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post #1 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-14-2010, 09:15 AM Thread Starter
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Icarry event at NIU today

What: Open holster (empty holster) and container gathering to
honor victims of NIU massacre and raise awareness for the issue of
Right to Carry

When: This Wednesday!!! April 14th. Starts at noon and will
continue through the evening (8-9 PM) to allow those getting off
work to come and attend!!

Where: DeKalb, IL on the campus of Northern Illinois University -
outside the Holmes Student Center complex

We will be gathering at Northern Illinois University this
Wednesday, April 14th - all day - to honor the victims of the
tragic massacre that occurred on Valentine's day in 2008. This
Wednesday marks exactly 2 years and 2 months from the preventable
tragedy.

NIU, being in Illinois, is an area where responsible adult citizens
are prohibited from carrying pistols for their own protection. NIU
also has its own policy against having guns on campus. On the day
of the shooting, the police - that is the second responders - did a
fantastic job to be on scene and secure the area. But in just 5-6
minutes the damage was already done. The first responders - the
would-be victims - could do little more than run, trip over one
another, cower on the ground, or freeze and not react at all.

We are joined by the national organization Students for Concealed
Carry on Campus (SCCC) which promotes self-defense on college
campuses. This event follows the SCCC's annual "Empty Holster
Protest" which just occurred last week. We are continuing this
event by wearing empty/open holsters at NIU on Wednesday.


LINK

I know there are a lot of supporters here for our right to carry, thought some might be interested.

Baseballdz (5:14:48 PM): i went to take a piss at about midnight and all i hear is bed springs going nuts and teresa squeeling like a fucking pig
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post #2 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-14-2010, 09:27 AM
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post #3 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-14-2010, 09:35 AM Thread Starter
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I go to NIU so I'll probably swing through.

Baseballdz (5:14:48 PM): i went to take a piss at about midnight and all i hear is bed springs going nuts and teresa squeeling like a fucking pig
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post #4 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-20-2010, 06:43 PM
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post #5 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-20-2010, 08:07 PM
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post #6 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-20-2010, 08:31 PM
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I support right to carry, but a college campus is a terrible place for there to be guns. Everyone thinks they are an adult and know what they're doing, and none of them do. Bad bad bad idea.

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post #7 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-20-2010, 09:22 PM Thread Starter
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I support right to carry, but a college campus is a terrible place for there to be guns. Everyone thinks they are an adult and know what they're doing, and none of them do. Bad bad bad idea.
I don't have time or energy to argue right now. I understand what you are saying, but think of the recent school shootings, and how different things might have been if just one student was armed and able to take out the shooter early on. Might be a few more kids still alive.

Think about being a student and sitting in a room with only one way in and out, and imagine that door being blocked by a fucked up kid with a gun and no fear. You would probably want the opportunity to defend yourself, no?

Baseballdz (5:14:48 PM): i went to take a piss at about midnight and all i hear is bed springs going nuts and teresa squeeling like a fucking pig
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post #8 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-20-2010, 09:30 PM Thread Starter
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howd it go?
went well here's the school paper

Baseballdz (5:14:48 PM): i went to take a piss at about midnight and all i hear is bed springs going nuts and teresa squeeling like a fucking pig
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post #9 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-20-2010, 09:42 PM
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I don't have time or energy to argue right now. I understand what you are saying, but think of the recent school shootings, and how different things might have been if just one student was armed and able to take out the shooter early on. Might be a few more kids still alive.
think of how many school shootings there are compared to how many times things will go horribly horribly wrong because some drunk kid gets into an argument at a bar, or over a girl or any of the tens of thousands of things that can spark a 19 year old kid to do something rash.

Yep, school shootings are bad, but do you really want a bunch of barely legals who have not learned the restraint they need to wield the power they have blasting away on the lawns of these universities? There is a reason why basically every college and university have had gun policies in places for a long long time.

No fucking way do i want to walk around NIU, or Purdue, or any of the college campuses I have been to, drank in the bars at knowing that any of the kids....KIDS...could be packing.

bad bad terrible idea.

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Think about being a student and sitting in a room with only one way in and out, and imagine that door being blocked by a fucked up kid with a gun and no fear. You would probably want the opportunity to defend yourself, no?
how old are you?

have you been on a college campus lately? seen how immature 18 year olds are?

If you are under 25 consider these questions rhetorical. I can't imagine how immature even us mid 20-somethings look to the 30-somethings and older.

think about every 18 year old on a college campus having a gun. How bad do you want the date rape rate to get? How many times do you want to see a bar fight turn into a shootout? How many times do you want to see a frat house party turn into a shootout because some GDI came in and took home a girl that one of the guys in the house was working on?

Guns on college campuses are a bad fucking idea. We are not talking about adults here.

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post #10 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-20-2010, 10:02 PM
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If you're in college then chances are likely that you drink. And by drink I mean consume death defying amounts in ridiculous contests that push your liver to the absolute limits.

Still think that's a good combo with firearms?

I'm all for open carry or concealed carry but carrying on a college campus is a gray area. Makes for a good heated discussion.
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post #11 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-20-2010, 10:09 PM
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to go a step further there have been as many, if not more, high school shootings.

should we allow high school kids to arm themselves?

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post #12 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-20-2010, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
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to go a step further there have been as many, if not more, high school shootings.

should we allow high school kids to arm themselves?
Only in Kentucky!

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post #13 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-20-2010, 10:40 PM

 
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post #14 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-20-2010, 11:09 PM Thread Starter
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think of how many school shootings there are compared to how many times things will go horribly horribly wrong because some drunk kid gets into an argument at a bar, or over a girl or any of the tens of thousands of things that can spark a 19 year old kid to do something rash.

Yep, school shootings are bad, but do you really want a bunch of barely legals who have not learned the restraint they need to wield the power they have blasting away on the lawns of these universities? There is a reason why basically every college and university have had gun policies in places for a long long time.

No fucking way do i want to walk around NIU, or Purdue, or any of the college campuses I have been to, drank in the bars at knowing that any of the kids....KIDS...could be packing.

bad bad terrible idea.



how old are you?

have you been on a college campus lately? seen how immature 18 year olds are?

If you are under 25 consider these questions rhetorical. I can't imagine how immature even us mid 20-somethings look to the 30-somethings and older.

think about every 18 year old on a college campus having a gun. How bad do you want the date rape rate to get? How many times do you want to see a bar fight turn into a shootout? How many times do you want to see a frat house party turn into a shootout because some GDI came in and took home a girl that one of the guys in the house was working on?

Guns on college campuses are a bad fucking idea. We are not talking about adults here.
I am 24, but married and long past my "partying crazy" college days. I am finishing my degree as we speak and yes I have seen how immature the 18 or so year olds are. I don't know that I would want to be in class knowing that some of these kids may have a gun on them.

We have no right to carry in IL, and guns are a big no no on campus. Why then just a few months ago was a kid shot because he confronted a guy trying to force his way into the dorms. The guy had a gun on him, concealed and on campus, and tried to shoot the kid in the face. The victim deflected the shooters arm down and lived. I thought all that was illegal????

I guess my point is the same old argument, the laws hurt good people more than bad.

If some drunk fuck shoots a kid over a girl who's to say he wouldn't have grabbed a knife from the kitchen and stabbed him or some other stupid shit?

If you are for right to carry like you said earlier you should realize that most "parties" are not on campus. So if IL allowed responsible citizens to carry, and NIU still banned anything on campus there would still be guns at parties with drunk people.

I'm rambling and tired and don't want to make too large of an ass of myself so I'll stop for now, just wanted to say a few things.

Baseballdz (5:14:48 PM): i went to take a piss at about midnight and all i hear is bed springs going nuts and teresa squeeling like a fucking pig
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post #15 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-21-2010, 10:15 AM
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I am 24, but married and long past my "partying crazy" college days. I am finishing my degree as we speak and yes I have seen how immature the 18 or so year olds are. I don't know that I would want to be in class knowing that some of these kids may have a gun on them.

We have no right to carry in IL, and guns are a big no no on campus. Why then just a few months ago was a kid shot because he confronted a guy trying to force his way into the dorms. The guy had a gun on him, concealed and on campus, and tried to shoot the kid in the face. The victim deflected the shooters arm down and lived. I thought all that was illegal????

I guess my point is the same old argument, the laws hurt good people more than bad.

If some drunk fuck shoots a kid over a girl who's to say he wouldn't have grabbed a knife from the kitchen and stabbed him or some other stupid shit?

If you are for right to carry like you said earlier you should realize that most "parties" are not on campus. So if IL allowed responsible citizens to carry, and NIU still banned anything on campus there would still be guns at parties with drunk people.

I'm rambling and tired and don't want to make too large of an ass of myself so I'll stop for now, just wanted to say a few things.
I don't know the exact layout of the NIU campus, didn't go there. Where I went to school it's different. All the frats are more or less on campus. The bars are considered on campus etc.

either way it would keep those living on campus from having firearms.

I just don't believe that 1 case here and 1 case there of gun violence on campus justifies letting any college age kid have a gun on campus. If they move off campus, well, you can't police that. That would be up to the landlord wherever they move. But you can still prohibit them from bringing them to campus or school sponsored activities.

Whats to stop a guy from going and getting a knief? Nothing. Whats to stop him from calling all his friends to beat that one guys ass gang-rape style? Nothing. And the shit happens all the time. Gun accessibility will just make it that much easier to inflict devastating harm to someone. Instead of just throwing the guy a beating now they can shoot him? That's a terrible idea.

I had my ass beat by like 40 guys in a frat house. Twice. Did I deserve it? Maybe according to them. The second time was just because they recognized me. Do I think any of them would have hesitated if they had a gun? not a chance.

Lets take the guy forcing his way into the dorms example. Are you saying that if the unarmed college student HAD a weapon he would have had a chance, in the struggle, to grab it, cock it, and use it properly to defend himself? all while fighting off the other guy? If so you're crazy. What's more likely is either he is messing around trying to pull it out and doesn't defend himself from the attack and gets shot or drops it and now the guy has 2 guns AND is in the building AND has killed a guy.

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post #16 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-21-2010, 10:16 AM
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If you are for right to carry like you said earlier you should realize that most "parties" are not on campus. So if IL allowed responsible citizens to carry, and NIU still banned anything on campus there would still be guns at parties with drunk people.
now you're mistaking drunk college kids for responsible.


Look, you can't prevent everything. There are going to be cases of violence, rape, etc etc on college campuses whatever the rules are. I realized the rationale is that an armed population will be a deterrent to a lot of these things, but they won't. The acts you are talking about are not committed by people sitting down rationalizing their actions. Not in a way that matters anyway. If they were, they wouldn't be doing what they were doing in the first place. I think that opening up carry permit to college age kids living on campus, partying/drinking/acting the way college age kids do is an invitation for all these things to go UP.

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post #17 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-21-2010, 10:25 AM
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now you're mistaking drunk college kids for responsible.


Look, you can't prevent everything. There are going to be cases of violence, rape, etc etc on college campuses whatever the rules are. I realized the rationale is that an armed population will be a deterrent to a lot of these things, but they won't. The acts you are talking about are not committed by people sitting down rationalizing their actions. Not in a way that matters anyway. If they were, they wouldn't be doing what they were doing in the first place. I think that opening up carry permit to college age kids living on campus, partying/drinking/acting the way college age kids do is an invitation for all these things to go UP.


Isnt this the same debate against CCW in general? just remove the words "college kids" and its the same broken record.
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post #18 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-21-2010, 10:28 AM
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Isnt this the same debate against CCW in general? just remove the words "college kids" and its the same broken record.
maybe so but i feel its a different issue when you are talking about the general public and I am on the other side of the fence on that one.

I don't think a college campus is the place for guns. College kids are not a suitable audience to be considered responsible enough for that kind of power.

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post #19 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-21-2010, 10:32 AM
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Just to add to the mix. Who cares if it's a college campus? Law states that you must be 21 or older to have a handgun. Just like you must be 21 or older to drink... oh wait a minute, under age kids do that already at college which makes me wonder... are any already packing heat illegaly???

My point is there are many things certain peopel do that they shouldnt but are legaly allowed to. right or wrong isnt my point, my point is what Legal and Fair.

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post #20 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-21-2010, 10:34 AM
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College kids are not a suitable audience to be considered responsible enough for that kind of power.
Who is then? A 21 year old high school drop out with a wife and two kids?
A 45 year old who just lost his job, who's wife is cheating on him and is clinicaly depressed and doesnt know it?

Where do we draw the lines?

i knwo... we just disarm everyone!

There is no Eutopia in this debate

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post #21 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-21-2010, 10:37 AM
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I think if there were more people with guns when that shooting took place it would have been a worse bloodbath than it was already.

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post #22 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-21-2010, 10:38 AM
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Who is then? A 21 year old high school drop out with a wife and two kids?
A 45 year old who just lost his job, who's wife is cheating on him and is clinicaly depressed and doesnt know it?

Where do we draw the lines?

i knwo... we just disarm everyone!

There is no Eutopia in this debate
Tough call on that one. but I'm not advocating disarming everyone. I see a lot of mob mentality on college campus' when alcohol is involved. Everyone else is being a drunk idiot so i can too.

It's decisively different at parties with my friends who graduated even just this last year.


P.S. you do make a good argument for disarming most of america and putting into place very strict regulations and testing for owning/operating a weapon.

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post #23 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-21-2010, 10:41 AM
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I hear everyone on this, and I don't pick sides. I preach responsability and knowledge.

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post #24 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-21-2010, 10:44 AM
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I think if there were more people with guns when that shooting took place it would have been a worse bloodbath than it was already.
yep.. you would have ended up with an uncoordinated fire fight. lots of innocent bystanders getting caught.

Then when the cops show up, an an admittedly good response time, they don't know who to go after.

Then they get sued when one of the innocent who was just trying to help gets shot because he is firing off rounds.

Lose-Lose

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post #25 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-21-2010, 10:46 AM
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I hate to break it to you guys, but all fire fights are coordinated.... till the 1st shot is fired!

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post #26 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-21-2010, 10:49 AM
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I hate to break it to you guys, but all fire fights are coordinated.... till the 1st shot is fired!
understood.


but there is some forethought to the process. it's not just blind reaction and afterwards realizing what (or who) was behind the guy you were blasting away at.

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Oh he can drive. He can drive beyond the limits of the tires, the engine, the car or anything else.
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post #27 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-21-2010, 12:22 PM Thread Starter
cornfields are boring
 
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Well I guess we have to get the state to allow us to carry firearms first. Until then none of this really matters.

Just seems most of the arguments against not allowing "college" kids to carry weapons could be applied to society in general. However most are saying they support the right to carry. So then you are pretty much discriminating against college kids, and saying it's cool for you to go work or shopping or whatever with your weapon. But if I wanted to walk to some food joint on campus, or go to the computer lab in school I shouldn't be able to take my gun with? Doesn't really seem logical to me.

Baseballdz (5:14:48 PM): i went to take a piss at about midnight and all i hear is bed springs going nuts and teresa squeeling like a fucking pig
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post #28 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-21-2010, 02:01 PM
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I'm just against loads of people in the general population carrying guns; legal or otherwise. There are just too many stupid ass people with something to prove and it's easy to pull a trigger.

<--------Sticky Nicky
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post #29 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-21-2010, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Sticky View Post
There are just too many stupid ass people with something to prove and it's easy to pull a trigger.
Or crack the throttle, or get behind teh wheel, or drink alchohol, or have babies....... where do you wanna draw the line??

Arrogance has to be earned.
Serve, Protect and Break a ......
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post #30 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-21-2010, 02:56 PM Thread Starter
cornfields are boring
 
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Originally Posted by Ofc. Ponch View Post
Or crack the throttle, or get behind teh wheel, or drink alchohol, or have babies....... where do you wanna draw the line??
Exactly, and if you break those laws, at least traffic laws, you get your rights taken away.

Ofc. Ponch nailed it, we do things everyday that are potentially dangerous, and if you are careless or irresponsible you could easily kill or hurt yourself or others, whether it is with a vehicle, a weapon, whatever.

Baseballdz (5:14:48 PM): i went to take a piss at about midnight and all i hear is bed springs going nuts and teresa squeeling like a fucking pig
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