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post #1 of 57 (permalink) Old 07-24-2012, 08:37 PM Thread Starter
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I'm A Crasher

I always said if I became "that guy" I would give this sport up. 3 consecutive weekends at Blackhawk resulted in 3 crashes, the last one being the worst. After bouncing off my head, I decided to call it quits. Well...the smarts I got by smashing my noggin into the grass wore off and now I analyzing and thinking about rebuilding to do it all over again.

Problem is the last crash has me confused. I don't know what the hell happened. Initially I though too much throttle and pushed the front until it gave way. The videos do not really indicate that. See the two videos below.

I'm looking for all honest advise even if its "stay the [email protected] of the track and away from me".

On bike cam
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAvFZ...ature=youtu.be

From behind go to 1:12 for crash
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuT4uckDG48

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post #2 of 57 (permalink) Old 07-24-2012, 08:44 PM
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I donno man that's weird I don't really see anything you did wrong. One thing that does stand out as kind of weird though is in both 6a and 6b you stand the bike up or wiggle or do something as soon as your knee hits the ground, i'm wondering if that little movement or whatever you're doing there was enough to upset the bike enough to crash out when leaned over far and giving it some throttle.... Seems like a bit of a stretch but nothing else stands out.

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post #3 of 57 (permalink) Old 07-24-2012, 08:47 PM
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is you peg hitting and lifting your rear wheel?

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post #4 of 57 (permalink) Old 07-24-2012, 08:52 PM
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I was just coming up behind you as you hit the grass. Didn't look like you did anything wrong in the video. Looks as if your front wheel just locked up. When's the last time you bled or changed your brake fluid. I know you've thrown it down a couple times so maybe something related to brakes from previous crash damage.

Oh and don't hang it up just yet. I'm trying to get back up to speed so I can mix it up with you and Erdman before the season is over.

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post #5 of 57 (permalink) Old 07-24-2012, 08:55 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by eE jeremy View Post
I donno man that's weird I don't really see anything you did wrong. One thing that does stand out as kind of weird though is in both 6a and 6b you stand the bike up or wiggle or do something as soon as your knee hits the ground, i'm wondering if that little movement or whatever you're doing there was enough to upset the bike enough to crash out when leaned over far and giving it some throttle.... Seems like a bit of a stretch but nothing else stands out.
It's possible. Thing is I did not feel odd and I was not going all out.

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is you peg hitting and lifting your rear wheel?
Nope, my size 13 makes sure my toe hits first, especially since the peg has been ground down from the first 2 crashes LOL.

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post #6 of 57 (permalink) Old 07-24-2012, 09:02 PM Thread Starter
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Looks as if your front wheel just locked up. When's the last time you bled or changed your brake fluid. I know you've thrown it down a couple times so maybe something related to brakes from previous crash damage.

Oh and don't hang it up just yet. I'm trying to get back up to speed so I can mix it up with you and Erdman before the season is over.
I was really hoping someone would mention the brakes. Fresh fluid and massive bleed on Friday. I accepted full responsibility for my crash based on my riding. The videos started to make me think otherwise. I also did 2 wheels swaps with the rain which has me thinking.

I am trying to find a way to get back in it. The bike needs a lot of parts but after removing the carnage, it does not look too bad. We can't let Erdmann go uncontested.

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post #7 of 57 (permalink) Old 07-24-2012, 09:08 PM
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Seems odd. Have you checked your front suspension, is it binding or stacking?

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post #8 of 57 (permalink) Old 07-24-2012, 09:13 PM Thread Starter
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Seems odd. Have you checked your front suspension, is it binding or stacking?
It wasn't binding before the crash and seems to be moving OK now. I'm not familiar with the term stacking.

The first thing I planned to do is get the forks checked for straightness and correct operation.

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post #9 of 57 (permalink) Old 07-24-2012, 09:18 PM
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Subjective question, were you thinking about tightening your line at that point perhaps ?

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post #10 of 57 (permalink) Old 07-24-2012, 09:24 PM
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You lost the front. Either suspension, hit the brakes mid turn, or just tire losing grip. Maybe you were at max lean and checked up on the throttle? Who knows. Get back out there and do it again until you figure it out.

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post #11 of 57 (permalink) Old 07-24-2012, 09:24 PM
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Looks like you just leaned over a bit too far. But I watched it on my phone. Will get a better lookm when I get home.

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post #12 of 57 (permalink) Old 07-24-2012, 09:29 PM
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post #13 of 57 (permalink) Old 07-24-2012, 09:32 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLARNEY View Post
Subjective question, were you thinking about tightening your line at that point perhaps ?

Tom
I don't think I did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago Performance View Post
You lost the front. Either suspension, hit the brakes mid turn, or just tire losing grip. Maybe you were at max lean and checked up on the throttle? Who knows. Get back out there and do it again until you figure it out.
This pretty much covers everything.
Could be suspension
I know for sure I did not hit the brakes
Front for sure lost grip
The video sounds like I am rolling into the throttle, I don't detect a roll off.

I want to get back out but this hurt.

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post #14 of 57 (permalink) Old 07-24-2012, 09:35 PM
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I'm by no means an expert rider and have never been to the track, but I will give an opinion. I noticed that in the second video, you didn't have your right leg extended out. I don't know why people do that, but when I watch these kind of races it looks like when then make a turn they exaggerate and extend the knee out far from the bike. I did not see you do that, so that's maybe why you fell. Again, i am not expert, just making an observation.
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post #15 of 57 (permalink) Old 07-24-2012, 09:52 PM
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i dont think theres any 1 thing you can point to and say this is why

lean angle, it didnt look like you were off the bike alot
loss of grip (how old are tires?)
did your toe scrape?
bottom out the fork maybe? i know theres some light bumps in the pavement there

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post #16 of 57 (permalink) Old 07-24-2012, 09:55 PM
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Possibility - you get a little blackie before the crash, but I can't tell if it's from the front or rear tire. Perhaps you lost the rear right about max lean. And I don't know why you picked your knee up, but right before you go down you touch the knee and pick it up. You're leaned over pretty far in that turn, so picking it up may have given you the idea that you had more lean to go. Combine the added lean with a little rear spin and you'd end up on the ground.

You're either already crashing or leaned over way to far with no reference with your knee.

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post #17 of 57 (permalink) Old 07-24-2012, 10:00 PM
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why is that out of 9 pictures on gron4 site at corner six, you are way off the apex 9 times ? hmm....

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post #18 of 57 (permalink) Old 07-24-2012, 10:01 PM Thread Starter
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How do you get a frame like that or forward frame by frame?? Play/pause does not work very well.

That pic shows me terrible body position and too much lean angle. I'm not sure why I was bouncing my knee up and down like that but I don't think it helped.

The skid mark looks like its from the front. If thats true, I am pretty much crashed at that frame.

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post #19 of 57 (permalink) Old 07-24-2012, 10:26 PM
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Your arms get tiredwhenyouride ?


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post #20 of 57 (permalink) Old 07-24-2012, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alocker View Post
How do you get a frame like that or forward frame by frame?? Play/pause does not work very well.

That pic shows me terrible body position and too much lean angle. I'm not sure why I was bouncing my knee up and down like that but I don't think it helped.

The skid mark looks like its from the front. If thats true, I am pretty much crashed at that frame.
Pause/play quickly and I took a screenshot on my iPad. It almost looked like you just dove into the ground after you pick your knee up. Is lifting your knee a conscious choice for you? Why are you lifting your knee up so quickly?

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post #21 of 57 (permalink) Old 07-24-2012, 10:37 PM Thread Starter
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Your arms get tiredwhenyouride ?


Tom
Everything does. I admit a slacked on working out the few weeks before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PatFitz9 View Post
Pause/play quickly and I took a screenshot on my iPad. It almost looked like you just dove into the ground after you pick your knee up. Is that a conscious choice for you? Why are you lifting your knee up so quickly?
Not sure, never put much emphasis on keeping my knee down. It does look odd but I think the crash was happening at that point. It seemed much quicker when it happened.

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post #22 of 57 (permalink) Old 07-24-2012, 11:24 PM
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Your lean angle looked good, he'll check Farrell's pics of his lean angle. The blackie looks like its on the front tire, check your warmers to see what temp they are working at. This was the fist lap, maybe cold tire and mid corner throttle pushed the front?

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post #23 of 57 (permalink) Old 07-25-2012, 07:12 AM
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Sorry for the string of questions .... but I have two theories .......

Obvious it was a front end slide / tuck.


I think one of two things happened once you are already at deep lean ......

Your inside arm looks stiff and like it's weighting the bar ..... that itself could cause this.

The second .... with a slightly stiff arm you desired a slightly tighter line and added a small input via the stiff inside arm ( counter-steering input ) and tucked the front.



Hard to say exactly what caused it ..... but would say we could improve your interface with the motorcycle a bit to eliminate some possibilities.



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post #24 of 57 (permalink) Old 07-25-2012, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatFitz9 View Post
Pause/play quickly and I took a screenshot on my iPad. It almost looked like you just dove into the ground after you pick your knee up. Is lifting your knee a conscious choice for you? Why are you lifting your knee up so quickly?
Looks to me like when your knee hit the ground you quickly pulled it back up. In the lean you were in perhaps this was enough.

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post #25 of 57 (permalink) Old 07-25-2012, 08:44 AM
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What brand of tire are you running?
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post #26 of 57 (permalink) Old 07-25-2012, 08:51 AM Thread Starter
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What brand of tire are you running?
Bridgestone R-10

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post #27 of 57 (permalink) Old 07-25-2012, 08:59 AM
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I have a solution:

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post #28 of 57 (permalink) Old 07-25-2012, 09:07 AM
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Pretty far off the apex. You were pushed out in 6a, and then were wide again in b. My tire is right at the curb when I get it right through there. It's slippery just 2 feet or so out, which is where you were. Combine this with a lightened front end under acceleration out of the corner, and there you go..

After being wide in a, it also looks like you didn't go to the outside much to enter b, so instead of being on the throttle before the apex, you came in tight, tried to tighten up more while also applying too much gas. Have you taken Ferrell's school?

Crashes happen. I know guys who have crashed 3 times in one weekend. Sucks, but keep at it.

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post #29 of 57 (permalink) Old 07-25-2012, 09:09 AM Thread Starter
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Sorry for the string of questions .... but I have two theories .......

Obvious it was a front end slide / tuck.


I think one of two things happened once you are already at deep lean ......

Your inside arm looks stiff and like it's weighting the bar ..... that itself could cause this.

The second .... with a slightly stiff arm you desired a slightly tighter line and added a small input via the stiff inside arm ( counter-steering input ) and tucked the front.



Hard to say exactly what caused it ..... but would say we could improve your interface with the motorcycle a bit to eliminate some possibilities.



Tom
I agree. Death grip is one thing I have tried to work on. Unfortunately as I get tired, the grip gets worse because I have trying to support the rest of my body.

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post #30 of 57 (permalink) Old 07-25-2012, 09:10 AM
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Watched the vid again. I take it back, you did go to the outside between a and b, but you were still nowhere near the apex. It looks like you initiated turn in too early, and had to carry too much angle to make the turn. Try squaring off a bit more, entering later so that you are more upright and harder on the gas at the apex. You should be well on your way to picking the bike up at that point.

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Last edited by Farmboy69; 07-25-2012 at 09:22 AM.
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