This evenings KZ900 - Chicagoland Sportbikes
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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-13-2012, 12:19 AM Thread Starter

 
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This evenings KZ900

Came in with a flat #2cyl.

First a Compression test "0" psi on #2




sure looks like the EX valve hit.






Yep #2 is flat.

This bike has RC400 cams SO BIG the head was cleared for the cam lobe.

The bike has an 1135cc 74mm Wisco piston kit.

This engine has been apart so many times several bolts replaced.I hope I don't strip any. I'll keep the torque on the soft side.

Gus
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Please contact other forum members and supporters for parts.

Last edited by resurrection; 02-13-2012 at 01:15 AM.
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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-15-2012, 10:47 PM Thread Starter

 
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I see by all the response none of you are worried about what caused this

What do you suppose could cause this failure?

What do you think would be the easy fix that will help avoid this happening again?

Gus
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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-15-2012, 11:03 PM
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Failed cam chain tensioner?
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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-15-2012, 11:03 PM
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I'm interested. So we have an exhaust valve that made contact with the piston head? Weak or broken valve spring?

Chris
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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-15-2012, 11:11 PM
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Did the cam get out of time? Bad cam chain tensioner?
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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-15-2012, 11:25 PM Thread Starter

 
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Big lift cam with Andrews springs but the clearance is definitely a concern.

No sign of skipped chain as finding TDC worked with all marks.

I suppose a stretched cam chain could alter cam timing enough to cause this????

I was wondering about bad crank bearings also allowing the piston to run up into valve?

One thing I'm almost certain about is the over rev that helped it happen.

Gus
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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-15-2012, 11:27 PM
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What would make 1 ex valve hit but not the others? Damage to a piston like that is often detonation. I've seen valves bent much worse than that not cause piston damage like this. It's hard to tell from the photos but it looks like some aluminum spatter. Maybe detonation started, super heated the valve, causing it to momentarily stick in the guide, and the piston came up to hit it. Again, hard to tell from the photos,but, is that a forged piston? Forged pistons are really hard to break. Or how about the cylinder went into detonation, super heated the piston ring, causing it to stick, cracked off a chunk, which then got between the valve and it's seat. Kind of hard to evaluate from only pics.

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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-15-2012, 11:37 PM
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Are there any marks on the head from piston contact? If it was chain or lift related why only 1 valve hitting? Is this engine shim under bucket or over. Shim over bucket and big lift can cause problems at hi RPM.

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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-16-2012, 12:11 AM Thread Starter

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ceptor View Post
Are there any marks on the head from piston contact? If it was chain or lift related why only 1 valve hitting? Is this engine shim under bucket or over. Shim over bucket and big lift can cause problems at hi RPM.
I like this .

the reason i mention a bad crank bearing is because of only one piston hit.

high rpm and not quite enough clearance, missed shift ,over rev and then stomp into gear with stretched cam chain.yep that could do it.

not detonation I've seen that before, this was impact.Not enough eyebrow clearance. 10.25 /1Wisco

Keep in mind this motor has been apart many times and not as tight as it should be.

By the way it'll be going back together just as loose on this guys budget.

Gus
We offer three kinds of service @ Resurrection
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GOOD service FAST won't be CHEAP
FAST service CHEAP won't be GOOD
and cold beer.

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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-16-2012, 09:34 AM
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If I remember correctly, I've seen a few motors where only one of the pistons made contact with the valve (and actually snapped the head off, rattling it around the cylinder like a maraca). But I don't remember the cause of it other than 'missed shift/overrev' which, of course, the owner would never admit to.

Also possible; all the power went into the cam and piston, but no love was given to crank due to budget reasons (crank welding and balancing are big $$$) so the crank could be out of balance as well.
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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-16-2012, 11:18 AM
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I bent a valve on a cammed up kz1000 once I think it was a 1075 though

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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-18-2012, 01:15 AM Thread Starter

 
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Cyl. looks OK new rings and one new piston.

We 'll try to seat new valves if we can.

I want a new cam chain tensioner and two head gaskets to increase clearance.

Would be happy to have this thing back together with about 20hrs labor.

The thing is of course money and the fact that it's built to the max.I can't offer any type of warranty knowing this poor bike will suffer at the owners hands.

I guess this is what the bike was built for in the first place.

RIDE IT LIKE YOU STOLE IT.

Gus
We offer three kinds of service @ Resurrection
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You can pick any two
GOOD service CHEAP won't be FAST
GOOD service FAST won't be CHEAP
FAST service CHEAP won't be GOOD
and cold beer.

I'd love to help but I don't chase parts.
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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-19-2012, 10:55 PM Thread Starter

 
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After some more time on the job.I've become more confident in the failure of the cam chain tensioner.

I'm flabbergasted that the builder used the OEM CCT with nothing more than a pinch style bolt for holding the load.

You can see on the rods flat face that it has slid back with force under the bolt.





Sucks because APE sells a nice one for $80.The owner said the last builder took this one off a parts motor.That's a damn shame.

Gus
We offer three kinds of service @ Resurrection
GOOD - CHEAP - FAST
You can pick any two
GOOD service CHEAP won't be FAST
GOOD service FAST won't be CHEAP
FAST service CHEAP won't be GOOD
and cold beer.

I'd love to help but I don't chase parts.
Please contact other forum members and supporters for parts.

Last edited by resurrection; 05-20-2012 at 09:11 AM.
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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-19-2012, 10:57 PM
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See post three?





Lucky guess.
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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-19-2012, 11:04 PM Thread Starter

 
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Yes sir
Well done

Gus
We offer three kinds of service @ Resurrection
GOOD - CHEAP - FAST
You can pick any two
GOOD service CHEAP won't be FAST
GOOD service FAST won't be CHEAP
FAST service CHEAP won't be GOOD
and cold beer.

I'd love to help but I don't chase parts.
Please contact other forum members and supporters for parts.
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post #16 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-12-2012, 10:42 PM Thread Starter

 
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Update;

The piston is some thing special and MTC can't replace it.

SO they have an old design set of 4 they are going to sell me complete with rings, wrist pin and clips for $250.

Seems like plan to me the new pistons will have less dome and therefor less compression.

Along with more clearance.Which works for me.

Gus
We offer three kinds of service @ Resurrection
GOOD - CHEAP - FAST
You can pick any two
GOOD service CHEAP won't be FAST
GOOD service FAST won't be CHEAP
FAST service CHEAP won't be GOOD
and cold beer.

I'd love to help but I don't chase parts.
Please contact other forum members and supporters for parts.
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post #17 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-20-2012, 12:34 AM Thread Starter

 
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Well the bike is back together. After some parts logistics We finally got this very cool pile of parts.



I bent an oil ring on piston #1.


I was sent the wrong stock base gasket it Won't work with the big bore pistons



I then ground a new valve stem to short.LOL


After getting the goods assembled.


Today I tried to start the bike and wouldn't ya know it.

IT HAS NO SPARK.Ha HA

I love this stuff

hopefully 1135 cc of big cam thunder will roar through the hood tomorrow.

Maybe we'll see you at the strip.

Gus
We offer three kinds of service @ Resurrection
GOOD - CHEAP - FAST
You can pick any two
GOOD service CHEAP won't be FAST
GOOD service FAST won't be CHEAP
FAST service CHEAP won't be GOOD
and cold beer.

I'd love to help but I don't chase parts.
Please contact other forum members and supporters for parts.

Last edited by resurrection; 05-20-2012 at 09:19 AM.
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post #18 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-20-2012, 05:22 AM
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post #19 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-20-2012, 08:56 AM Thread Starter

 
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^^^^Not sure yet??? once the tail light warranty is up, then we'll know.

Gus
We offer three kinds of service @ Resurrection
GOOD - CHEAP - FAST
You can pick any two
GOOD service CHEAP won't be FAST
GOOD service FAST won't be CHEAP
FAST service CHEAP won't be GOOD
and cold beer.

I'd love to help but I don't chase parts.
Please contact other forum members and supporters for parts.

Last edited by resurrection; 05-20-2012 at 09:03 AM.
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post #20 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-20-2012, 02:09 PM Thread Starter

 
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Found a bad connection from the ign. switch.
Seems to run well.





Riding one of these stretched,flex framed old bikes with extra power leaves something to be desired

Gus
We offer three kinds of service @ Resurrection
GOOD - CHEAP - FAST
You can pick any two
GOOD service CHEAP won't be FAST
GOOD service FAST won't be CHEAP
FAST service CHEAP won't be GOOD
and cold beer.

I'd love to help but I don't chase parts.
Please contact other forum members and supporters for parts.
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post #21 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-20-2012, 03:57 PM
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Another save for the books Gus .....

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post #22 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-20-2012, 05:03 PM Thread Starter

 
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This one has seen its day.

It'll make it through one more pit lane.

Gus
We offer three kinds of service @ Resurrection
GOOD - CHEAP - FAST
You can pick any two
GOOD service CHEAP won't be FAST
GOOD service FAST won't be CHEAP
FAST service CHEAP won't be GOOD
and cold beer.

I'd love to help but I don't chase parts.
Please contact other forum members and supporters for parts.

Last edited by resurrection; 05-20-2012 at 05:14 PM.
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