Consider myself lucky, or fight? - Chicagoland Sportbikes
Chicagoland Sportbikes
 
Traffic Violations Advice Corner Got screwed lately? Get advise from others that dealt with it.

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-02-2007, 11:25 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: joliet il
Posts: 25
Location: joliet il
Sportbike: 05 busa, 07 R1
Years Riding: since feb o6
How you found us: chicago riders
       
Consider myself lucky, or fight?

i was way up north w a couple a friends and we were movin at a good clip. prolly doin well over 100. an oncoming cop turns around and pulls me (the lead bike) and another over and instructs us into the gas station. I 'm thinkin to myself "if he saw any of the last mile or so, I'm fukt" Cop goes through the usual...you know why i'm puling you over, how fast you were going? crap. I'm cool, give him my papers and yes sir him the whole way. The cop says he radared the rider behind me at 65 in a 45 because he fell asleep at the trigger but he "assumes" a lot faster. Here is were it gets tricky. THe cop admitted that he DID NOT CLOCK ME! He says that since I was the "lead bike" that i must have been going as fast or faster. I know i should just consider myself lucky, pay the fine, go to school, and be done cuz it coulda been worse...and the cop was actually being cool. I guess this is more of a procedural question. Can a cop radar to different targets as close as we were and if he didn't actually "clock me" can i raise this technicality???
fuggdatnoyz is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-02-2007, 11:38 PM
Si Vis Pacem Parabellum
 
SmartDrug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bartlett
Posts: 11,409
Location: Bartlett
Sportbike: 955i Speed Triple, 100AE Road King, AP1 Honda S2000
Years Riding: 1/3rd of my life.
How you found us: Cave Johnson
           
Count your blessings, pay the ticket, do the class and move on. My $.02.

Brian
NESBA #22
الكافرة مع بندقية سوداء
Si vis pacem parabellum

Quote:
Yeah, I quit doing blow, not being rad!
SmartDrug is offline  
post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-02-2007, 11:51 PM
Weapons Tech Guru
 
Ofc. Ponch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: MUNSTER, IN.
Posts: 5,153
Location: MUNSTER, IN.
Sportbike: Borrowed Ones
Years Riding: 11
How you found us: through SBN
           
Send a message via Yahoo to Ofc. Ponch
20 over, I wish

Arrogance has to be earned.
Serve, Protect and Break a ......
Ofc. Ponch is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-02-2007, 11:58 PM
YO MAMA
 
Odysseys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: balls deep in someones mom
Posts: 60,261
Location: balls deep in someones mom
Sportbike: 2010 Electra Glide Police Edition 103cu
Years Riding: a long time!
           
he in turn affectly issued you a ticket based on speed.

not hard to figure out, so your hosed.

pay the ticket.



Odysseys is offline  
post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-03-2007, 12:49 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Arlington Heights
Posts: 298
Location: Arlington Heights
Sportbike: ZX6R RIP............ 02 VFR RED
Years Riding: Second category rider.
How you found us: Friend
           
If it was me.
I would separate the cases. Your friend got clocked, so he should decide whether he wants to fight it or not.

Now, you didn't, so ask to reschedule the date, to go after your friend is done. And deny being a lead rider, say you were riding on your own. It won't effect your friends punishment and you can help him to pay for his ticket if you get off.

On the other hand if it far away just paying the fine might be cheaper.


George
Gosha is offline  
post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-03-2007, 07:59 AM
Irony helps us play!
 
Arch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: N'ville
Posts: 29,508
Location: N'ville
Sportbike: 2000 F4
Years Riding: Long enough to know better
How you found us: some hot MILF whispered it in my ear
           
You were riding alone and then another group came up behind you.

"They were gaining on me in my mirrors"


Just because we might 'all look alike' doesn't mean we all know each other and ride with each other.

Everyone Exaggerates

We're being taken for a ride... agaaaaaaain.....


Best Auto/Moto Insurance | Motorcycle Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote
Arch is offline  
post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-03-2007, 08:38 AM
The Violator
 
Troy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Lombard
Posts: 4,101
Location: Lombard
Sportbike: A little bit of everything.
Years Riding: Not nearly enough!
How you found us: On a ride in Colorado
           
There is always a chance the citing officer will not make the court date. Especially if it is rescheduled once or more with as little notice as possible
Troy is offline  
post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-03-2007, 08:53 AM
Moderator
 
Chills's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Naperville, IL
Posts: 23,640
Location: Naperville, IL
Sportbike: Kawi ZX-10R
Years Riding: Since February 2012
How you found us: NESBA bbs
           
Send a message via Yahoo to Chills
I'd pay the ticket and consider yourself lucky.

If you fight it and the cop shows up he'll testify that you were in front of the bike that got clocked. He can say that he saw you for enough time to make it obvious that you were going about the same speed at the bike behind you.

IMHO its not worth fighting. You broke the law, got caught, so man up and pay the fine.

Never a bad time to climb... unless the weather is really horrible, and then you climb inside!

I bleed GREEN
Chills is offline  
post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-03-2007, 09:03 AM
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,321
           
I've never fought a ticket so I'm wondering a couple things:

-is there a significant fee for taking it to court?

-is the fine bigger if you fight it and lose?

-(thread specific) can you get there and back and use a sick day from work?

it's dependent on what he says. Like Chills pointed out, if he saw you both for long enough to see that the guy wasn't gaining on you you're screwed, but if he just clocked the 2nd guy and assumed you were together going the same speed it might be worth it to fight
Ninja 13 is offline  
post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-03-2007, 09:10 AM
BSB > WSBK > MotoGP
 
shadrach's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: South Loop & Cary
Posts: 11,948
Location: South Loop & Cary
Sportbike: '02 GSXR 600 / '98 CBRF3
Years Riding: Since '03
How you found us: Google
           
You admitted you were driving at well over 100mph so just man up and pay the fine. Take responsibilty for your actions.

Jeff
NESBA #311
'02 GSXR600
'98
Smokin' Joe's F3
shadrach is offline  
post #11 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-03-2007, 10:03 AM
Enjoying Life!!
 
CHeYeNNe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Cruising Around Enjoying Life!!
Posts: 17,773
Location: Cruising Around Enjoying Life!!
Sportbike: 09 Night Rod Black Denim
Years Riding: Not Long Enuff!!!!
How you found us: Friends
           
Go to court plead guilty with supervision and no school

I NEVER send in a ticket for school and supervision. I go to court and pay the fine with supervision and NO school. FUCK THAT SCHOOL!!!


I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later!!
CHeYeNNe is offline  
post #12 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-03-2007, 10:10 AM
Retired but still working
 
Dean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Plainfield, IL
Posts: 1,089
Location: Plainfield, IL
Sportbike: 1994 H/D Softail Custom
Years Riding: Long Enough
How you found us: search
           
Send a message via Yahoo to Dean
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuggdatnoyz View Post
I guess this is more of a procedural question. Can a cop radar to different targets as close as we were and if he didn't actually "clock me" can i raise this technicality???
First... the simple answer to the question is Yes. Similar to individuals charged with "drag racing" on public streets, an officer can only lock in one vehicle at a time - whether it is by pace, dash mounted, hand-held standard band or Laser type radars. It is the officer's testimony that will either sink you or let you swim away.
Next... if the officer openly admitted this to you, went through the explanation on how he will be issuing the citations based on his observations; he is more than likely well aware of the Judge and State's Attorney position. Again, he knows what his testimony can offer to these people.
Third... he will more than likely not miss the court date. Just because you do not see him does not mean he is not there. Officers are sometimes kept out of the courtroom depending on court-call size and structure. The continuance thing only works if you get lucky. In most jurisdictions (not county or City of Chicago levels) court dates are mandatory for officers unless they have conflicting dates in criminal court that interferes with traffic court.
Finally... supervision and a lesser fine usually only applies if you plead guilty and request supervision. As long as you do not have any other moving violations on your record for about a year or so, you will most likely get a $75.00 fine, 6 months supervision and / or have to attend a one day school. However, if you plead innocent and request a trial - whether by judge or by jury - Judges are a lot less likely to offer supervision (almost never). Thus, you will pay $75 anyway and now it is a 12 month hit on your record.

Dean

What do the internet and Channel 11 have in common? They are both a window to the world; put it out there and do not be surprised who will see it.
Dean is offline  
post #13 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-03-2007, 10:14 AM
Enjoying Life!!
 
CHeYeNNe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Cruising Around Enjoying Life!!
Posts: 17,773
Location: Cruising Around Enjoying Life!!
Sportbike: 09 Night Rod Black Denim
Years Riding: Not Long Enuff!!!!
How you found us: Friends
           
Quote:
Originally Posted by dc2004600 View Post
Thus, you will pay $75 anyway and now it is a 12 month hit on your record.

and a 3-5 year hit on your insurance depending how far back they go


I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later!!
CHeYeNNe is offline  
post #14 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-03-2007, 10:29 AM
The Violator
 
Troy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Lombard
Posts: 4,101
Location: Lombard
Sportbike: A little bit of everything.
Years Riding: Not nearly enough!
How you found us: On a ride in Colorado
           
I'm all about taking responsibility for one's actions but the fashion with which our government uses traffic citations to generate revenue pisses me off.

I say fight every ticket you get, every time, regardless of rhyme or reason. Time spent in court = time not spent writing more tickets.
Troy is offline  
post #15 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-03-2007, 10:33 AM
Irony helps us play!
 
Arch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: N'ville
Posts: 29,508
Location: N'ville
Sportbike: 2000 F4
Years Riding: Long enough to know better
How you found us: some hot MILF whispered it in my ear
           
Quote:
Originally Posted by XXSIVSPD View Post
I'm all about taking responsibility for one's actions but the fashion with which our government uses traffic citations to generate revenue pisses me off.

I say fight every ticket you get, every time, regardless of rhyme or reason. Time spent in court = time not spent writing more tickets.
Time spend in court also means more of your tax money being used to pay them to be in court, not to mention time money and effort to punch your 'case' through the 'system'. Either way, you're paying something

Everyone Exaggerates

We're being taken for a ride... agaaaaaaain.....


Best Auto/Moto Insurance | Motorcycle Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote
Arch is offline  
post #16 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-03-2007, 10:49 AM
Infectious Human Waste
 
Milenko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Back in B-Town
Posts: 5,497
Location: Back in B-Town
Sportbike: <600cc's
Years Riding: 9
How you found us: .
           
Send a message via AIM to Milenko Send a message via Yahoo to Milenko
FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT! Fight every ticket you can. At worse work out a plea.

Even heroes know when to be scared.
..As I shifted into 6th, I forgot every f'in thing she said..
Im a fuel injected suicide machine!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Criminalgrrl View Post
I'd let him pee in my butt
Milenko is offline  
post #17 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-03-2007, 10:52 AM
Irony helps us play!
 
Arch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: N'ville
Posts: 29,508
Location: N'ville
Sportbike: 2000 F4
Years Riding: Long enough to know better
How you found us: some hot MILF whispered it in my ear
           
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milenko View Post
FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT! Fight every ticket you can. At worse work out a plea.
Most of the time you are offered that right off the bat when you show up.

90 days supervision and pay the $75.00 NEXT! I love it.

Everyone Exaggerates

We're being taken for a ride... agaaaaaaain.....


Best Auto/Moto Insurance | Motorcycle Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote
Arch is offline  
post #18 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-03-2007, 10:52 AM
The Violator
 
Troy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Lombard
Posts: 4,101
Location: Lombard
Sportbike: A little bit of everything.
Years Riding: Not nearly enough!
How you found us: On a ride in Colorado
           
I agree. Gotta pay the man one way or another. I still subscribe to the theory of challenge every ticket though. Always have, always will.
Troy is offline  
post #19 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-03-2007, 11:10 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Arlington Heights
Posts: 298
Location: Arlington Heights
Sportbike: ZX6R RIP............ 02 VFR RED
Years Riding: Second category rider.
How you found us: Friend
           
I always go to court and either plea guilty or not, yes I was found guilty in most of the cases but fines were $15-$50 with no supervision.

My brother on the other hand believes in just paying and going to school. He says that once they have your money they don't care. His last record was 6 speeding tickets in 6 month, he just beat it by 7 tickets last month (all settled).

Neither one of us have a record.

George
Gosha is offline  
post #20 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-03-2007, 05:41 PM
1 piece at a time
 
hexraptor's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Posts: 6,316
Location: Woodstock, IL
Sportbike: Ninja ZX-6'DinoSaki'
Years Riding: Since I joined!
How you found us: teh intarwebz
           
Send a message via AIM to hexraptor Send a message via MSN to hexraptor Send a message via Yahoo to hexraptor
how do you fight a ticket??? I have a court date for speeding 17 over in a 55, but not sure how you go about doing this? Any help would be appreciated

- Steve
hexraptor is offline  
post #21 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-03-2007, 06:05 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Arlington Heights
Posts: 298
Location: Arlington Heights
Sportbike: ZX6R RIP............ 02 VFR RED
Years Riding: Second category rider.
How you found us: Friend
           
Quote:
Originally Posted by hexraptor View Post
how do you fight a ticket??? I have a court date for speeding 17 over in a 55, but not sure how you go about doing this? Any help would be appreciated
Everything a cop say is a fact(at first). If you can put put a question mark on it in judge's mind, you are free to go.

Ex: Your honor I was riding along and noticed a police cruiser. I checked my speed and I was with in the limit. Then I noticed a fast moving motorcycle behind who slowed down rapidly. Next thing I know I get pulled over, along with a rider behind me and a police officer says that his finger "fell asleep" on the radar and that's why he clocked the second rider and not me.

Make sound good and you are fine.

George
Gosha is offline  
post #22 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-03-2007, 10:43 PM
1 piece at a time
 
hexraptor's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Posts: 6,316
Location: Woodstock, IL
Sportbike: Ninja ZX-6'DinoSaki'
Years Riding: Since I joined!
How you found us: teh intarwebz
           
Send a message via AIM to hexraptor Send a message via MSN to hexraptor Send a message via Yahoo to hexraptor
there was no one else around me, bend in the road at night.

- Steve
hexraptor is offline  
post #23 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-07-2007, 05:25 PM
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,225
           
This would be so easy to win. Fight

He says he clocked one bike behind you at 65mph. So he saw you go faster or assumes you must have been faster.

If he assumes, as soon as he says that in court, say objection your honor, The officer is stating speculation. This is speculation, since no one but you can testify as to what you actually saw/speed you were going.

Do this if he says he saw you:

Visual Estimate:

Visual Estimating is a technical term for guessing. In this method the officer is relying on his authority as an officer. He will testify that he determined your speed through observation and based on his experience. This type of citation is extremely rare since the officer knows that he has minimal odds in court if you actually challenge his speed estimating abilities. To counter the officer’s alleged
ability, take any object and hold it straight out at arm's length from your shoulder.

Ask the officer to tell you how fast the object was traveling. If you want to be really nasty use a light object and a heavy object. If he gives a different speeds, point out that all objects fall at the rate of 32 feet per second squared, regardless of their weight. Be sure to have the appropriate data on your notepad (based on your height) from the following table:

Distance Speed
3.5 Feet 10.2 MPH
4.0 Feet 10.9 MPH
4.5 Feet 11.6 MPH
5.0 Feet 12.2 MPH
5.5 Feet 12.8 MPH
6.0 Feet 13.4 MPH

Let’s say that you received a citation for 65 MPH in a 55 MPH zone. You drop an
object from a height of 5.0 feet and the officer estimates 15 MPH. From the chart you can see that he was off by 2.8 MPH. You should also precalculate the ratio between your citation speed and the speed that your object will drop based on your height. In this case: 65 MPH / 12.2 MPH = 5.3 ratio factor. After the officer
guesses his speed, you need to determine the amount of his error (2.8 MPH in this example) and multiply this amount by the ratio factor.

As you can see, the officer could have been off by as much as 14.9 MPH in this example (2.8 MPH x 5.3 ratio factor). At this point the officer should be suitably defeated and the judge should be awaiting your motion to dismiss.

Last edited by achapman; 05-07-2007 at 05:34 PM.
achapman is offline  
post #24 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-07-2007, 05:48 PM
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,321
           
Quote:
Originally Posted by achapman View Post
(all his ticket questioning info)...just see above, you probably just read it anyway

between the .rar file you linked us to and now this post...1)how many tickets do you get annually and how many stick; 2) where did you come by this vast ticket evading info?
Ninja 13 is offline  
post #25 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-07-2007, 07:35 PM

 
Brian#803's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pewaukee, Wi
Posts: 908
Location: Pewaukee, Wi
Sportbike: Track: 08 GSXR 1000; 08 GSXR 1000; 2005 R6 Dirt: 08 CRF 250 06 KLX 110
Years Riding: 15 years
How you found us: NESBA
           
I found this awhile back...haven't gotten a ticket so I don't know if it works or not...but I thought I would post it for discussion. Personally..I would like to know if it works.

This is what your supposed to do if the officer shows up for the courtdate.

Officer Takes The Stand:
The prosecution’s direct examination will go something like this:
PROSECUTOR – Please state your name and number of years on the force.
OFFICER – My name is Officer Griffith and I have been on the force for 15 years.
PROSECUTOR – Would you please tell the court how you observed the defendant speeding?”
OFFICER – On Jan 21, I was situated in the median of the highway on
I-95 facing south in-between mile marker 26 and 27 when I clocked the defendant traveling at 72 mph, 12 miles above the posted speed limit in his white 99 Pontiac Grand Am, license plate number HHT-810. I clocked him speeding with my hand held radar unit. Before using it, I checked the unit for any outside interference and concluded that there was none substantial that could have altered the reading in any way.
PROSECUTOR – Did you have a clear look at the defendant’s vehicle?
OFFICER – Yes I did, traffic was light that day and no barriers or obstructions between our paths.
PROSECUTOR – This radar unit used to measure the defendants speed, was it functioning properly? If so, how do you know?
OFFICER - Yes, the radar gun was functioning properly at the time the violation occurred. Earlier that day, I tested the unit by pushing the internal check button. The preprogrammed speed showed on the screen. I then checked the device using special tuning forks set at different speeds. Later, after the ticket was issued, I went back to my vehicle and conducted a second test with the tuning forks. Everything was working just fine.
PROSECUTOR - With regards to the radar gun, what kind of training do you have?
Now the officer will go on and on about his training and certifications and how he's the best and he's been working with radar guns for 15 years and how he recently finished mandatory training school and blah blah blah. He will do a very good job at convincing you and everyone in the courtroom how much of a “professional” he is on radar guns.

Now the prosecutor will emphasize the fact that the radar gun was in working order.
PROSECUTOR – In your professional judgment, was there anything wrong with the radar gun prior to stopping the defendant that could have altered the reading? Has the radar gun undergone any major repairs?
OFFICER – No, there was absolutely nothing wrong with the unit. It is only several months old. I conducted all required procedures to ensure an accurate reading. I also checked for any outside interferences.
PROSECUTOR – Prosecution rests its case Your Honor.
Now, the prosecution thinks it's got you right where it wants you. The prosecution will sit down and the judge will ask you if you would like to cross examine the witness.
Now it is your turn to ask the questions. Make it short and sweet. The fewer questions you ask the better. Get this over with as soon as possible. Attack with your very first question and take him down from there.
Stick to the objective and don't get side tracked. You're only here to attack the prosecution’s evidence and not prove your innocence.
SPECIAL NOTE: It is assumed that you have thoroughly listened to the officer’s testimony for any required steps he may have omitted. For the sake of simplicity we will also assume that the officer testified to everything he was supposed to testify to. If he didn’t, refer back to The Testimony Counterattack.

SCENARIO #1
Officer Testifies To Testing The Radar Gun:
DEFENDANT – Officer, who conducted the testing on the radar gun?
Many times a first shift officer will test the radar gun and hand it over to the second shift which in turn will hand it over to the third shift officers. Other times there are two officers in the squad car and only one of them tested the unit.
If the officer on the stand is not the same officer who conducted the test, I would motion for a dismissal if the officer that performed the actual test is not present in court. Remember that only the officer that actually performed the test can testify to doing so.
OFFICER – Officer Dugan performed the test.
DEFENDANT - Is Officer Dugan in the courtroom today?
OFFICER – No he is not.
DEFENDANT – Your Honor, the officer has just testified that he was not the one who performed the accuracy test on the radar gun. He has also testified that the officer who performed these tests is currently not in the courtroom today. Unless the officer who performed these tests is in court to testify right now as to performing the tests, I motion for a dismissal.
If the officer on the stand is the same one who performed the test on the radar unit:
DEFENDANT – Officer, you claim that you tested the radar gun on the day I was ticketed. Can you provide an arrest log or activity log showing the time and date you performed this test? (It's important that he show you BOTH before and after the arrest).
If the officer can not provide an arrest log (or activity log) that documents these tests being performed I would ask for a dismissal.
If he does provide a log, check for these things:
1. Original document (Best Evidence Rule).

2. The arrest log is for the exact radar gun being used (match serial numbers).
3. Performed the test before and after the ticket was written.
4. The radar gun was checked out that day by the same officer. (Police officers must sign for the radar gun they will be using that day. The arrest log will show who the radar gun was issued to. Match up the names).
5. The arrest log is for the exact date and time you were ticketed.
Okay, let’s handle each one separately:
Let's say the officer does provide an activity log. Make sure it is not a photocopy.
If it is...
DEFENDANT- Your Honor, this activity log the officer has provided is not the original. I ask that an original copy be presented if available as stated in the Best Evidence Rule. If an original is not available please have the prosecution submit evidence that the original activity log is not available and prove that this is a genuine copy of the original. If they fail to do so, I object to a photocopy being introduced as evidence.
OR
Let's say the judge denies your motion or the activity log the prosecution has presented is an original document. Next you will want to match the serial number of the gun being used that day with the one in the activity log.
Make sure they match!
DEFENDANT- Officer, what is the serial number of the radar gun used to clock my speed?
If he says he doesn’t know, I would request that the activity log be inadmissible as evidence:

DEFENDANT- Your Honor, the police officer doesn’t know the serial number of the radar gun he used to clock my speed. Since he does not know this crucial piece of information he can not, to a legal degree of certainty, say that this activity log the prosecution has furnished is for
the exact radar gun he used. I motion for the court to reject this activity log as evidence.
If the officer does know and the activity log shows a different serial number:
OFFICER - The Serial # is 12302.
DEFENDANT- Your Honor, the radar gun I was clocked with is serial number 12302. The activity log the prosecution has presented is for radar gun 23450. Since these are not one in the same radar guns, I motion to the court for a dismissal. (Paper work always gets mixed up.)
OR
Check to see that the officer performed the test before and after the arrest. If it shows that the officer only performed the test before the arrest, I would ask for a dismissal.
DEFENDANT- Your Honor, this activity log only shows a test before the officer ticketed me. There is nothing in here that shows a test being performed after the arrest was made, as every radar manual suggests and as dictated in the case laws I have furnished. Since this vital test was not done, the radar gun can not be considered accurate in the eyes of the law. I motion for a dismissal.
OR
While looking at the activity log, make sure the officer testifying is the same one on the log. Before the officer goes to court someone else will usually give him the log to bring with him. It’s very possible that this other person gave the officer the wrong log book. Actually, from my experience this happens about 40% of the time.
If that’s the case...
DEFENDANT- Your Honor, the prosecution has presented an activity log that has a different officer’s name on it. Since this is not the same officer who administered the traffic stop and is not here to testify, I motion for a dismissal. (Again, paper work gets mixed up.)
OR
Compare dates and times on the activity log with the exact date and time you were ticketed. If they don't match up, ask for a dismissal.

I told you this stuff is pretty easy. So far so good, right? As you can see, it's pretty straight forward. Just look for certain things that must be present and if they are not or if things don't match up, simply ask for a dismissal.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DEFENDANT – Mr. Officer, when you target vehicles using a stationary radar unit, that is when you are situated on the side of the road, is there a scope for you to look through so that you can clearly aim at specific vehicles to ensure you are targeting the right vehicle?
OFFICER – Yes.
DEFENDANT – Being that you used moving radar, did you use this scope to target my vehicle?
OFFICER – No. (He will say no because it is impossible and not to mention dangerous for him to look through the scope of the radar unit while it is fixed to his dash and drive his vehicle at the same time.)

DEFENDANT – Then officer, how did you determine that my vehicle and only my vehicle was the one that gave the speed reading on your radar unit?
Now it really doesn’t matter what he says. You have damaged his testimony enough to have your case dismissed.
DEFENDANT – Your Honor, the laws of physics prove that as a radar beam travels it also widens. This width can be as wide as 400 feet. As such, since the officer did not specifically target my vehicle, he can not to a legal degree of certainty say that my vehicle and only my vehicle caused the reading on his radar unit. I motion for a dismissal.
If you’ve made it this far and the judge has still not dismissed the case, you’re last recourse is to make known the numerous errors that can occur with moving radar. The more you can give… the better. The objective here is to reiterate the fact that some or all of these errors could have occurred while the officer was attempting to calculate your speed.
Shadow Effect:
DEFENDANT – Mr. Officer, what is a shadow effect and how can it contribute to a false speed reading?
A shadow effect error occurs when the second beam used to calculate the officer’s patrol car speed - by locking on to nearby objects on the road - instead locks on to a nearby vehicle in front of the patrol car (usually a large truck).
For example, a patrol car is traveling at 50 mph. It is approaching a large truck directly in front traveling at 40 mph. The low doppler shift beam of the radar unit locks onto the back of the large moving truck and returns a strong low doppler shift back to the receiving end of the radar unit.
The radar gun will then read the closing speed of the patrol car on the truck. This will make the radar unit think that the patrol car is only traveling at 10 mph
(50 – 40 = 10).
When a vehicle approaches from the opposite direction, at let’s say 60 mph, the radar unit will actually calculate this vehicle’s speed as 100 mph. Because the radar unit has calculated the officer’s speed as 10 mph and is closing in on the approaching car at 110 mph (vehicle’s actual speed + patrol’s actual speed).
As a result, the radar unit calculates the approaching vehicle’s speed as 100 mph (110 – 10 = 100) or (closing speed – officer’s speed = vehicle’s speed). This inaccurate speed is 40 mph over the actual speed of the target vehicle!

Look Past Error:
DEFENDANT – Mr. Officer, what is a look past error and how can it contribute to a false reading?
A look past error is when the radar “overlooks” the target vehicle and instead bounces off of a different vehicle. This is especially true with moving radar since the officer doesn’t scope out an individual vehicle and the radar gun bypasses a small reflection in exchange for a larger one further down the road (as with a large truck).
Studies have shown that the readings from a radar unit can often be from a larger vehicle as far as ¾ miles down the road!
Fan Interference Error:
DEFENDANT – Mr. Officer, what is fan interference error and how can it contribute to a false reading?
A fan interference error is when a radar unit mounted inside the patrol car will have the tendency to read the pulse of the fan motor (a/c, heater, or defroster). This will override patrol car speed reflected from the roadway. When this happens the false speed reading produced from the fan will be substituted for patrol speed in the moving radar’s calculation of target speed. Since the fan speed is considerably less than the patrol’s speed, this will calculate the approaching vehicle’s speed as being higher than what it actually is.
Batching:
DEFENDANT – Mr. Officer, what is batching and how can it contribute to a false reading?
Already discussed above.
Bumping Error:
DEFENDANT – Mr. Officer, what is bumping error and how can it contribute to a false reading?
Bumping error is when the officer slows down, as when to turn around and give chase in the opposite direction. The turn around lessens the patrol car’s speed and increases or “bumps” the target vehicle’s speed.

Cosine Error:
DEFENDANT – Mr. Officer, what is cosine error and how can it contribute to a false reading?
Already discussed above.
If at any time, the officer says that he does not know a particular error, ask him when was the last time he read his radar manual. Tell him that these errors are clearly listed in his manual and that a properly trained person should at least be familiar with such errors in order to prevent them from happening. This will also be a good time to motion for a dismissal.
If at any time the officer says he is not supposed to know the technical workings of the radar unit I would ask him if these errors are listed in his handbook. If he says they are, then I would ask him when was the last time he read it and why he’s not required to know them. This is also a good time to motion for a dismissal.
Closing Argument
It is highly unlikely that you will have to give a closing argument. More than likely your case will be dismissed by then. But it is still a good idea to have one ready just in case.
It’s not possible for me to write one for you here because there are just too many factors involved and each particular case is different. However, I can give you a couple of pointers.
First, you will want to mention the fact that no judicial notice exists in your state and that the judge still allowed the case to continue without expert testimony and that the prosecutor failed to prove judicial notice does exist.
Also, remind the judge of all of the different errors you brought up during cross examination that could have occurred and that the police officer has not proven that they didn’t.
Finish off by saying that the police officer has not proven, to any legal degree of certainty, that he clocked your vehicle with a reliable method of speed enforcement and that you ask for a verdict of not guilty.
Final Remarks:
You may use this Moving Radar Defense in conjunction with the MUTCD Defense further below. Ask for a traffic survey if all else fails. You may begin

your line of defense with the MUTCD Defense or you may start with the defense you see here and if the judge still hasn’t dismissed the case you can start asking for a traffic survey for the stretch of road you were caught speeding.

WWW.TRACKDAYSTORE.COM The only online store where you earn free track time when you make a purchase
WWW.NESBA.COM
Nesba Midwest CR #803
Hix Racing #803
Brian#803 is offline  
post #26 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-07-2007, 08:21 PM
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,321
           
^ that's what was in Achap's .rar file, some interesting stuff in there I never would've thought of
Ninja 13 is offline  
post #27 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-08-2007, 10:37 PM
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,225
           
I have got a few tickets but have gotten out of all of them. Only 1 on the bike. 80 in a 45. I was accelerating hard on 59 and just happened to be a cop there that "paced" me. I proved that he saw a speed faster than I was traveling because he was trying to catch up with me. I brought in aerial maps and yada yada.

The rest were in the car driving home to Missouri.
achapman is offline  
post #28 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-10-2007, 01:58 AM
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 108
           
Any judge is gonna look at anybody who comes into court and act like an ass as prescribed above as... an ass.
svslider is offline  
post #29 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-10-2007, 10:44 AM

 
Brian#803's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pewaukee, Wi
Posts: 908
Location: Pewaukee, Wi
Sportbike: Track: 08 GSXR 1000; 08 GSXR 1000; 2005 R6 Dirt: 08 CRF 250 06 KLX 110
Years Riding: 15 years
How you found us: NESBA
           
Quote:
Originally Posted by svslider View Post
Any judge is gonna look at anybody who comes into court and act like an ass as prescribed above as... an ass.
careful...your judgement of what people will look like in a courtroom might offend a lawyer or two

But aren't judges still obligated to make a ruling according to the law and not due to personal feelings?

WWW.TRACKDAYSTORE.COM The only online store where you earn free track time when you make a purchase
WWW.NESBA.COM
Nesba Midwest CR #803
Hix Racing #803
Brian#803 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Chicagoland Sportbikes forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome