Post
Yes. Just remove the four wires from the ignition. Make sure you take a picture, or write down where each one came from. Tie the Brown (TL2) and Brown/White (TL1) wires together with a wire nut. Now get a simple toggle switch (single pole/single throw) and connect the Red (BAT) wire to one terminal, and the Black (IG) wire to the other terminal.

When you flip the switch, it should act just like when you turn the key on. If you want to save your battery while you're troubleshooting, then just turn your headlight switch to OFF. Make sure your battery is FULLY charged, and will pass a load test before you get too far into this. Once you have power, just use the electric start to check for a spark.
Sounds great! I'll probably be doing that this week sometime if I can find a cool switch and a place to hide it. Thanks for you help man! The battery got filled last night and put on the charger so should be ready to go tonight or whenever I can a chance to work on it.

Adam
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post #21 of 21 (permalink) Old 08-17-2010, 06:45 AM
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So, did it work?

Quote:
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Sounds great! I'll probably be doing that this week sometime if I can find a cool switch and a place to hide it. Thanks for you help man! The battery got filled last night and put on the charger so should be ready to go tonight or whenever I can a chance to work on it.
Hi

I now wonder: how did you connect those 4 wires and did the bike start or did it burst into flames ?
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