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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-20-2006, 12:54 PM Thread Starter
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Vasher Returns to Training

Thank God!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago Sun Times
Vasher back, still looking for raise

June 20, 2006

BY BRAD BIGGS Staff Reporter




Nathan Vasher is back to work, but that doesn't change his feelings about his contract.

The Bears' Pro Bowl cornerback returned to Halas Hall on Monday for the final week of organized team activities (OTAs), a week after leaving following a meeting with general manager Jerry Angelo in which he was told the team would not discuss a new deal.

Vasher, a fourth-round pick in 2004, is halfway through a four-year contract that will pay him $425,000 this season, and he believes the Bears should come up with a financial framework that more accurately represents his standing as a rising player.

''There is room for exceptions in everything,'' Vasher said. ''Given the facts, my situation is definitely an exception.''

But Angelo said a new deal for Vasher would go against the team's structure, pointing out that Brian Urlacher didn't get a new deal until he had played three seasons and had two years remaining on his rookie contract.

''I felt like I was treated unfairly and just wanted to voice my opinion about it,'' Vasher said. ''I've held my head up throughout the whole process, and I'm going to continue to do so.''

Vasher, who led the team with eight interceptions in 2005, is one of three players unhappy with their standing. Running back Thomas Jones and linebacker Lance Briggs remain absent from OTAs but are expected to show up in training camp. Vasher said not reporting for camp on July 26 was never an option.

''You sign a contract, and you have to definitely honor it,'' he said. ''I don't think there will be any talks about my situation and my contract and this and that. It will be all completely team.''

Vasher has been doing limited work on the field while he tries to strengthen a quadriceps to alleviate problems with a sore knee.

''With everything that has come out publicly about the whole situation, I think everyone will be understanding of my side and what's been going on,'' Vasher said. ''I haven't done anything that anybody else in the league hasn't wanted to say or do.''


NOTES: Although the Bears are not believed to be close to signing any of their four remaining draft picks, they have been in regular communication with Russell Hicks, who represents second-round pick Danieal Manning.

There also has been steady dialogue between contract negotiator Cliff Stein and Eugene Parker, the agent for the second second-round pick, Devin Hester.

*Cornerback Daven Holly and linebacker T.J. Hollowell were released. Holly's fate might have been sealed when he was arrested March 1 on the Near North Side after a shooting incident.

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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-20-2006, 01:04 PM
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an interesting concept in pro sports..honoring your contract
a prima donna in the making
what a team player
poor morals and ethics
just get your ass out there and play

youre most likely given free tuition through college, now make 425k to work 6 months out of the year and youre crying- but hes got his head up

This is yet another example why Im losing interest year after year in professional sports

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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-20-2006, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2weelpilot
an interesting concept in pro sports..honoring your contract
a prima donna in the making
what a team player
poor morals and ethics
just get your ass out there and play

youre most likely given free tuition through college, now make 425k to work 6 months out of the year and youre crying- but hes got his head up

This is yet another example why Im losing interest year after year in professional sports
well said. Curtis Enis was like that too. Pretty sure he had an attitude and was a training camp hold-out right after he was drafted. I think he's working in his dad's lumber yard in Ohio nowadays.

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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-20-2006, 01:31 PM
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I'm sure he would be getting paid more if he didn't blow it for us in the playoffs. Glad he's back in camp though.

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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-20-2006, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2weelpilot
an interesting concept in pro sports..honoring your contract
a prima donna in the making
what a team player
poor morals and ethics
just get your ass out there and play

youre most likely given free tuition through college, now make 425k to work 6 months out of the year and youre crying- but hes got his head up

This is yet another example why Im losing interest year after year in professional sports


Contracts are not guarenteed in the NFL. I have no problem with someone holding out for a raise if the team can cut them at any time. Why would someone play a year of football making $200,000 and risk getting hurt when they can not play for a year and make a couple million the next? They're just making smart financial moves. Professional sports is a business on both sides, players and owners.

As for college players, the basketball/football players bring it a ton more $$$$ than the tuition that they get for playing.

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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-20-2006, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoJo


Contracts are not guarenteed in the NFL. I have no problem with someone holding out for a raise if the team can cut them at any time. Why would someone play a year of football making $200,000 and risk getting hurt when they can not play for a year and make a couple million the next? They're just making smart financial moves. Professional sports is a business on both sides, players and owners.

As for college players, the basketball/football players bring it a ton more $$$$ than the tuition that they get for playing.
not sure I understand where youre going with this

so he shouldnt have to honor his contract that he agreed to and signed?

Then it will go both ways..the year that a QB has 22 intercept's or a RB has 18 fumbles..the team has the right to pay him a lot less the following year? If he doesnt have to honor his contract then neither do they

Is that what youre saying?

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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-20-2006, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2weelpilot
not sure I understand where youre going with this

so he shouldnt have to honor his contract that he agreed to and signed?

Then it will go both ways..the year that a QB has 22 intercept's or a RB has 18 fumbles..the team has the right to pay him a lot less the following year? If he doesnt have to honor his contract then neither do they

Is that what youre saying?
The team does have the right to pay him a lot less, they can cut him and pay him nothing!

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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-20-2006, 02:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoJo


Contracts are not guarenteed in the NFL. I have no problem with someone holding out for a raise if the team can cut them at any time. Why would someone play a year of football making $200,000 and risk getting hurt when they can not play for a year and make a couple million the next? They're just making smart financial moves. Professional sports is a business on both sides, players and owners.

As for college players, the basketball/football players bring it a ton more $$$$ than the tuition that they get for playing.
Contract is a contract. If they can hold out and want a pay raise for playing well in the middle of it, the team should be allowed to pay them less during years they are playing poorly.
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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-20-2006, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cam_neely_8
Contract is a contract. If they can hold out and want a pay raise for playing well in the middle of it, the team should be allowed to pay them less during years they are playing poorly.
see above post where I referenced the fact that they can cut the player and not pay them SQUAT!

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Originally Posted by flinchy
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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-20-2006, 03:04 PM Thread Starter
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This doesn't change my opinion about Vasher at all.....Nathan Vasher had a kick ass year, and I hope he does it again this year. He is definitely in my top 5 of fave players right now. I kinda agree with JoJo on this one.

Let's say you're hired into a company, they offer you a base salary, and one year goes by. You're at the top of the charts, doing an excellent job. Then you see someone who is doing just as well as yourself, but they are making a shit load more money. Aren't you going to ask for a raise? I know I would.

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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-20-2006, 03:11 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2weelpilot
so he shouldnt have to honor his contract that he agreed to and signed?

Then it will go both ways..the year that a QB has 22 intercept's or a RB has 18 fumbles..the team has the right to pay him a lot less the following year? If he doesnt have to honor his contract then neither do they

Is that what youre saying?
It does go both ways. Teams can cut players at any time and players can hold out at any time. Teams also constantly ask veteran players to restructure their contracts to create cap space. Usually those veterans face the choice of getting paid less or being cut.

Football contracts are hardly contracts at all in the strictest sense of the word. They are more like loose agreements between two parties. They are even negotiated a lot of times with both sides knowing full well that the contract will not honored in the last years due to salary cap issues.

Back On Topic:
IMO, Vasher has a legitimate beef but he and his agent should have handled it behind closed doors instead of in the media. It almost forces Angelo's hand now to NOT give him a new deal. If he does, it sets a terrible precedent. Vash should play out this year, do well, and he'll get his dollars before next season.
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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-20-2006, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flinchy
It does go both ways. Teams can cut players at any time and players can hold out at any time. Teams also constantly ask veteran players to restructure their contracts to create cap space. Usually those veterans face the choice of getting paid less or being cut.

Football contracts are hardly contracts at all in the strictest sense of the word. They are more like loose agreements between two parties. They are even negotiated a lot of times with both sides knowing full well that the contract will not honored in the last years due to salary cap issues.

Back On Topic:
IMO, Vasher has a legitimate beef but he and his agent should have handled it behind closed doors instead of in the media. It almost forces Angelo's hand now to NOT give him a new deal. If he does, it sets a terrible precedent. Vash should play out this year, do well, and he'll get his dollars before next season.
well put. this is now an official football thread since flinchy has responded

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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-20-2006, 03:29 PM
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I agree, Football Rules are not on the players side like Baseball. A player can have a career ending injury any day on the field and can be cut at any time. Football players statistically have shorter life spans due to the abuse their bodies endure. For every Farve there is 10 Rashaan Salaam's.... Get your money while you can cause you may be selling shoes next year.




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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-20-2006, 03:33 PM
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I understand teams need to have policies," Sullivan said. "But what kind of policy allows a backup to make 10 times more than an All-Pro starter?"

That comment is in reference to the roughly $9 million of salary and bonuses the Bears will pay free-agent signee Ricky Manning Jr., who signed an offer sheet in April to leave Carolina. Manning is working with the first defensive unit now that Vasher has left voluntary team workouts at Halas Hall.

Taken from the Trib.

I'd be pissed and asking for more money in this situation.

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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-20-2006, 03:36 PM
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However, being a jackhole and demanding more money doesn't always work. Just ask TO, he may have lost some money last year.




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post #16 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-20-2006, 03:54 PM
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so to recap:

Vasher needs the same agent as Manning cause his sucks
Contracts dont mean squat
up front money is up front money, so dont give me this * nothing is gauranteed* garbage.

Vasher will tank this year because hes focussed on his contract not on his game

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post #17 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-20-2006, 04:02 PM
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I'm on the player's side on this one. In the NFL, they treat players like cattle. As soon as you show a sign of limping, they take you in the back and shoot you . You are only good to them if you are playing well. I agree with Flinchy as well, try do do it in a tastefull manner, no need to go all TO everytime things don't go right with the money; but, since players and owners know there is no loyalty in the NFL when business is concerned, it would be foolish of a player to sit back and take scraps forever when nothing is gauranteed.

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post #18 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-20-2006, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2weelpilot
so to recap:

Vasher needs the same agent as Manning cause his sucks CORRECT
Contracts dont mean squat CORRECT
up front money is up front money, so dont give me this * nothing is gauranteed* garbage. Good point, I wonder if there was a signing bonus in Vasher's contract

Vasher will tank this year because hes focussed on his contract not on his game Probably

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post #19 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-20-2006, 04:05 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2weelpilot
so to recap:
Vasher will tank this year because hes focussed on his contract not on his game


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post #20 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-20-2006, 04:06 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flinchy
It does go both ways. Teams can cut players at any time and players can hold out at any time. Teams also constantly ask veteran players to restructure their contracts to create cap space. Usually those veterans face the choice of getting paid less or being cut.

Football contracts are hardly contracts at all in the strictest sense of the word. They are more like loose agreements between two parties. They are even negotiated a lot of times with both sides knowing full well that the contract will not honored in the last years due to salary cap issues.

Back On Topic:
IMO, Vasher has a legitimate beef but he and his agent should have handled it behind closed doors instead of in the media. It almost forces Angelo's hand now to NOT give him a new deal. If he does, it sets a terrible precedent. Vash should play out this year, do well, and he'll get his dollars before next season.
+100000


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post #21 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-20-2006, 04:23 PM
 
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Unfortunately for Vasher, he was drafted in the fourth round. Players first contracts are ALMOST always based on their draft slot. Fourth rounders do not get a lot of guaranteed money. I would be surprised if he got more than $300k in signing bonus money. It's "somewhat common" that 4th rounders don't make the team so guaranteed money is usually small for them.

The best solution to this problem is that Vasher plays out this year and does well. Angelo gives him a contract similar to other CB's of his ability and standing. I would "guess" that it would be about around 4-5 years with 5-6 mil per year average with about 6-8 mil up front.

Also, Manning's contract is very incentive laden on him becoming a starter. If he doesn't start, then his contract "de-escalates" to a contract more normal for a nickel back, around 3 mil per year. If he starts, he gets 4.2 mil per year

Oh the fun of football economics! God, I need to get a new hobby! I've actually been having arguments over how much money Daniel Manning and Devin Hester should be getting.......
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post #22 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-20-2006, 06:15 PM
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I agree that Vasher deserves more money...and he'll get it, IN THE THIRD YEAR!!...that's how the Bears do things period. I for one am happy to see owners and teams standing up against these me first prima's who EXPECT to be paid...you signed a contract, you outperformed it, keep playing well and you'll get paid...this crap is getting tiresome.

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