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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-03-2007, 02:10 AM Thread Starter
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Too fast for conditions???

so a buddy and i were riding westbound on touhy tonight right by touhy and crawford. we were stopped at the red light there. light turns green and we proceed, i sped up about 5mph just to get ahead of the car on my right and make a lane change and a lincolnwood cop was stopping at the stop sign on the next side street. anyway we cruise by him all normal doing about 5mph over the speed limit. i was half a bike length ahead of my buddy and the cop turns onto touhy and turns on his lights and pulls us over. comes to the bikes and says I was speeding! didn't say nothing about my buddy but he said i was! i politely ask him what did he clock me at and he says he didnt clock me but he paced me. now he came out of the side street, turned onto touhy, and pulled me over on the next block! so he paced me for a block and determined i was speeding? i told him this and he then got frustrated i can tell and said to "save my lawyer crap for the judge."

i give him my license n insurance and then he asks my buddy for his stuff too. goes back to his car, comes back 5 min later and gives my buddy his stuff back and lets him off w/ a warning and tells him to leave now before he changes his mind. so my buddy leaves and goes to cicero to wait at the shell station. cop goes back to his car, writes up a ticket and comes back and presents it to me. on the ticket he checked off "too fast for conditions" and explains the 3 options i have. i thank him for the ticket and off he went.

so my question is wtf does "too fast for conditions" mean? on the ticket he checked off light traffic, and checked off that i was driving an automobile rather than m/cycle. it was sunny, dry, and no traffic what so ever when he pulled me over. my buddy was to the left of me and got a warning but i got a ticket? obviously i understand he gave me the ticket just cuz i asked him how fast did he think i was going when i knew i wasnt speeding but its bullshit! should i contest it in court which is what i'm debating on doing? i really feel that i got punk'd and got a ticket that is bs!

p.s. sorry for the long ass story, just wanted to be detailed so u get a good idea
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-03-2007, 02:12 AM
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Should be a very easy fight in court..especially since he checked automobile.

I just got a 60 in a 35 thrown out because the cop checked automobile instead of bike in Frankfort
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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-03-2007, 02:19 AM
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The ticket is bullshit, but it's still a ticket that needs fighting. If you can't get the technicality of auto vs motorcycle, then:

Contest it and write everything down that you can. If you have forgotten the fact that you were indeed possibly going 5mph over the speed limit, well, so much the better.. Alzheimer's claims another victim

He's busting your balls probably on speeding up to get in front of a car instead of getting behind it. If he shows up, try to frame it around that singular event and tell the judge you realize in hindsight you should have probably just let the car go ahead.

It's a very very subjective ticket and framing it to a context that you can demonstrate to the judge respectfully you know the 'right thing to do' now and have done so since the incident might get you some brownie points.

This, naturally, is only my opinion given the info. I've had this ticket before and got out of one but unfort could not get out of another because it happened to be raining and the judge felt that even going under the speed limit was still 'speed too fast for conditions'.

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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-03-2007, 02:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amgmezo View Post
should i contest it in court which is what i'm debating on doing?
Just so you know, I am in law enforcement. Normally I just post on the "actual" law being broken based on the story individuals tell here. However, if the events occurred the way you described them in this post, your issuance of a citation has no legal standing. Although he may claim to have paced you, he must prove that a speed was maintained for an elapsed time with an unobstructive view or interruptions. To answer your question above.... Yes, you should plead not guilty.

Remember... most police vehicles have DVD recording systems with audio. There is a 20 to 30 second back-up on the system. Which means, from the time he turned his lights on, the video keeps 20 - 30 seconds of the prior footage. In the course of one block traveling at 25 -35mph, your entire stop should have been videotaped and can be requested as evidence at trial if you subpoena it (you must do this at the county courthouse). Here is the law if you were written under 11-601(a)...

"No vehicle may be driven upon any highway of this State at a speed which is greater than is reasonable and proper with regard to traffic conditions and the use of the highway, or endangers the safety of any person or property. The fact that the speed of a vehicle does not exceed the applicable maximum speed limit does not relieve the driver from the duty to decrease speed when approaching and crossing an intersection, approaching and going around a curve, when approaching a hill crest, when traveling upon any narrow or winding roadway, or when special hazard exists with respect to pedestrians or other traffic or by reason of weather or highway conditions. Speed must be decreased as may be necessary to avoid colliding with any person or vehicle on or entering the highway in compliance with legal requirements and the duty of all persons to use due care. "

Good Luck.

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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-03-2007, 03:00 AM
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wow, good to know.

thanks for helping out here Dean
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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-03-2007, 08:05 AM
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Excellent post, Dean. Thanks for the info.

amgmezo, usually people complain about tickets they received when they were definately breaking the law, but I must say it sounds like your ticket is total I agree with the others here and you should go to court and fight it. Hell, I'd like to go with you just to watch the officer try to defend that crap in front of a judge.

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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-03-2007, 08:31 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amgmezo View Post
so a buddy and i were riding westbound on touhy tonight right by touhy and crawford. we were stopped at the red light there. light turns green and we proceed, i sped up about 5mph just to get ahead of the car on my right and make a lane change and a lincolnwood cop was stopping at the stop sign on the next side street. anyway we cruise by him all normal doing about 5mph over the speed limit. i was half a bike length ahead of my buddy and the cop turns onto touhy and turns on his lights and pulls us over. comes to the bikes and says I was speeding! didn't say nothing about my buddy but he said i was! i politely ask him what did he clock me at and he says he didnt clock me but he paced me. now he came out of the side street, turned onto touhy, and pulled me over on the next block! so he paced me for a block and determined i was speeding? i told him this and he then got frustrated i can tell and said to "save my lawyer crap for the judge."

i give him my license n insurance and then he asks my buddy for his stuff too. goes back to his car, comes back 5 min later and gives my buddy his stuff back and lets him off w/ a warning and tells him to leave now before he changes his mind. so my buddy leaves and goes to cicero to wait at the shell station. cop goes back to his car, writes up a ticket and comes back and presents it to me. on the ticket he checked off "too fast for conditions" and explains the 3 options i have. i thank him for the ticket and off he went.

so my question is wtf does "too fast for conditions" mean? on the ticket he checked off light traffic, and checked off that i was driving an automobile rather than m/cycle. it was sunny, dry, and no traffic what so ever when he pulled me over. my buddy was to the left of me and got a warning but i got a ticket? obviously i understand he gave me the ticket just cuz i asked him how fast did he think i was going when i knew i wasnt speeding but its bullshit! should i contest it in court which is what i'm debating on doing? i really feel that i got punk'd and got a ticket that is bs!

p.s. sorry for the long ass story, just wanted to be detailed so u get a good idea
You should have politely given him a piece of your mind. I would have told him he was a jagoff.
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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-03-2007, 11:54 AM
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Sounds like you can beat that. Similar to one my buddy got a few years ago. We were southbound starting from a light, cop was northbound in opposite direction. My guy "accidently" popped his clutch bringing the wheel all of 2 inches off the ground. I'm ahead when we get pulled over. Cop issues him a speeding ticket & didn't even ask for my info even though I was in lead when pulled over. Says he knew he was speeding cause he had to go over speed limit to catch up. Well, no shit he would if he was initially going in opposite direction & had to make a u-turn on a busy street. My buddy did six months probation 'cause he didn't ask the right questions.

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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-03-2007, 12:10 PM
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Remember, do NOT say you were going 5 MPH over. You were going exactly the speed limit.

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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-03-2007, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean View Post
Just so you know, I am in law enforcement. Normally I just post on the "actual" law being broken based on the story individuals tell here. However, if the events occurred the way you described them in this post, your issuance of a citation has no legal standing. Although he may claim to have paced you, he must prove that a speed was maintained for an elapsed time with an unobstructive view or interruptions. To answer your question above.... Yes, you should plead not guilty.

Remember... most police vehicles have DVD recording systems with audio. There is a 20 to 30 second back-up on the system. Which means, from the time he turned his lights on, the video keeps 20 - 30 seconds of the prior footage. In the course of one block traveling at 25 -35mph, your entire stop should have been videotaped and can be requested as evidence at trial if you subpoena it (you must do this at the county courthouse). Here is the law if you were written under 11-601(a)...

"No vehicle may be driven upon any highway of this State at a speed which is greater than is reasonable and proper with regard to traffic conditions and the use of the highway, or endangers the safety of any person or property. The fact that the speed of a vehicle does not exceed the applicable maximum speed limit does not relieve the driver from the duty to decrease speed when approaching and crossing an intersection, approaching and going around a curve, when approaching a hill crest, when traveling upon any narrow or winding roadway, or when special hazard exists with respect to pedestrians or other traffic or by reason of weather or highway conditions. Speed must be decreased as may be necessary to avoid colliding with any person or vehicle on or entering the highway in compliance with legal requirements and the duty of all persons to use due care. "

Good Luck.
Hopefully he driving a squad with the mobile recording system.

Yes, I would go to court on it and plead not guilty. Bring your friend who was riding with you as well. If you were both riding together and maintaining speed within half a bike length of eachother, then he shoudve written you both and not one person a warning and one a traffic citation. Also, I know of some officers who have had their citations thrown out due to a error in checking autombile when they should have checked motorcycle...at least I've seen it happen in Rolling Meadows Court House.

I've only written "too fast for conditions" when it's been weather related and I'm taking an accident report.

Good Luck!
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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-03-2007, 03:55 PM
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I was in a similar situation. I pulled away from a light too fast and rode out 1st gear, well there was a state trooper way behind me. About a block down I notice a cop coming up behind me fast with lights on so I pull over. He then tells me I'm speeding going 60 in a 30. I told him there was no way I was speeding much less going 60. He told me he didn't have radar on me but had to do 60 to catch up to me. I told him if I were ahead of him doing 60 and he was doing 60 he wouldn't catch up to me.....which pissed him off. He gave me a ticket, which I went to court....the cop didn't show up.

Go to court, fight the ticket, I'm sure the cop won't show up.

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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-03-2007, 05:14 PM
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Nice post Dean!

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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-03-2007, 05:31 PM
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Do not admit to going 5 over in court if you try to fight this! Make them prove your speed.

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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-03-2007, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manuelohere View Post

Go to court, fight the ticket, I'm sure the cop won't show up.
The only way a cop doesn't show up is if he/she is ill or on vacation. Departments require that officers show up in court. It's mandatory or we get disciplinary action.

But...DO NOT admit to going 5 over. A judge will them deem that even 5 over, is over and you will lose.
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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-04-2007, 09:16 AM
 
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Please begin by reading this document I am posting. It should help you in your battle.

Also, you need to get extensions on the court date. At least 2 so it makes your chances of the cop not showing up greater. It also gives him time to forget exactly what happened. This should be easy to fight.

http://aaronlchapman.com/public/beatthetickets.rar
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post #16 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-05-2007, 09:03 PM
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Fight this in court, sounds like crap. And I don't know about the courts down there, but I've gotten tickets for going 5mph over the speed limit and the judge always seems to throw it out by saying it's a waste of my time and the citizens time for going over 5mph.

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post #17 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-05-2007, 11:21 PM Thread Starter
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thanks everyone for all your input... i'm going to contest the ticket. i sent the response in the mail today... i'll keep all the info everyone dropped, especially dean's and criminalgrrl's, in mind and hope this bs ticket gets dropped!
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post #18 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-06-2007, 02:18 AM
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you're lucky he didn't put you in a headlock
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