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A sense of entitlement from the executive to the elderly or disabled

2K views 46 replies 13 participants last post by  Super Dave 
#1 ·
Perhaps this belongs in the politic hate thread.. but I am not putting it there.. As I feel it fits equally well here.. and is rather apolitical

I was wondering what some other peoples thoughts are on this.. I am just curious if I am in the minority or the majority on this one..

Let me start off by saying I have worked a # of jobs where bonuses were a norm...
Where we all hoped the "numbers came in" or the company did well.. As our bonuses were dependent on them... If the company made billions.. We would get thousands.. All that said often I had absolutely nothing to directly do with the bottom line.. That said we were at the mercy of the company, the stock market, and really whatever factors came to play.. Hell if our CEO decided to nail an escort and found himself on the front page of all the papers and then fired.. and our stock tanked.. We might be outraged, but really.. What could we do? No bonus. Firm lost an assload...

So here is what I don't get.. There is all this talk about Executive Compensation and bonuses.. I would have thought these two things would be seperate.. One is your pay.. It's what guaranteed (as long as you have your job) and bonus.. It's what comes from both a job well done, and the company doing well.. Right?

I hear all kinds of people on one side of the spectrum supporting executives taking 7 and 8 figure bonuses in the face of their firm failing (possibly at their hands.. possibly somewhat on purpose (short term gains at the cost of long term... only?)

I don't see how this isn't considered an inflated sense of entitlement...

Now on the other end of the spectrum.. Social Security.. Even with what happened to my 401k.. I wish I could opt out of this system.. but I can't ...
every month thousands of my dollars (from myself and from my employer) go off to this mysterious general fund of funds... I am forced to pay for this savings account that isn't my own.. but if I get old or injured and dip into it I am lowlife scum with some sense of entitlement..

Or... The auto workers.. They put in their 20-30 years.. are retired now.. and we should pull the rug out of them.. They signed a deal.. put in the time.. and built a life around a specific set of rules.. Now we call them entitled... WTF? They had a contract.. They did their job... and years later... The rules change.... and now they were wrong all that time?

I am running out of time on this.. So I will cut this short for now..
Perhaps someone can explain to me how one side is ok.. the other isn't?

It seems to me that an old person who put in his time.. his life working.. putting HIS money away to a system is less a person with a sense of entitlement..
Than some bank or insurance executive.. Who bankrupted their company.. and is living on corporate welfare.. Yet expects the taxpayers to food the bill for them getting bonuses equal to 50 people or mores annual salaries..??


Last thing.. I am sitting at work..
I took a large paycut when I left the bank (laid off during a buyout... my job is now in India)...
Then I came here...
Less money.. Then a pay cut..
then an hour cut (on top of the pay cut..)
and then my wife got laid off... (and she was putting in 60-80 hours average for them..)

I'm still not complaining.. To be honest I am glad they cut our hours and pay rather than cut even more people... This will turn around ... things will go back (hopefully) and we are all in this together..

So.. if I took all these cuts.. for the most part without complaint...
Why are these executives whining about not getting multi million dollar bonuses? Where is their sense of shame? How can you cut major chunks of your workforce .. and then just ram the equivelent of dozens of peoples salaries and lives... in your pocket and not feel like crap...

and how is that not a sense of entitlement?



I guess I just don't understand
I'll try to clean this up a bit as soon as I get a moment.. Lost a third of my team due to all this crap.
 
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#2 ·
I will point out that there are two types of bonuses, and lumping them together, as you are doing above, is painting a false picture.

The type of bonus you are focusing on, is what one would call a merit bonus. You do well, your company does well, you get rewarded.

The other type of bonus is the retention bonus. The please don't jump ship, stick around and keep working your ass off for us though our ship is sinking, and we'll give you X.

What seems to be unclear, is whether the bonuses given to AIG executives, are the former or the latter. If it is the former, then by all means, they are unwarranted. But if it is the latter, then that is a different matter entirely and not at all based on entitlement.

Read the following open resignation letter, from an AIG exec, presented to the New York Times. Presuming his words are to be believed, then AIG execs being hung out to dry for accepting RETENTION bonuses, while being portrayed to the public as accepting MERIT bonuses.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/25/opinion/25desantis.html?ref=opinion
 
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#5 ·
I read the article actually.
I just don't understand why the executive leadership of these firms doesn't share in the pain they are a big part of....
They profit handsomly on the upstroke.. On the downstroke they should take an equal or greater downstroke.. Sort of a "comes with the territory" thing..
Kind of like company owners do...
Therefore they would have an encouragment to succeed..
A retention bonus no matter what? or for who you know?

So..
You get a paycheck
You get a retention bonus
You get a success bonus..
and even if the company goes bankrupt you get at least 2 of the 3?

What's the downside?

and why is it considered a sense of entitlement to expect you are going to get all this extra pay no matter what happens?

and why is it a sense of entitlement when a union worker puts in his 20-30 years and expects his insurance to continue.. or when someone works their 40 years and expects the social security they put in their entire working life (and yes.. they call it an entitlement)

maybe I am just complaining about definitions.

I have no problem doing for myself.. and to be honest.. even with all the cuts we have had.. I am doing fine.. We are doing fine.. Just seems greedy to be expecting 7 figure bonuses while your company is swirling down the toilet.. only saved by the govt putting a big net at the bottom...

taking the tax money of millions of americans.. funneling it into your company.. and you taking exorbitant bonuses.. ?
 
#8 · (Edited)
Rob

I read that...
and I must admit.. Nowhere in the news did I see that these guys were working for $1 a year

That said.. It almost seems like they or the admin is trying to drum up a nice class war...

How can you justify taking enormous bonuses while you are slaughtering all the jobs below you?
It makes people angry.. and rightly so...
To be honest it does seem to be a sense of entitlement to me
I would have loved to get a raise and a bonus this year
that wont happen
i had nothing to do with this.. but my family and I are paying the price.. and I assure you we had a lot less to do with this mess than the people in the financial products arm at AIG...

Good to hear he is working hard... "After 12 months of hard work dismantling the company "
 
#16 ·
How is it entitlement, if a contractual retention agreement is made?

And Jason, I disagree with you. Retention bonuses have their place outside of one's salary.

If you are running a sinking ship, but are trying to set things straight, and need certain people to stick around to complete task X, Y, and Z, you're going to give them an incentive to do so. Else they have no motivation to remain through the end.

Example, my buddy worked for an EDS team stationed at the Janesville GM plant, which was recently shut down. EDS gave teammembers some options to move on, but they still needed a crew to remain until the very end, to fully close the otherwise dead plant. Key personnel were offered retention bonuses in order to do so, lest they begin job hunting immediately and leave before the closure is complete.

How can you, as an employee, "justify" only your paycheck as motivation to remain with a company that is going through difficult times or terminating?
 
#17 ·
Ok..
So then part 2
Why is it an entitlement program when people who pay into a system use it?

As usualy.. Some personal things have led me down the path of asking this question..

Those are excellent points, but how are they more or less entitlement or something for nothing than say.. Social Security.. I don't want to be in Social Security.. but I am forced.. So.. Why should I not collect? or unemployment... or a pension

How are the very same people who bash on others (union.. pensioners) able to take govt handouts to the tune of millions?
 
#18 ·
Great article, thanks for sharing this with us.

Retention bonuses to guys that are working for a $1 a year is a completely different thing than someone getting a performance bonus. Performance bonuses are typcially tied to inviduvidual, group, or company performance (or a mixture of some or all of the categories).

Working 12-14 hours a day for a company that you KNOW is toast and then not paying the only people that can right the ship, after the perpetrators are long gone... yeah, that makes sense.

They should have in investigation, and track down the folks that caused the problem. Of course, they didn't do anything illegal as far as we know at this point. they were just greedy and stupid... but smart enough to get out apparently.

The sad fact is that the CEO didn't disclose this info and defend his GOOD people. Can you imagine the recruiter at AIU? Come join us, work long hard hours for a company that everyone hates. Sign this contract, we won't honor it when it becomes politically untennable, and we'll let you take the heat for what people in other divisions have done to the company.

Yeah, great one. And how is it that we expect to get our money back from this company?
 
#27 ·
I believe the last study showed that a flat 10% tax would increase the overall federal revenue and would of course, eliminate thousand of pages of tax code, and reduce IRS, accounting and legal work forces.

With regard to share. I was referring to equal share, not fair share. I agree that "to those much is given, much is required".
 
#28 ·
The person who can only make 10 grand for his family would certainly miss that thousand bucks each year... Alternatively, someone who made 500K and had to 'make do' with 450K wouldn't be hurting or eating dog food while trying to stay warm in the winter time...
 
#32 ·
If you worked form it you should get it bonus or pay. But not with my money. Anyway I think the whole A.I.G. thing is a smoke screen. we are getting fucked Bad the A.I.G. thing is nothing compared to whats coming down the pipe. Wait and see it hasn't even been 100 days yet.
 
#34 ·
To be honest.. Everyone should pay their fair share.. at least IMHO

I can't remember a time I paid no taxes.. Even when I only made like 3.15 an hour.. I had no writeoffs.. Govt got theirs... Wasn't as much % as it is now..

but to be honest, just because you don't make a lot doesn't mean your not proud enough to want to pay your own way...

I honestly think a lot of lower and middle people are more ok with paying taxes than the rich are..
 
#35 ·
Fair share of what?

What state body determines or would determine that?

Right now, the "fair share" is that those who are successful make more money, and pay more in taxes to support things like ACORN, the UN, abortions in other countries, in addition to things that are more relevant like the judicial system, national defense, and so on.

What is the morality for government in forcing a person to pay for the bailout of GM under the threat of seizure of property, jail, or garnishment of wages?
 
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