Wheelieing the 250! - Chicagoland Sportbikes
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post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-24-2005, 12:32 AM Thread Starter
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Wheelieing the 250!

Yup, I've been riding for long enough that I feel pretty confident on my little Ninja 250, so I've been working on wheelies. I just thought I'd share my experiances so far and at the very least give you guys a good laugh. Not a chance anyone else has one-wheel experiance on a 250 is there?

Obviously, clutching is the only way to get that front tire off the ground, and I don't have much luck in any gear higher than first. If I run at about 5k in first (10-15 mph) and pull the clutch in while revving it up to about 10-11k and snap the clutch back out, I can pull 2ft pretty easily. I'm not real comfortable with keeping the throttle pegged, since it pulls up pretty quick. It's a bit tricky matching the rpm and throttle amount when I release the clutch to pull air without it feeling like it's going to loop. As of yet I haven't been able to ride it very far, since I'm well forward of the balance point and I run out of rpm in first pretty fast (redline at 14k).

I've tried second gear and it just lifts a bit of weight off the front as the clutch momentarily slips until the engine bogs. Even when I ride along at about 6k and drop the cluth at 12. Second gear may be possible, but I'll have to work on it harder.

I haven't tried standing up that much; I have a hard time keeping the bars straight when I'm standing diagonally (right foot on front peg, left on passenger peg). When I dump the clutch, the force yanks me back pretty hard and since I'm kinda standing sideways, the handlebars jerk to one side. I guess it's just something I have to practice with.

I'm sure I just need to practice with it more to get the feel for wheelies. It's a pretty cool feeling though. I'll let you know how it goes, and hopefully I won't drop the bike trying!

"Only gods live forever with Shamash, my friend; for even our longest days are numbered. Why worry over being like dust in the wind? Leap up for this great threat. Fear not. Even if I were to fail and fall in combat, all future clans would say I did the job."

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post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-24-2005, 01:34 AM
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[QUOTE=SeththeRuthless]Yup, I've been riding for long enough that I feel pretty confident on my little Ninja 250, so I've been working on wheelies.



Sorry to be the bearer of bad news & believe me I'm not trying to be offensive. Don't get too confident after 2 mos riding. That's when it'll bite 'cha. There are many skills & safe habits you should be practicing instead of working on wheelies. I've been riding 5 years & haven't ridden a wheelie out yet. I've picked up the front from time to time so I'm not saying you shouldn't do it. Just noticed how long you've been riding & thought I'd throw a bit of caution your way.

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post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-24-2005, 07:43 AM
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Yeah...be careful.

I pulled a wheelie on my 250R last year, completely on accident. The throttle response is so slow on that bike, it's just not good for controlled wheelies; I defintely spooked myself as I had only been riding a few months at the time to.

I've yet to lift the front on my F3 though, and don't plan on it.

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post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-24-2005, 07:47 AM
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Hey, get some pics of you wheelie-ing that 250. I have to say that's pretty cool.

Just make sure you're not doing it in traffic.

Never a bad time to climb... unless the weather is really horrible, and then you climb inside!

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post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-24-2005, 08:06 AM
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Hey I had 250 not long time ago.(sold 3 weeks ago)
Stop doing wheelies, you will kill that little thing.
Sell it to the others so they can learn how to ride, and get
yourself used F3. Good bike, and you can pop the wheelie any time
you want. (just wait until you crash, and will be no more wheelies for you).
I drove 250 for 2 seasons, learn as much as I could, got a bigger bike
but no wheelies for me. I have a family and kid, so I have to watch out.


p.s: If you want to keep this 250 change the tires, you will see how much difference it makes on cornering. Go also here and read, good guys and great forum.
http://www.forums.ninja250.net/

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post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-24-2005, 08:36 AM
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I wouldnt try wheelies till your tires are worn all the way to the edge, but thats just me talkin.

A 250 your gona have to beat up pretty bad to get her off the ground.




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post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-24-2005, 09:17 AM
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Make sure to cover the rear brake. If ya get hold of that, you won't have to worry about stayin on the gas.
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post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-24-2005, 10:40 PM Thread Starter
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Hehe, I knew I'd catch some flak for this one. I'm not getting too crazy or anything, I'm just trying to expand a bit. I fully realize how easy it would be to slip up just a bit and drop my ass on the pavement. Thanks for the concern, I sure don't wish to bust up either myself or the bike.

I have decided 2nd gear wheelies aren't a possibility unless you did some pretty extensive weight shifting. Since that leaves wheelies to first gear, they're not really very rideable since it is so touchy, so I usually just time the rpm right so that it pulls a few feet off the ground well below the balance point for a little bit and then drops back down as the engine pulls up past the powerband. I've only had to catch it with the rear brake a couple times, but it is so sensitive I that it would take a rider with considerable skill to ride it very far.

I think I'm stuck with the stock tires for the duration I own the bike. I'm pushing 5500 miles on it, and I've heard of riders getting 14,000 miles out of the stock tires! Now that's some hard rubber! I do consider the road surface when I'm riding but a few times my wheelie attempts have just resulted in a rolling burnout (lousy tar-and-chip rural roads!).

I will admit I can be kinda hard on my little ride. When I first started riding, I was getting a bit over 70 mpg, and that has since fallen to about 60. I'm not trying to kill it, but I am trying to extract the most that I can. It's not like I take it to redline from every stop; most of the time I'm fairly gentle, but when I do get on it I don't play around. I'm trying to perfect my launch technique, but it's pretty tough to take off with much of a launch without bogging the little torque-deficient motor. I usually rev it to about 5k or 6k and let the clutch out slowly enough to keep the rpm up while the throttle is pegged. It's actually a bit faster if I shift at around 13k, because power is falling by then anyway and winding it to the 14.5k rev limiter is pointless.

"Only gods live forever with Shamash, my friend; for even our longest days are numbered. Why worry over being like dust in the wind? Leap up for this great threat. Fear not. Even if I were to fail and fall in combat, all future clans would say I did the job."

Gilgamesh's words of advice to Enkidu
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post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-24-2005, 10:46 PM
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u could get some sprockets for it
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post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-24-2005, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeththeRuthless
It's actually a bit faster if I shift at around 13k, because power is falling by then anyway and winding it to the 14.5k rev limiter is pointless.
Yeah, I've topped out my Ninja at 106mph in 6th, but I bet it would run just a few clicks higher in 5th gear, since the revs where below 12K at the timel it just wouldn't go any faster LOL

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post #11 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-25-2005, 01:57 AM
i need a new bike, this one is trashed
 
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I learnt wheelies on a Yamaha rx135- 2stroke.. great to learn on(it lies parked in a land far far away). Looped it once but thanks to the lightness of the bike I put my feet down and held the bike standing up vertically with the taillight resting on the pavement. Also I was 2-up at the time(the cause of the loop) and he landed on his butt - no injuries.( see pic)

My friend had a 150cc 4-stroke which we both use to hold it up pretty much all through 1st gear.

Could bring both the bikes up in 2nd(not easily) but not enough to reach the balance point.
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post #12 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-25-2005, 02:02 AM
i need a new bike, this one is trashed
 
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Look he's still smilling.
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post #13 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-26-2005, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeththeRuthless
I've only had to catch it with the rear brake a couple times, but it is so sensitive I that it would take a rider with considerable skill to ride it very far.

if you're catching it with the brake like you say you are there is no reason you can't ride them for as far as you like. That thing will come up in 2nd also if you use the clutch. Don't kill yourself though
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post #14 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-26-2005, 05:56 PM
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<----doesn't even wheelie his moutain bike

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post #15 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-26-2005, 06:14 PM
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that's your own loss. I like to expand my riding abilities and do everything. Because I stunt I feel I'm a much better street rider because I know what to expect in what would normally be a "crashing" situation. That may not sound right but I feel a lot more at one with the bike because of wheelies. Especially when you have enough control so speed up, slow down, turn, all in a wheelie
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post #16 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-26-2005, 06:43 PM
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NickIF - I was thinking the same thing...stunters should theoretically have superior control of their motorcycle when the real-world requires them to swerve or threshold brake to avoid a crash. Would you agree?
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post #17 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-26-2005, 08:11 PM Thread Starter
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I would think that the better control a person who can stunt well should contribute to better riding, I think it's probably the control of the mind that gets people in trouble!

Again, I'm not going crazy here, I'm just trying to gain some new experiance and skill. I'm taking it easy and slowly getting a feel for it, but I'm nowhere near being able to ride it at the balance point.

I'm pretty sure my bike won't come up in 2nd. The clutch doesn't hold quite well enough when I drop it, but it might just be weak clutch springs since it only slips when I'm trying to dump it in 2nd or running up through the gears really hard. I've only got about 5,500 miles on it, so I wouldn't think the clutch would be gone yet. I don't know how previous owners have treated it, but I would take some pretty serious abuse to fry a clutch that quick.

"Only gods live forever with Shamash, my friend; for even our longest days are numbered. Why worry over being like dust in the wind? Leap up for this great threat. Fear not. Even if I were to fail and fall in combat, all future clans would say I did the job."

Gilgamesh's words of advice to Enkidu
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post #18 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-26-2005, 09:14 PM
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i found a key to popping it up in higher gears is how much throttle you have on when you drop the clutch, its not just a matter of revving it really high without a lot of throttle on, i bet w practice 2nd will work, 1st is the place to learn though

+3 on rear brake control, pop it up and instead of letting up on the gas, control the height with brake modulation, it'll be a be a big help since your bike doesn;t have the power, in addition to being much safer

Causally determined by various factors, only some of which I know about.
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post #19 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-27-2005, 01:29 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the tips Billy; I'll give 'em a shot. I have noticed that throttle position when I dump the clutch is more important than the rpm since throttle affects the power output and the inertial momentum simply from the rpm difference is much less. I am able to get a predictable result with different combinations of rpm and throttle now that I've been playing with it for a while.

So I shouldn't worry about snapping the clutch as long as I keep my foot on the brake so I can catch it quickly? I'm pretty cautious about taking it very far up since I don't know how to feel the balance point and I'm a bit nervous about looping it. But that's why I'm taking it slow while I get the feel for it just like learning anything else new.

"Only gods live forever with Shamash, my friend; for even our longest days are numbered. Why worry over being like dust in the wind? Leap up for this great threat. Fear not. Even if I were to fail and fall in combat, all future clans would say I did the job."

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post #20 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-27-2005, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeththeRuthless
But that's why I'm taking it slow while I get the feel for it just like learning anything else new.
good way to go, as well as gear, sooner or later w practice it won't be scary

once your more comfortable w it, getting the ft up quick will help you carry it further since you won't use the revs to get the ft higher if you pop it up low, same for using the brake, it'll help not to waste power when you have to back off then get back on the gas, instead you just control it w the brake

you feel the bp when the front gets light and you have to back off the gas or hit the brake to keep from looping, it hardly takes any power at all to ride at the bp, which is why you could do it on your 250, or even a scooter or whatever. so you can see, NickIF's avatar frog wheelie or tank stander is right at it, same for my avatar pretty much is just. the approx height varies w the type of wheelie, but its pretty high

Causally determined by various factors, only some of which I know about.

Last edited by Billyboy; 06-27-2005 at 06:51 PM.
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post #21 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-28-2005, 01:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by half-fastracing
NickIF - I was thinking the same thing...stunters should theoretically have superior control of their motorcycle when the real-world requires them to swerve or threshold brake to avoid a crash. Would you agree?

exactly, my motorcycle feels like an extension of my arms
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post #22 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-05-2005, 11:22 PM
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My little 250 wheelies just by yanking on the bars. Seth.. I think you got the wrong kind of 250
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post #23 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-07-2005, 12:47 PM
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I knew there was a reason that Seth got the full coverage insurance. I can see him explaining it to the insurance adjuster "I was out on 42nt road, there was no one in sight, so I... next thing I knew there was a Farmall M pulling 3 full bail cages bearing on my 250 which had gotten out from under me some how."
But I think that it is much more likely to happen to Keith or Art on their Dads 250
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post #24 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-08-2005, 12:02 AM Thread Starter
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C'mon Hugh, do you have to give me trouble all the time?

Doesn't sound much different than your explantion: "I was parked on a back road when out of nowhere this crazy lady just backed right over my bike with her car."

"Only gods live forever with Shamash, my friend; for even our longest days are numbered. Why worry over being like dust in the wind? Leap up for this great threat. Fear not. Even if I were to fail and fall in combat, all future clans would say I did the job."

Gilgamesh's words of advice to Enkidu
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