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post #1 of 80 (permalink) Old 02-16-2010, 05:23 PM Thread Starter
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Frangible ammo

Was looking for a box of home defense ammo at GAT and they recommended a box of this:



I usually research stuff before I buy it but I figured what the heck, it's just a box of ammo that's slightly overpriced so if I end up getting something else later I can just send this stuff down the range.

I did a quick google search and watched a few vids on youtube all praising the total energy transfer of this ammo. There seems to be different types ranging from hollow points with tiny metal beads to compressed powder metal and some as simple as home made grooves in regular ol' ball ammo.

Legalities? Practicality? Ballistics? Please discuss.
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post #2 of 80 (permalink) Old 02-16-2010, 06:07 PM
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It's main purpose is to break up so it does not hurt the wrong person on accident, i.e.through and through gun shot strikes innocent bystander. It can be ineffective through thicker fabric and if you shot through glass or some other barrier it would do next to no damage. A better alternative is a quality hollow point.
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post #3 of 80 (permalink) Old 02-16-2010, 06:26 PM
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this is a very loaded question.

and there is 3 things i would comment on and only comment on.

here are the issues.

1. great idea so when you miss that home intruder it wont over penetrate to many walls and or maybe none?

2. the rounds might not STOP your threat by using lethal force
which now you got bigger issues in court and possibly a law suit from the "victim/perpetrator"

3. so your sitting in your criminal trial for man slaughter and your getting cross examined by the DA, and he says

Quote:
Mr. Phil chingchongchin let the jury hear once again, YOU KNEW you might have to shoot someone some day to death in your home and WHEN EVER it happened, you knew full well to load these special rounds so you would only kill Mr. tyron johnson but not your wife mesohorny or your children longhi and longlow???

Mr. Phil replies YES i did.



DA: ladys and gentlemen here once again Mr. Phil chingchonchin admits to Premeditated murder

if they jury finds your guilty your doing a hard 15-20 with some homies tapping yo ass




Last edited by Odysseys; 02-16-2010 at 06:28 PM.
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post #4 of 80 (permalink) Old 02-16-2010, 06:40 PM
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Re: Frangible ammo

Ody speaks with iron in his words. It is the same as having the laser site heat seeking infer-red shot gun. So were you looking to shoot an intruder?

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post #5 of 80 (permalink) Old 02-16-2010, 08:06 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the racist ass scenario you spic wop!

The legalities really concern me about special ammo but shooting through these thin condo walls and possibly killing/hurting my neighbors is also a huge concern. Would the kind of round I bought be considered more lethal because of total energy transfer? Or would a thick jacket take most of the energy and break the round apart?

What do you guys use for home? Regular hollow points or ball ammo?
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post #6 of 80 (permalink) Old 02-16-2010, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by suh-c View Post
Thanks for the racist ass scenario you spic wop!

The legalities really concern me about special ammo but shooting through these thin condo walls and possibly killing/hurting my neighbors is also a huge concern. Would the kind of round I bought be considered more lethal because of total energy transfer? Or would a thick jacket take most of the energy and break the round apart?

What do you guys use for home? Regular hollow points or ball ammo?
why dont ya do a search me and ponche have threads on this.

but get a shotgun with #5 shot for your use.


better yet,just go ninja



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post #7 of 80 (permalink) Old 02-16-2010, 08:38 PM Thread Starter
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Because I don't have a shotgun yet and sifting through old riff raff gets tiresome. I made this thread because I did a search and didn't find much on the subject. The thread doesn't have to be about the legal aspect only, it can be about pretty much anything regarding frangible ammo.

Would you use it, Ken? If so in what situation? Blowing watermelons to high hell? Or knocking a gangster rapper with a vest on about 12 feet back?
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post #8 of 80 (permalink) Old 02-16-2010, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Odysseys View Post
this is a very loaded question.

and there is 3 things i would comment on and only comment on.

here are the issues.

1. great idea so when you miss that home intruder it wont over penetrate to many walls and or maybe none?

2. the rounds might not STOP your threat by using lethal force
which now you got bigger issues in court and possibly a law suit from the "victim/perpetrator"

3. so your sitting in your criminal trial for man slaughter and your getting cross examined by the DA, and he says




if they jury finds your guilty your doing a hard 15-20 with some homies tapping yo ass

That's just silly.

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post #9 of 80 (permalink) Old 02-16-2010, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suh-c View Post
Because I don't have a shotgun yet and sifting through old riff raff gets tiresome. I made this thread because I did a search and didn't find much on the subject. The thread doesn't have to be about the legal aspect only, it can be about pretty much anything regarding frangible ammo.

Would you use it, Ken? If so in what situation? Blowing watermelons to high hell? Or knocking a gangster rapper with a vest on about 12 feet back?
would i use what? frangible ammo?..no.

i hit what i decide to shoot.

i alternate firearms. my 45 always stays by me.

carbine when i go to the cabin

shotgun with visiting my mom

22 when i am in the city "never know when i wanna snuff some street fuck"



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post #10 of 80 (permalink) Old 02-16-2010, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob S Preston, Esq. View Post
That's just silly.
sorry rob i know way to many people that got taken to court and charge, cops included.

did most all get off? sure...but shit tons of defense money homie.



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post #11 of 80 (permalink) Old 02-16-2010, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Odysseys View Post
sorry rob i know way to many people that got taken to court and charge, cops included.

did most all get off? sure...but shit tons of defense money homie.


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post #12 of 80 (permalink) Old 02-16-2010, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Odysseys View Post
if they jury finds your guilty your doing a hard 15-20 with some homies tapping yo ass
Rule #1) Never shoot someone in the back

Rule #2) Shoot to KILL

Rule #3) See rule #2



Dead people don't sue

Take it to the STREETS!
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post #13 of 80 (permalink) Old 02-16-2010, 08:47 PM
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thats your opinion.

i know otherwise about this kinda stuff.



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post #14 of 80 (permalink) Old 02-16-2010, 08:47 PM Thread Starter
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What say you of this type of ammo, Rob?
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post #15 of 80 (permalink) Old 02-16-2010, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
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Rule #1) Never shoot someone in the back

Rule #2) Shoot to KILL

Rule #3) See rule #2



Dead people don't sue
you got that right...so use real ammo.



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post #16 of 80 (permalink) Old 02-16-2010, 08:48 PM
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post #17 of 80 (permalink) Old 02-16-2010, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suh-c View Post
What say you of this type of ammo, Rob?
It's garbage, but not for the internet lawyer BS reasons above.
Use lightweight HPs and be aware of your background. Best thing is to make sure you hit.

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post #18 of 80 (permalink) Old 02-16-2010, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Odysseys View Post
thats your opinion.

i know otherwise about this kinda stuff.
Cite me one case where a home defender was charged with premeditated murder because of frangible ammo. Sorry, from a legal standpoint, that's f'in retarded.

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post #19 of 80 (permalink) Old 02-16-2010, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob S Preston, Esq. View Post
It's garbage, but not for the internet lawyer BS reasons above.
Use lightweight HPs and be aware of your background. Best thing is to make sure you hit.
not trying to be one, trying to avoid one

avoidance.



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post #20 of 80 (permalink) Old 02-16-2010, 08:53 PM
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not trying to be one, trying to avoid one

avoidance.
says the guy carrying a gun within Chicago city limits. You not doing yourself any favors as far as avoiding them going that route.

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post #21 of 80 (permalink) Old 02-16-2010, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob S Preston, Esq. View Post
Cite me one case where a home defender was charged with premeditated murder because of frangible ammo. Sorry, from a legal standpoint, that's f'in retarded.
i didnt refer to what i was talking about to home intruders being shot with frangible ammo. i said it was crap.

now show me how many perpetrators family's have tried to sue home owners and officers with the death of there loved one "and including ones that were not killed "the shit bag that broke into someones home and or a cop had to kill.


???...shit tons.



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post #22 of 80 (permalink) Old 02-16-2010, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
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says the guy carrying a gun within Chicago city limits. You not doing yourself any favors as far as avoiding them going that route.
i can carry,..including in the city limits.





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post #23 of 80 (permalink) Old 02-16-2010, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Odysseys View Post
this is a very loaded question.

and there is 3 things i would comment on and only comment on.

here are the issues.

1. great idea so when you miss that home intruder it wont over penetrate to many walls and or maybe none?

2. the rounds might not STOP your threat by using lethal force
which now you got bigger issues in court and possibly a law suit from the "victim/perpetrator"

3. so your sitting in your criminal trial for man slaughter and your getting cross examined by the DA, and he says




if they jury finds your guilty your doing a hard 15-20 with some homies tapping yo ass
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post #24 of 80 (permalink) Old 02-16-2010, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Odysseys View Post
i didnt refer to what i was talking about to home intruders being shot with frangible ammo. i said it was crap.

now show me how many perpetrators family's have tried to sue home owners and officers with the death of there loved one "and including ones that were not killed "the shit bag that broke into someones home and or a cop had to kill.


???...shit tons.
again. Even bass-ackwards Illinois makes that impossible against homeowners.

Quote:
(720 ILCS 5/7‑1) (from Ch. 38, par. 7‑1)
Sec. 7‑1. Use of force in defense of person.
(a) A person is justified in the use of force against another when and to the extent that he reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or another against such other's imminent use of unlawful force. However, he is justified in the use of force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm only if he reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or another, or the commission of a forcible felony.
(b) In no case shall any act involving the use of force justified under this Section give rise to any claim or liability brought by or on behalf of any person acting within the definition of "aggressor" set forth in Section 7‑4 of this Article, or the estate, spouse, or other family member of such a person, against the person or estate of the person using such justified force, unless the use of force involves willful or wanton misconduct.

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post #25 of 80 (permalink) Old 02-16-2010, 08:59 PM
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and thats why you gotta prove your case in order to get this.

anyone can take someone to court over some wrongful death crap, and then deal and pay for a defense till this is proven.

rep tape man. "avoidance"

Quote:
(720 ILCS 5/7‑1) (from Ch. 38, par. 7‑1)
Sec. 7‑1. Use of force in defense of person.
(a) A person is justified in the use of force against another when and to the extent that he reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or another against such other's imminent use of unlawful force. However, he is justified in the use of force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm only if he reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or another, or the commission of a forcible felony.
(b) In no case shall any act involving the use of force justified under this Section give rise to any claim or liability brought by or on behalf of any person acting within the definition of "aggressor" set forth in Section 7‑4 of this Article, or the estate, spouse, or other family member of such a person, against the person or estate of the person using such justified force, unless the use of force involves willful or wanton misconduct.



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post #26 of 80 (permalink) Old 02-16-2010, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Odysseys View Post
i can carry,..including in the city limits.

under what legal exemption?

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post #27 of 80 (permalink) Old 02-16-2010, 09:00 PM
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laugh all ya want, you wont find me sitting on a bench defending myself till proven innocent.



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post #28 of 80 (permalink) Old 02-16-2010, 09:00 PM
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under what legal exemption?
not gonna post it on line, ill send you a pm



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post #29 of 80 (permalink) Old 02-16-2010, 09:00 PM
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Will you guys just get together and shoot somebody and go through the process and come to an agreement already lol.

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post #30 of 80 (permalink) Old 02-16-2010, 09:01 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob S Preston, Esq. View Post
It's garbage, but not for the internet lawyer BS reasons above.
Besides the legal aspect why would you consider this ammo to be worthless? I think it's an interesting concept but even a noob like me saw immediate disadvantages such as heavy clothing getting in the way. I also read about the environmental aspect for indoor and outdoor ranges regarding lead poisoning of animals and ground water and air quality of indoor ranges. I'm just curious to see what everyone's opinion is about this ammo and was surprised to see the subject hasn't been brought up in this forum.

Quote:
Use lightweight HPs and be aware of your background. Best thing is to make sure you hit.
Thanks, I'll pick up a box tomorrow.
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