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post #1 of 43 (permalink) Old 05-06-2004, 12:08 AM Thread Starter
 
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Reason I'd do Turbo

This isn't the run I was looking for, but I've seen low 6 seconds at 130's

http://www.mjdjkj.com/videos/turbobusa.mpeg
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post #2 of 43 (permalink) Old 05-06-2004, 12:25 AM
 
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Shouldnt a 6 sec run be in the 180's? I hava a turbo on the shelf and half a manifold built : )
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post #3 of 43 (permalink) Old 05-06-2004, 05:38 PM
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Re: Reason I'd do Turbo

Quote:
Originally posted by stilettoR6
This isn't the run I was looking for, but I've seen low 6 seconds at 130's

http://www.mjdjkj.com/videos/turbobusa.mpeg
best time for a streetbike is 7.42 at 194mph! For someone to be in the 6s well over 200mph! Not happening anytime soon!
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post #4 of 43 (permalink) Old 05-07-2004, 02:33 PM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by YTRAP
Shouldnt a 6 sec run be in the 180's? I hava a turbo on the shelf and half a manifold built : )

Thats what I get for posting after a 12 hour work day. To be honest I don't remember what time I was giving, could've hit the wrong key for the speed. My point being Turbos 8 out of 10 are faster than NOS. And I believe in my opinion more controlable and reliable.
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post #5 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-02-2004, 04:34 PM
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low 6's at 130 could be a realistic 1/8th mile, and if that's the case it would be about a 10 flat bike (but to go 6's in the 1/8th at 130 would be something to see, because I think you would only be about 85~90 in a low 6 second 1/8th mile pass

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turn the bars left and go right; that just isn't right
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post #6 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-02-2004, 04:48 PM
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1/8 and 1/4 is a whole different race!!
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post #7 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-02-2004, 05:34 PM
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post #8 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-02-2004, 08:54 PM
 
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That was Larry Laye on Seb's bike, that same bike & rider were the first into the 7's on a Hayabusa.

Seb's latest system was the first system to break 500 HP at the AMI shootout in the history of the event. Another bike he built for Chris Cutsinger also broke 500 HP that same event.

Can you guess which system I have on my bike?
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post #9 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-02-2004, 09:22 PM
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Seb may have been the first into the 7s with a turbo but Lee was the first one into the 7s on a busa!!
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post #10 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-03-2004, 08:50 AM
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Yup I used to tak withSeb over on Suzukihayabusa.org all the time. His systems are awesome. If I had kept my busa it would have eventually been shipped out to dennis's shop to get one of sebas systems installed.




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post #11 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-03-2004, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by stilettoR6
My point being Turbos 8 out of 10 are faster than NOS. And I believe in my opinion more controlable and reliable.
Good thing these are just opinions.


8 out of 10 times faster than NČO? Where do you come up with these figures???? NČO, if setup properly, is just as reliable/controlable and just as fast so I find your statements to be false.

A motor can lean out on a turbo just as easy as on nitrous so I don't know why the reliable statement is being made. For those that don't know, NČO is a non-flammable gas, its job is to be a carrier for oxygen. Most problems are fuel related which are the same problems with any turbo/superchaged application. IMO I think there is less to go wrong with a NČO setup, due to the fact there is less moving parts. To me the two big problems with both systems would be fuel pump failure and injector failure. Solenoid failure can happen with NČO but you can have turbo bearings/seals going bad which are spinning at very high rpm and being used everytime the motor is running. Oh well, thats my thoughts on the two.. time to get back to work.

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post #12 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-03-2004, 11:52 AM
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Proven fact turbo is safier! NOS is hard on a motor after a while, Now if you put a small shot of nos to it will hold longer! But if your using a big shot like us Once a year that things got to come apart and gone threw! Most turbo guys can go a few years on a turbo and not tear them apart!!
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post #13 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-03-2004, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by twistedspeed
Proven fact turbo is safier!
You show me the "proven" facts.

Quote:
Originally posted by twistedspeed
NOS is hard on a motor after a while
What makes it any harder than turbo or supercharging?

Quote:
Originally posted by twistedspeed
But if your using a big shot like us Once a year that things got to come apart and gone threw![/B]
If you put a huge turbo on a car or bike that has not been built for it... it's going to break something too(as in your example of using a BIG shot) If it's built right, NČO will work just as long as a turbo car or bike.

Quote:
Originally posted by twistedspeed
Most turbo guys can go a few years on a turbo and not tear them apart!!
If you're tuned right you should have no reason to tear apart anything on a nitrous setup. You will have the same wear and tear as any high output motor if you are pushing the limits. They all will need refreshing if you are going balls out with any power adder.

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post #14 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-03-2004, 12:35 PM
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In my "opinion" having built quite a few bikes with both types of system's a turbo is the only way to go if you have the money to do it
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post #15 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-03-2004, 12:36 PM
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Mostly comes to down the fact theres alot more involved running a NOS then a turbo! First we got bigger motors stock is 1127 were running 1340 and 1371 piston kits with tons of head work!
Alot easier to blow a head gasket! Then were runing anywhere from 150 to 200 shot of nos! We also run open carbs with stacks alot easier for us to suck rocks and little things on the strip. Then there getting the air/fuel ratio right if thats wrong boom! Also getting the timing right. Nos is mostly fuel like you stated and if not right your going to have problems! turbo most guys are still running the stock motor! Some of the bigger tubro they got low compression piston and stronger cranks!
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post #16 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-03-2004, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by turbospeedIII
In my "opinion" having built quite a few bikes with both types of system's a turbo is the only way to go if you have the money to do it

you can go with a turbo cheaper then going nos now days!
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post #17 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-03-2004, 12:44 PM
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From my first post on this subject the debate is about if turbo is:

1) More reliable
2) Faster

I'm not debating which is cheaper to do or whats involved in the setups. A pure turbo vs. nČo. If you can prove either of the two items above, enlighten me. So far nobody has

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post #18 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-03-2004, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by twistedspeed
Then there getting the air/fuel ratio right if thats wrong boom! Also getting the timing right. Nos is mostly fuel like you stated and if not right your going to have problems! turbo most guys are still running the stock motor! Some of the bigger tubro they got low compression piston and stronger cranks!
Same exact thing goes for turbo setups as well.

I didn't realize these things are not important with turbo

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post #19 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-03-2004, 12:57 PM
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twisted speed, dude what are you talkin about? they are both forced air setups, and there fore both have the same issues.
With NOS you can turn it on and off. Turbo is always running, therefore more wear and tear on the turbo itself. Now I got nothing against either, one isn't "Safer" than the other, if setup correctly.
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post #20 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-03-2004, 01:17 PM
 
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Tricky debate going here..

A couple of tidbits that have been demonstrated time after time are that nitrous oxide has been traditionally more controllable, but this isn't so much the case today as it once was. Anti-lag capabilities in aftermarket ECM's allow for a readily available tire blowing power supply, where in the past it was difficult to spool the turbo at the line. Nitrous is STILL more controllable, but by a much thinner margin.

Nitrous is harder on internal engine components at identical levels of power. A turbo accomplishes the increase in oxygen (needed to burn more fuel to make more power) by pushing a cushion of precompressed air into the cylinders. This is a PILLOW of air and a constant source of pressure in one direction. Nitrous, on the other hand, acts like a sledgehammer to pistons by just adding a more dense oxygen supply (and fuel of course) making for a bigger boom.

People are learning, especially in the outlaw mustang arena, that nitrous CAN be less damaging than the traditional "wet" system by utilizing the fuel injectors to add fuel for better atomization. In the outlaw mustang world, nitrous still rules simply because of their use of technology. The fuel coming in through the injectors is better atomized instead of having a propensity to form droplets thus causing unpredictable lean conditions. We all know it's the lean condition that destroys motors.

In the motorcycle world, we are beginning to see the products appear that will make nitrous a competitor in streetbike shootout. It still hasn't been proven that it works the same on smaller CC motors at higher RPM, but it is in the works. I have one such friend who is using the best technology available and he is nearing a debut in Prostar with the new system.

All that being said, today, on a motorcycle, turbo is faster, more reliable, and eats fewer motors than nitrous. Let me know specifically what you disagree with and I will provide links and other resources. This happens to be something I have studied in depth over the last few years and the reason I dumped a wad of cash into my bike preparing it for racing.
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post #21 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-03-2004, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by twistedspeed
you can go with a turbo cheaper then going nos now days!
I dont know if a agree with that.
Slap a cheep nitro on or a cheep turbo I have found NOS to be cheeper by far. but...... put a good top of the line system in and you are 100% correct. In the long run the Turbo is cheeper
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post #22 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-03-2004, 01:50 PM
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Simply saying what eliXXir said Nos is harder on the internal parts of the motor!! As you can see he knows alot more about your question then I do! We suck valves and burn pistions and alot more then tubro simply cause we got bigger motors! I never played with tubro first hand so I dont know how much damage one does when it breaks but when a nos bike break expect to come out the pocket book!!
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post #23 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-03-2004, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by turbospeedIII
I dont know if a agree with that.
Slap a cheep nitro on or a cheep turbo I have found NOS to be cheeper by far. but...... put a good top of the line system in and you are 100% correct. In the long run the Turbo is cheeper

Stage 1 turbo kit run you about 4000 installed! Now you can run a nos for cheaper but how long with the internals hold up?? A dry shot of nos is cheaper and should hold up a few years but so far the stage 1 guys are riding every day the turbo is always there no need to refill that bottle every run! So i think in 2 years of running a turbo and a nos should be about the same price!
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post #24 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-03-2004, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by OldSkoolMC
From my first post on this subject the debate is about if turbo is:

1) More reliable
2) Faster

I'm not debating which is cheaper to do or whats involved in the setups. A pure turbo vs. nČo. If you can prove either of the two items above, enlighten me. So far nobody has
IN the end turbo is more reliable and faster then Nos!! Has been and always will be!!
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post #25 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-03-2004, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by eliXXir
Let me know specifically what you disagree with and I will provide links and other resources.

If you got some links that would be awesome Id like to read up on some this more! thanks
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post #26 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-03-2004, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by eliXXir
All that being said, today, on a motorcycle, turbo is faster, more reliable, and eats fewer motors than nitrous.
Where is the proof of this? I have yet to see this proven anywhere.

Quote:
Originally posted by eliXXir
Let me know specifically what you disagree with and I will provide links and other resources. This happens to be something I have studied in depth over the last few years and the reason I dumped a wad of cash into my bike preparing it for racing.
I disagree what you say about nitrous delivery. The pillow of air theory you give is BS.

"Nitrogen acts to buffer, or dampen the increased cylinder pressures helping to control the combustion process. Nitrous also has a tremendous "intercooling" effect by reducing intake charge temperatures by 60 to 75 degrees F. " - NOS

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Last edited by OldSkoolMC; 06-03-2004 at 03:08 PM.
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post #27 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-03-2004, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by OldSkoolMC
Where is the proof of this? I have yet to see this proven anywhere.

www.amaprostar.com
www.velocityracing.com

Well their the record holder for the fastest street bike on a turbo!
Nos bikes are in the 7.80s and turbo's in the 7.40s!!
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post #28 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-03-2004, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by twistedspeed
www.amaprostar.com
www.velocityracing.com

Well their the record holder for the fastest street bike on a turbo!
Nos bikes are in the 7.80s and turbo's in the 7.40s!!
Let me bold this for you guys.....

That doesn't prove anything about being reliable or faster.

Here is a Nitrous bike that runs 6.90s in the 1/4 >

http://www.vansantent.com/raceteam.htm

Where is the proof of being more reliable or faster?? A power adder is a power adder. All three common setups can be just as fast and reliable as the rest. Until I see some proof of NČO being MORE destructive than a turbo or supercharger... I call BS.

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post #29 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-03-2004, 04:17 PM
 
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The pillow of air theory is BS?

Tell you what.. Go to www.nlrsystems.com and call Seb up, tell him who sent you, and debate the issue with him who has built nitrous bikes for years before he switched to turbos.

Call Joe Hahn at Orient Express, who has also run both and currently holds the 60" MPH record with a turbo bike.

Call up Barry Hensen at Velocity Racing, who has also run both types of power adders.

Call Doug Ray at Spencer Cycle, who has done both.

Your attitude and tone are insulting and I have no desire to have a debate with someone who just arbitrarily calls "BS" with nothing more to back it up. That's like me responding with, "Nuh uh! Liar liar, pants are on fire!" Sorry but you can have your 2nd grade debate back. I'm done here.

P.S. I too have run nitrous big bores and turbo, but apparently my experience is moot.
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post #30 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-03-2004, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by eliXXir
Your attitude and tone are insulting and I have no desire to have a debate with someone who just arbitrarily calls "BS" with nothing more to back it up.

P.S. I too have run nitrous big bores and turbo, but apparently my experience is moot.
Relax, don't get your panties in a bunch!! I'll requote what I said and I didn't arbitrarily call "BS" Please re-read. You asked if someone disagrees with you to ask and you'll post "links and other resources"

Quote:
Originally posted by OldSkoolMC
I disagree what you say about nitrous delivery. The pillow of air theory you give is BS.

"Nitrogen acts to buffer, or dampen the increased cylinder pressures helping to control the combustion process. Nitrous also has a tremendous "intercooling" effect by reducing intake charge temperatures by 60 to 75 degrees F. " - NOS
Maybe I should of stated it this way.... the pillow of air theory IMO is BS because of the way you stated it. Like the "pillow" makes it easier on the motor. Compression is compresson no matter how it's achieved, period. With turbos you are blowing hot air which makes less power vs. a cool shot of Nitrous.... that is the reason MANY, MANY turbo guys use a small shot of nitrous to cool the intake temps.

Your statement "Nitrous is harder on internal engine components at identical levels of power. " Where is the proof of this? That's all I'm asking for. If the motor is setup right, it won't be any harder on internal engine components. Once again, compression is compression. Detonation can happen on turbos just as easy as nitrous.

If you get back on track to what this whole debate was over, it was
over reliability and power. And yet nobody including yourself has proven any real facts about reliability of turbo over nitrous. No need to get upset about it. I've run plenty of nitrous setups and have run superchargers as well as turbos. I'm very far from being new at the game of making horsepower. I can show you in person a nitrous motor thats putting down well over 1100hp with no reliability issues.

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