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post #1 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-16-2010, 11:00 AM Thread Starter
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Wtb ar-10t

Looking for one, preferably new, if anyone sees any good deals or knows anyone selling one please let me know. :P
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post #2 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-16-2010, 11:15 AM
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post #3 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-16-2010, 12:49 PM
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Had ads for mine last year I think for less than $2K NIB with a lothar walther barrel. Why are you going gas gun on teh .308?

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post #4 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-16-2010, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ofc. Ponch View Post
...lothar...
of the hill people?


Chris
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post #5 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-18-2010, 11:55 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ofc. Ponch View Post
Why are you going gas gun on teh .308?
Want semi auto over bolt action is all... care to educate? :P
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post #6 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-19-2010, 12:40 AM
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Want semi auto over bolt action is all... care to educate? :P
Two of the advantages of a bolt action are range and accuracy, but reliability is also a factor.
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post #7 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-20-2010, 04:59 PM Thread Starter
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Is the increased range and accuracy due to the gas in a bolt system isn't being used to cycle the weapon?
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post #8 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-20-2010, 05:01 PM Thread Starter
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I like the Semi because putting more rounds down range in a shorter amount of time without breaking my sight picture, albeit maybe less accurate, is more important to me. Didn't know the range would be affected though.
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post #9 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-20-2010, 09:35 PM
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Sorry for teh late response. 1st I'll comment on the comments below then post my thoughts on the matter.







Quote:
Originally Posted by Inu View Post
Want semi auto over bolt action is all... care to educate? :P
Pros and cons to both in addition to huge money diffrence. I'll eleaborate in a few

Quote:
Originally Posted by spetsnaz56 View Post
Two of the advantages of a bolt action are range and accuracy, but reliability is also a factor.
I agree reliabilty is a factory but have to change some of your words around on teh other comment to agree. A bolt action will have a greater degree of accuracy at further ranges than a semi auto but both will have the same range as long as the ammunition has the same bullet weight and generates equal muzzle velocity.

That being said, 2 guns, 1 semi 1 bolt with 20" barrels firing 175gr FGGM ammunition will have equal effective ranges yet the bolt gun will generaly be more accurate at that maximum range

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inu View Post
Is the increased range and accuracy due to the gas in a bolt system isn't being used to cycle the weapon?
the decrease in accuracy is due to the mechancs of teh semi auto. as stated above, the range would be equal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inu View Post
I like the Semi because putting more rounds down range in a shorter amount of time without breaking my sight picture, albeit maybe less accurate, is more important to me. Didn't know the range would be affected though.
Again, range isnt an issue and your reasoning behind a semi is a solid one

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post #10 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-20-2010, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inu View Post
Want semi auto over bolt action is all... care to educate? :P
Because you specificaly cited the "T" model AR10 it is obvious that you are looking for accuracy as a primary function with all other matters secondary. Had volume and speed of fire been goal #1 you would have said AR10, not "T".
With taht said those 2 things, volume and speed, are still a value to you as well since you cited a semi auto platform and not a bolt action.
Simply put, you want the best of both worlds.... and as we all know you cant have your cake and eat it too! That doesnt mean that there isnt a place for the AR10T in combat.

The AR10T has all of the same parts of a standard AR10 ith the exception of the following:
1) Match trigger
2) Free Floating Barrel
3) 24 or 20" match barrel
4) Larger price tag

While a "T" model sports these things it doesnt mean they are worth teh $$. A standard trigger in teh right hands can be tuned enough to be on par with a single or dual stage match trigger. In fact there have been instances where match grade triggers have FAILED in combat due to lack of mainatnce.

Barrel length will determine velocity and THIS will determine range. The longer barrels will allow powder burn for a fraction of a second longer increasing MV thus increasing distance. While this diffrence is marginal at best it is measuarable and thus must be noted. Twist rate in barrels simple allows the stabalization of specific bullet weights in that barrel for optimum reults. In .308 1:10 - 1:12 is used to stabalize from 155gr bullets all teh way up to 200gr bullets with 1:12 used for the proven 168/175 gr bullets.
Barrel quality plays into accuracy as chambers are cut tighter and sometimes longer in order to promote consistant repitition in chambering of rounds.

Because of this ( tighter tolerances) reliability of the AR platform decreases. As i described in my post about handguns and accuracy, when tolerances get tighter reliabilty gets worse.

The FF tube, the one thing on the 'T" model that in my opinion gives the greatest results. The FF tube allows the barrel to have no opposing forces act upon it. Meaning that even though your hand may be wrapped around the tube, the pressure you exert on it is not passed onto the barrel and does not distort harmonics.

Price tag, at $2K+ thats a lot of money for something that may still need tweeking out of the box and it does NOT include any optics or acc!

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post #11 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-20-2010, 10:09 PM
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All rifles at this level must be treated as a complete system with equal importance going into:

++ Optics
++ Mounts
++Ammunition
++ Magazines

Not one of these is more important that the other as they ALL have to work in a colaboartion to get optimum performance out of the system.

Simply put, you don't put 87 octane, on $50 tires with loose lug nuts on a Lambo.


In comes the bolt action..........

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post #12 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-20-2010, 10:21 PM
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Bolt guns by design are built with tighter tolerances than AR's. Because the bolt action uses bolt manipulation by human force it can be tighter by design since the actual cartridge being fired doesnt generate the forces required to operate the action. All other factors apply as well, and again.. bolt guns generaly come out of the factor free floated, with tunable triggers and tighter barrels in lengths from 18" - 26". AND you can add detachable mag systems with capacities of 5 or 10 rounds. Price is almost always cheaper as well. About the only CON is speed.

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post #13 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-20-2010, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inu View Post
without breaking my sight picture
I am a left handed shooter and all my bolt guns are right handed... WHY??

Because in the prone position or rested, where a true sniper rifle wil be used, my right hand still has access to manipulate the bolt without my cheek ever coming off the stock. hows that for not breaking my sight picture!

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post #14 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-20-2010, 10:33 PM
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In conclusion, you spend a lot of $ getting a compromise of speed and accuracy in a semi auto rifle. Wether it's an Armalie "T" model, Springfield Armory Super Match, H&K PSG-1 whatever....
9/10 a Bolt gun of Similar quality will out shoot its semi auto counter part and do it at a substantial price diffrence. with teh main diffrence of the two being speed.

Do an online price check on this and I bet teh TOTAL amount is less that an AR10T with nothing!

Remington 700P
Badger ordance 20MOA base
Badger Ordance 30mm rings
Badger ordance detachable mag system
Super Sniper Scope
Add $150 for some tweaking
And I bet your under if not right at $2K and you'll be on par with an AR10T

Do the math on an AR10T
Badger rings and the same Super Sniper. What's your $$

And teh super sniper is teh least expensive scope that I've ever seen or usd that actualy works!




I'm done, now give me rep bitches!

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post #15 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-05-2010, 11:19 AM Thread Starter
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Aight Ponch, you convinced me to get a bolt action rifle, but Imma still look for a good deal on an AR-10T.

So what's a good price for a Remington 700P in .308 and .338 Lapua?

Was just looking at these online while at work, what do you think?

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=167156112

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=167495160

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=167635619
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post #16 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-06-2010, 08:37 AM
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Stay away from the .338. The auction for $1200 is a good price but at almost $5 a round it will break your bank. The 700P is a GREAT rifle and should sell for just under $900 to your door

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post #17 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-06-2010, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
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Stay away from the .338. The auction for $1200 is a good price but at almost $5 a round it will break your bank. The 700P is a GREAT rifle and should sell for just under $900 to your door
So .308 then?

I keep seeing the Rem 700 in .223 everywhere. I don't want a friggen .223 bolt action!

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post #18 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-06-2010, 09:54 AM
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10-4.

700P in .308

I keep forgettingthe .338 is a 700P as well, that model has been out only a year.

Remington makes 4 models in the P family 223, 308, 300WM and .338.

These also make an LTR ( Light Tactical Rifle) that has 20" barrels and smaller stocks. the recievers are the same. Those can be had in .223 and .308

And FYI The P stands for Police. The name of these rifles used to be PSS for Police Sniper System but they felt it wasnt PC and dropped the SS.

The only other crazy sniper rifle remingtonn makes is the full blown M24. But bring $5K for a real kit

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post #19 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-06-2010, 10:15 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ofc. Ponch View Post
Price tag, at $2K+ thats a lot of money for something that may still need tweeking out of the box and it does NOT include any optics or acc!
Saw this on GunBroker.com. It's got a lot of time left before the auction end. What's a decent ballpark price I should be looking for?

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=167990015

Thanks again!
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post #20 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-07-2010, 05:15 AM
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Quote:
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10-4.

700P in .308

I keep forgettingthe .338 is a 700P as well, that model has been out only a year.

Remington makes 4 models in the P family 223, 308, 300WM and .338.

These also make an LTR ( Light Tactical Rifle) that has 20" barrels and smaller stocks. the recievers are the same. Those can be had in .223 and .308

And FYI The P stands for Police. The name of these rifles used to be PSS for Police Sniper System but they felt it wasnt PC and dropped the SS.

The only other crazy sniper rifle remingtonn makes is the full blown M24. But bring $5K for a real kit
What is the difference between the M24 and the 700P to have such a price gap?
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post #21 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-07-2010, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inu View Post
Saw this on GunBroker.com. It's got a lot of time left before the auction end. What's a decent ballpark price I should be looking for?

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=167990015

Thanks again!
Ifyou can get that gun for $1800 or less delivered to your FFL then it's a good buy



Quote:
Originally Posted by spetsnaz56 View Post
What is the difference between the M24 and the 700P to have such a price gap?
The $5K that I mentioned was for the kit, so you get everything... Scope,rings case gun, iron sights... etc.

Last time I saw a M24 rifle only sell it was for close to $3K

What does $3K get you....

A long action reciever ( the .308 is a short action round)
A 5R barrel ( which can be found on the limited run 700 5R model @$1100)
Provision on teh barrel for iron sights
Adjustable stock
Rem Tough coating
I believe these are also hand fitted in teh custom shop and have gaurentee of .75 MOA from the factory

The only other rifle like this that will briing more money is a TRUE M40A5 which will bring close to $9K with optics

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post #22 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-07-2010, 09:39 AM
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cool thread, lots of cool learning points, thank you guys.
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post #23 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-07-2010, 10:54 AM
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Spelling it like this TEH is Gangsta... Like popping yo glock side ways Nigga!!!!!!

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post #24 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-12-2010, 02:52 PM Thread Starter
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I'm a sucker for a good presentation. Check it out tell me what you guys think:

http://www.savagearms.com/accuracy/
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post #25 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-12-2010, 04:12 PM
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I fell asleep 46 sec into it. None of the features they have are new, just recycled and not improved on. Watch these videos in order then save your pennied.This is why I suck AI balls 24/7

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKrLnxRxNAI

http://www.youtube.com/user/hetkpube...11/yByVGTPZvoE

http://www.youtube.com/user/hetkpube...12/decFcYCTH28

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post #26 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-12-2010, 04:35 PM
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Inu, I found your rifle!!

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post #27 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-12-2010, 04:36 PM Thread Starter
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LOL that's the only AI rifle I can afford.
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