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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-09-2008, 04:52 PM Thread Starter
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Cubs trade for Harden

The trade was mentioned in the other thread, but what are your thoughts?

Baseball fans, Cubs trade (OF) Murton, (RHP) Gallagher, (INF) Patterson and (C) Donaldson to Oakland for (RHP) Harden and (RHP) Gaudin.

What do you think of the deal? Are you excited Hendry answered the Sabathia trade with one of his own? Is this enough to get the Cubs to the promised land? Additional thoughts?

Personally, I love the move. I knew it was a matter of time before they got him given Hendry and Beane's trade history. I wanted it to be sooner rather than later so the Cubs could get a few extra starts from Harden as opposed to making the trade after the All Star Break. Too bad Gallager had to go as that's the only player that I think is going to be on an MLB roster in a few years but you have to give someone up to get someone. And the Cubs also got Gaudin who is a former starter and could move into that spot into the future.

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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-09-2008, 09:54 PM
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Is this enough to get the Cubs to the promised land?
Dude, Moses couldn't even bring the Cubbies to the promised land...I mean, the guy wandered around the desert and HE even got there in 40 years
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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-09-2008, 10:07 PM
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Good Trade. Murton is the suck and we've done the patterson thing. Sucks to give up Gallager but it's a major upgrade. I don't know how highly Donaldson was thought of but with Soto being as good as he is there wasn't any room for him. Cubs now have four SOLID starters asuming they call all stay healthy

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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-09-2008, 11:42 PM
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lol, i go on the Cubs board quite often and it's funny b/c the "ledgejumpers" on there are hilarious.... I still remember ppl that were nay-saying the Lee for Hee Seop trade, with this one and probably for the last 3yrs it's always been "the only trade chip we have is Pie, everything else is garbage", but while Pie has shown that he'll probably never pan out it's funny that a day after the Brewers fans(didn't know they existed until 2007) infested the board there were plenty of ppl saying "oh we didn't have the chips for that trade and probably don't have the chips for Harden or Burnett" and.... viola... Cubs get Harden!!!!

as for this trade anyone who is going to see a downside in not only disposing of E-Patt(the E doesn't stand for Eric as we got to see in the field), Murton and some A-ball catcher are just plain idiots...

out of it came a #1A, #2 starter when healthy(although that's still a big risk) for a current #5 starter who might one day be a #3 in Gallagher and there should be NO complaints, especially since Gaudin looks to be a decent insurance policy that will be able to take over if Marquis falters or if Harden gets hurt, it makes Marquis and Marshall just emergency starters and not staples in the rotation...

and oh yea, I still remember all the whining from the 3 future Cy Young/HOF pitchers for Juan Pierre, lol, well I guess Mitre is having a decent yr, but Nolasco and Pinto were only good for trade chips if anything, never destined to be top-line starters for the Cubs

all I know is that today would've been a great debut for Gaudin(although Big Z shoulda just finished or had a chance to finish, but hey fresh off the DL better to save those innings for Sep/Oct), since Marmol needs to be saved and an outing like tonights is not good for the confidence he built up in StL after coming down to Earth, not to mention don't want his arm to fall off b4 the stretch run

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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-10-2008, 06:55 AM
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We'll see what he does. I'm betting on another Maddux disaster.

BTW, Why does everyone hate Murton?

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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-10-2008, 07:46 AM
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We'll see what he does. I'm betting on another Maddux disaster.

BTW, Why does everyone hate Murton?
I don't hate Murton but to play the outfield you have to do more than hit for average. He doesn't hit for much power, no speed, and plays average defense at best.

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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-10-2008, 10:50 AM Thread Starter
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Good points guys. Minor leaguers are just trade bait because nothing is guaranteed.
VR4Playa, you are right on with saying Harden is a risk but if he's on, you're getting a guy that's gonna be top of the rotation guy for some guys that don't project to be much.

They had been trying to get rid of Murton for some time because like JoJo said, he doesn't hit for power, not much speed and thus doesn't cover much ground in the outfield. Might be better off being a platoon first baseman.

I hope new ownership keeps Hendry around, because the guy has made some really good trades. The cubs have gotten some great players in trades. And I can't say that they've given up much. Dontrelle Willis might be the best player traded away by Hendry but he had a couple of good years and few below average.

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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-10-2008, 11:01 AM
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He can be really really good but I would keep an eye on his shoulder. He's losing velocity and not working deep in games for the past few starts. Looking at recent history he is due for another DL stint shortly.

If he only gets 4-6 wins I don't think it was worth giving up Gallagher and Donaldson. Both those guys will be studs. However being able to offload murton and e-pat was probably enough of a bonus for the cubs to take a sub-stellar 2nd half from him. I think he needs 8+ W's in the 2nd half, and at least 3 in the post season to have been worth it.

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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-10-2008, 11:20 AM
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I don't hate Murton but to play the outfield you have to do more than hit for average. He doesn't hit for much power, no speed, and plays average defense at best.
try below avg defense and he needs to hit atleast .310 to make up for his lack of power... pretty much he's Ryan Theriot w/o the ability to play middle infield, but atleast Theriot plays avg-above avg at time D and can steal bases...

as for Gallagher becoming the next Maddux... RFLMAO!!!! Maddux already had a Cy Young by the time he left and he was a free agent NOT traded, we can all thank Larry Himes, the same genius GM that drafted Frank Thomas, Robin Ventura and Jack McDowell on the South Side obviously had a thing against the Cubs, although he did make what seemed like the biggest bonehead trade of all time that actually ended up being the opposite in sending proven 30 HR hitter Jorge Bell to the Sox for some skinny lil' Dominican with no power(at time of trade) Sammy Sosa

saying Gallagher will be the next Maddux is like ppl who thought D-Train was the next Bob Gibson and that Nolasco, Mitre and Pinto were Three Finger Brown, Fergie Jenkins and Cy Young himself....

when will ppl realize that in ANY trade you need to give something to get something and while they say NEVER trade pitching, three of the worst trades of all time involved pitchers that were busts... Brock for Broglio, Frank Robinson for Milt Pappas, Bagwell for Larry Miller...

very rarely is there an AJ Perzynski for Francisco Liriano(one yr wonder?) and Joe Nathan(very solid closer)... where the pitchers end up being studs and the player, while still pretty decent did NOTHING for the Giants and was immediately sent off to the Sox...

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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-10-2008, 11:21 AM
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The pundants have been saying that the Cubs have a very good team but lack the pitching to go all the way.........We now have some depth in pitching that can back up the aces down the stretch. This is a much better team than last year and it's far better than 2003....better depth of talent across the board than any Cubs team I've ever seen...including '69, '84 or '89!
I hate making predictions in baseball, the sport is much too fickle to be predictable, but we have a very good team here that's capable of anything and I think we have the best chance I've ever seen. This trade only makes it better!
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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-10-2008, 11:26 AM
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If he only gets 4-6 wins I don't think it was worth giving up Gallagher and Donaldson. Both those guys will be studs. However being able to offload murton and e-pat was probably enough of a bonus for the cubs to take a sub-stellar 2nd half from him. I think he needs 8+ W's in the 2nd half, and at least 3 in the post season to have been worth it.
Wins are an over-rated stat... if you win a game 10-8 was it still a good pitching performance? What if he only gets the 4-6 wins, but all his starts are quality starts(6+ IP, 3 or less ER) and the Cubs win 90-95% of them???(but Harden gets a no-decision)

it's just like the ppl who argue that Brian Wilson should not be on the All-Star team, just b/c he leads in saves, he also has a 4+ ERA and I believe a 1.4x WHIP... both terrible for a closer, kind of like JoBo last yr, the first 40 save closer w/ a 5+ ERA...

and oh yea, I thought you were a Sox fan (atleast what I got from that roommate thread where you said you couldn't live with a Cubs fan)

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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-10-2008, 11:27 AM
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Well, I guess I upset somebody because I was "Cub bashing." That wasn't my intention, I just saw a funny opening and took it, so I apologize for adding that to the thread.

Personally, I think the trade was an awesome deal. The Cubs are doing good enough as it is, and then adding Harden to the lineup should only help guarantee their first-place status for the rest of the year. I'd like to go to a game and see him pitch, since I just saw him pitch in an A's uniform.
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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-10-2008, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by vr4playa View Post
Wins are an over-rated stat... if you win a game 10-8 was it still a good pitching performance? What if he only gets the 4-6 wins, but all his starts are quality starts(6+ IP, 3 or less ER) and the Cubs win 90-95% of them???(but Harden gets a no-decision)

it's just like the ppl who argue that Brian Wilson should not be on the All-Star team, just b/c he leads in saves, he also has a 4+ ERA and I believe a 1.4x WHIP... both terrible for a closer, kind of like JoBo last yr, the first 40 save closer w/ a 5+ ERA...

and oh yea, I thought you were a Sox fan (atleast what I got from that roommate thread where you said you couldn't live with a Cubs fan)

If by some chance he gets 0 wins and the cubs win 90% of the games he starts then.....yay and good for him. That would be so incredibly ridiculous though.


and I am a sox fan but that doesn't mean I can't read the news on ESPN and have an opinion about it too.

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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-10-2008, 11:33 AM
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Well, I guess I upset somebody because I was "Cub bashing." That wasn't my intention, I just saw a funny opening and took it, so I apologize for adding that to the thread.

Personally, I think the trade was an awesome deal. The Cubs are doing good enough as it is, and then adding Harden to the lineup should only help guarantee their first-place status for the rest of the year. I'd like to go to a game and see him pitch, since I just saw him pitch in an A's uniform.
If I were a cubs fan "guarentee" and "first place" would never enter my mind for so many reasons.

this year its the Brewers and Cardinals. If you think 1 pitcher is going to make you pull away from those guys you are fooling yourselves. The cardinals because...well....they are starting to get their pitching back (anyone see how mulder did last night?) and they have tony larusa. And the brewers because they were already gaining on you and picked up an even better pitcher than you did with NO questions about his arm or his health. He will 'W' in them 10 games this year, you can set your watch to it.

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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-10-2008, 11:36 AM
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lol, well after all the posts I see from Sox fans on the Cubs board that's the most civil response I've seen from a Sox fan

granted I could justifiably say that I was raised a "Chicago" fan b/c my mom's from the South Side and dad from North Side and went to an equal amt of Cubs/Sox games as well as both Cubs Convention/Sox Fest as a kid, but my dad has been a Cubs season ticket holder since '03 b/c he figured after the disaster of '02 it would be the easiest time to get tickets and he hasn't regretted it since

it's good to see something other than "oh you guys are gonna choke" or "remember '05?"

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post #16 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-10-2008, 11:42 AM
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lol, well after all the posts I see from Sox fans on the Cubs board that's the most civil response I've seen from a Sox fan

I'm a gamer. I played longer than most people and I know enough about the game to at least see what is going on. It doesn't matter if it's "my team" or not I can comprehend and diagnose the situation.



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it's good to see something other than "oh you guys are gonna choke" or "remember '05?"
1) you are going to choke, as history has proven

2) I don't wanna hear shit from cubs fans about me talking up a world series win only 3 years ago. If the cubs ever do win a WS you guys get 5 minutes to celebrate it before I start in on that shit to you guys. You guys would talk about that thing for 10 fucking years before it was old enough to be "old". And don't act like it's not true. You assholes would still be drunk from the celebration party 3 years later.

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post #17 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-10-2008, 11:45 AM
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Mulder was pulled after 1/3 inning so he's not the answer and Carpenter and Wainwright are still question marks...

funny since Dave Duncan has done so much in not only turning Carpenter into a Cy Young winner, making Jeff Weaver and Jeff Suppan have some value and now Kyle Lohse???? But he took the best chip ever handed to him, a member of the vaunted "Big 3" in Mulder and drove him into the ground.

as for the Brewers... doesn't help if CC wins(a game that could've easily been blown and didn't look too promising) and Sheets loses to none other than Glendon Rusch the following day

I do know being a Cubs fan that the only standings that matter are those AFTER Oct 1st, but with Soriano now getting more time to rest and come back 100% plus what we saw out of Z last night here's to hoping that this 4.5-5 game lead just balloons over the next few weeks and never pops!!!

keep in mind that the closest the Brewers/Cardinals got came after the Cubs were not only w/o Soriano, but Zambrano(and Marshall lost both starts in his place) and also it was the Cubs worst stretch of the season while the Brewers were playing their absolute best and Cards are still playing over their heads, but with that lineup even if Kyle Lohse becomes, well, Kyle Lohse, he still has a good shot at 15-20 wins.

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post #18 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-10-2008, 11:53 AM
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well, as much as it pains me to admit it, the cubs have a good team this year. ESP for being in the NL. I hope we can at least agree that the NL is the much weaker div?


I didn't hear about Mulder but thats disappointing to hear. Not just because he could have helped lift that team above the Cubs but because its a shame to see such a talent doing as poorly as he is. With all the success you have mentioned from Duncan, I'm not sure I can blame Mulder on him or if it's just his arm gave out (he did have a surgery or 2), or not rehabbing like he should have (it's so tough to actually work through) or if he just decided that he's already rich and fuck it and doesn't try any more? Either way it's too bad.

Either way I think the Brewers and Cardinals are both going to be right there giving the Cubs fits in the last 3 weeks of the season. I would be shocked off my barstool to see the Cubs run away with that division. Just as I would be shocked to see the Sox run away with it. Detroit and Minnesota are only getting stringer as the season goes on. It will be interesting to see what Kenny Williams pulls out as we head towards the trade deadline. There are some sure signs of some thing being in the works, but thats another thread all together.

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post #19 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-10-2008, 12:06 PM
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I'm a gamer. I played longer than most people and I know enough about the game to at least see what is going on. It doesn't matter if it's "my team" or not I can comprehend and diagnose the situation.





1) you are going to choke, as history has proven

2) I don't wanna hear shit from cubs fans about me talking up a world series win only 3 years ago. If the cubs ever do win a WS you guys get 5 minutes to celebrate it before I start in on that shit to you guys. You guys would talk about that thing for 10 fucking years before it was old enough to be "old". And don't act like it's not true. You assholes would still be drunk from the celebration party 3 years later.
i'd put money on it that if we were to win it all we wouldn't be in last fuggin place the following season.

btw...good trade i think harden will def help the cubs overall no matter what his W record might indicate, well as long as he stays off the DL

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post #20 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-10-2008, 12:10 PM
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i'd put money on it that if we were to win it all we wouldn't be in last fuggin place the following season.
I wouldn't.


have you seen what happens to your payroll over the next couple of years? You guys better pray to god, Allah, Tom Cruise, or whoever else that you win it this year because when they sell and dismantle that team in the next fire sale you guys will be screwed for the next 100 years.

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post #21 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-10-2008, 12:15 PM
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ehh Mulder is nowhere close to the disaster that Zito has become... not only does he not have any injuries he could blame his failures on, but he also plays in the most hitter friendly park in all of baseball where he also has like an 0-9 record w/ a 5+ ERA and oh yea, he's the 2nd highest paid pitcher(behind Santana)

but yea, be happy the Sox are in 1st and worry more about the Twins and Tigers than what's goin on at Clark and Addison, in fact the only thing I know/care about concerning the Sox is that they're in 1st and that Carlos Quentin is having one hell of a yr and if they make the playoffs I'll be happy for ya, the only teams that I care about on a daily basis and wish to do poorly are the Brewers and Cardinals...

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