06/07 gsxr 600 engine valves - Chicagoland Sportbikes
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post #1 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-04-2011, 08:11 PM Thread Starter
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06/07 gsxr 600 engine valves

I was reading articles today(i know bad idea) about various things bike relates one of which being that the gsxr 600/750s of this generation have titanium engine valves which tend to be short lived...

any truth to that? andone have experience with failure adn how long does it take?

-Jason
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post #2 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-04-2011, 10:09 PM
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Not sure it is the valves or the retainers that let go first. I know the retainers are weak link in 04 05 600's.

Ti valves on dirty's are known to wear faster but on a sport bikes?

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post #3 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-04-2011, 10:35 PM Thread Starter
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the 04/05 dn 06/07 share the following
ex valves, retainers, cotters

different parts:
intake valves, ex springs, in springs

the 06/07 uses the same springs for in and ex

im just worried that at 7500 miles im coming up on a catastrophic failure because of a known weakness

-Jason
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post #4 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-04-2011, 10:36 PM
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They have a very thin coating which protects the valve from heat.

If you lap the valves ( or remove the coating ) they melt pretty much immediately.


The fragility you are referring to ( I think ) was a series of valves early on that broke
off their tip, lost their retainer.... then they drop in the cylinder and.......


The newer valves correct the issue.... but you still cannot lap them.


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post #5 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-04-2011, 10:37 PM
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Ah.... as for time / mileage ..... depends on useage.

Race or "touring ".


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post #6 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-04-2011, 10:42 PM Thread Starter
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Ah.... as for time / mileage ..... depends on useage.

Race or "touring ".


Tom
this is my track bike, its a salvage title so exact history is a question but the previous owner said he got it with about 4500 miles on it as a street bike before it was crashed
he put about 1000miles of track time on it
i put about 2000 track miles on to it last summer

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post #7 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-04-2011, 10:43 PM
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Sure this would happen, I fuck up the valve retainers on my S2000, pay out the ass to get them fixed. Decide some months later that I'll buy another sportbike, pick up a 2004 GSXR-600 with 7,900 miles on it and is also ready to drop a valve at any moment. Fuck my life.

Fuck it, I'm riding this one into the ground.

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post #8 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-04-2011, 11:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLARNEY View Post
They have a very thin coating which protects the valve from heat.

If you lap the valves ( or remove the coating ) they melt pretty much immediately.


The fragility you are referring to ( I think ) was a series of valves early on that broke
off their tip, lost their retainer.... then they drop in the cylinder and.......


The newer valves correct the issue.... but you still cannot lap them.


Tom
Not a heat coating, but a hard coating. Ti valves are softer than stainless or super metal valves, so you have to use a soft intake seat like Beryllium copper and a low seating pressure spring. For the 600, the high valve speeds probably requires a heavier spring and dictates a hard coating, like a DLC. Microns thick, so if you lap the valve, you remove the coating. It would then have really bad seat recession and guttering (looking like it melted).
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post #9 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-04-2011, 11:11 PM
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Any way to tell if the valve seat is fucked without removing the heads?

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post #10 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-04-2011, 11:16 PM
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Any way to tell if the valve seat is fucked without removing the heads?
Check valve lash. If the lash goes away, then the valve is receding into the head. A leak down and compression test will sometimes catch a bad seat before the lash goes away..... but its typically all or nothing.
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post #11 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-04-2011, 11:17 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Any way to tell if the valve seat is fucked without removing the heads?
leakdown and lash




as for my situation im not thinking about lapping them im looking more at the need for replacement, which just for the valves added up to about $1k from DGYs site

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post #12 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-04-2011, 11:23 PM
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Quote:
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leakdown and lash




as for my situation im not thinking about lapping them im looking more at the need for replacement, which just for the valves added up to about $1k from DGYs site
If you pull the head.... (and are really that concerned), I can have our head tech at work inspect it or the valves, but Id prefer the whole thing. He's the guy Ive told you about...... brilliant but easily bored. It might take 4 months to get it done, but it will be perfect when you get it back.
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post #13 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-04-2011, 11:27 PM Thread Starter
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riding season starts in april, i dont really have 4 mo

-Jason
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post #14 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-04-2011, 11:36 PM
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If the lash is good, I'd run it. Other than gross defects, like cracks or seat recession, pulling the head apart for inspection is going to due little good. Run it till it breaks.

Without calling up Suzuki and getting real warranty data, I think any target mileage is going to be crap. You need to know equivalent high RPM WOT time for each failure to even begin figuring out when the mean time to failure is, and how your valves are accumulating fatigue cycles compared to that...... IF Fatigue of the valve itself is the culprit.

Measure it.... run it.... have fun. New motor is going to be cheaper than changing the valves anyways.
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post #15 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-04-2011, 11:51 PM

 
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Ok lets not beat a dead horse If your loosing sleep pull the head but stranded style valves lap them in and run it.

People talk alot of shit that they read on the internet and for the most part are to smart for their own good.


OLD school back yard skilled mechanics will be here long after all these.MAKE it perfect never done it before ass holes are long gone......

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post #16 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-04-2011, 11:58 PM Thread Starter
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gus, like i said i was reading, and it brought about questions for me, i havent even come close to a wrench about this
I know the motor could grenade the next time i start it or 3 years from now so its not something im gonna lose sleep over and its certainly not gonna keep me from riding the bike.I was jsut wondering if it is indeed a known weak spot and if so if theres something to do about it to get ahead of it, it doesnt sound like its an issue anymore so.. ill check the lash and make sure its in spec and go riding

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post #17 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-05-2011, 12:09 AM

 
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I'm not busting your balls so much

I have become a little jaded about the whole internet knowledge thing.People get all worked up about some thing that MIGHT happen because they read it on the internet.

20 years ago you'd never had a concern and now you worried about something an idiot that never checked his valve clearance want's to blame on Suzuki.

Lets keep one other thing in mind if your buying a GSXR 1000 because it's a RACE bike that's what you get.....

600 or what ever you might be claiming or bought to emulate is a race bike (NO Warranty)

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post #18 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-05-2011, 12:22 AM Thread Starter
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im not blaming suzuki either, i know the risks and i know its an expensive hobby
the article i read was on from RRw seen here:
http://www.armyofdarkness.com/index....6-rrw/59-gsx-r

"Slightly more sexy are the titanium valves (unchanged from 2005 so be prepared to buy a lot of them if you race a lot) with buckets that are 1mm larger both intake and exhaust (26 and 24mm respectively). The exhaust cam has picked up a fair amount of lift from 7.3mm to 8.0mm. The changes to the buckets, cam lift and RPM must have increased the specification and design of the valve springs but if they did Suzuki isn’t talking about it. The radiator is much bigger to increase cooling capacity by 17%."


the article wasnt even about the valves but the rollout of a new bike
looks like this is a case of too much information being a bad thing

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post #19 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-05-2011, 12:34 AM

 
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With a fella like your self that can make sense of these mechanical things I'm not so much on you or your question.

I do believe the internet can teach alot of us a few things such as spelling (don't laugh ass holes)
But I wish some of them could figure out which end of the wrench to use before becoming motorcycle knowledgeable.

Yes some bikes have issues.
I've heard that SV's starve the crank bearings when doing wheelies.I also read somewhere that if you stop doing wheelies it won't be a problem.

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post #20 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-05-2011, 12:42 AM
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I think the real question here is, "what oil is best for those valves"









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post #21 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-05-2011, 12:44 AM

 
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That's exactly my point.

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post #22 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-05-2011, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
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im just worried that at 7500 miles im coming up on a catastrophic failure because of a known weakness
I wouldn't be too concerned. When buying used of course you may wonder how the previous owner(s) cared for it but I bought my 600 around the same time you did. Mine was used too and had 18K miles on it. After doing the initial maintenance (plugs, filters, oil etc) I came to the conclusion that the previous owner just put gas, oil in it and rode. My bike runs perfect, both on the track and street. My guess is that your bike is just fine with less that 1/2 the mileage. These are Suzuki's man, they run forever with little maintenance. Although I am like you and mental with maintenance and do more than required. On that note I am going to have the valves adjusted and checked due to mileage this spring.

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post #23 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-05-2011, 07:12 AM
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Knowing they are the same I would at least replace the retainers. I had a retainer let go, which let the valve drop at Gingerman first session with a handful of laps in going into the first turn. Ask G2G and Plotts they where both there.

It broke the valve head off and tried sending the head out the head sideways. There are pictures and a thread I made about it a few years ago.

The head will come off with motor still in bike.

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post #24 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-05-2011, 09:45 AM
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Do what CP does. Drive to Daytona and have two creepy friends join you. Rent a a room at a flea-bag motel, pull the engine, bring it in the room, and check P/V clearance. Oh, and don't forget the tape and an old tire.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by resurrection View Post
That's exactly my point.
I read on a trusted forum from a guy who builds 700 horsepower race bikes so he knows all. He said that rotella and improper fork height was causing these valve failures. Since this guy makes 6 figures and bangs super models who squirt like olf faithful on command. I tend to trust what hes saying.




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Bare foot and one shoe.
that's a great photo thanks Dave.LOL

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post #27 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-05-2011, 10:11 AM
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Thats not a hotel room, thats CP's shop! This was just last week.




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post #28 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-05-2011, 10:13 AM

 
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I don't allow cameras in my shop.

Incriminating ya know.

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post #29 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-05-2011, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TripleZ View Post
Not a heat coating, but a hard coating. Ti valves are softer than stainless or super metal valves, so you have to use a soft intake seat like Beryllium copper and a low seating pressure spring. For the 600, the high valve speeds probably requires a heavier spring and dictates a hard coating, like a DLC. Microns thick, so if you lap the valve, you remove the coating. It would then have really bad seat recession and guttering (looking like it melted).

Yeah.... OK, that's for the distinction.

I can tell you for a fact.... this happens in a handful of laps if the coating is compromised.


Glad Smails checked in here.... he is the 600 Valve Expert.


Sorry Brian ... you're next.


And guys.... Good advice here, Set the lash and do a leakdown that will tell you what's what.

The fragile vales were a short time issue. Any motor can break a valve at any time ..... don't sweat it.


Set it up right and ring the shit out of it.


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post #30 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-05-2011, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave13 View Post
Do what CP does. Drive to Daytona and have two creepy friends join you. Rent a a room at a flea-bag motel, pull the engine, bring it in the room, and check P/V clearance. Oh, and don't forget the tape and an old tire.

So one guy is barefoot, Ken looks like he has just socks on, and one dude has just one boot? WTF :P LOL


Yeah fak the internet readings man. Man no one in the 80s and 90s gave a fuck and just rode the sh#$ out of their bikes. Maaan Doty Road once it gets warm!

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