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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-08-2010, 12:13 AM Thread Starter
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WT -EDITORIAL: Guns needed to stop Chicago murders

EDITORIAL: Guns needed to stop Chicago murders
Homicide soars in nation's new gun-control capital


By THE WASHINGTON TIMES

If Chicago were serious about bringing its violent crime problem under control, it would recognize the constitutional right of residents to use firearms to protect themselves.

The city's troubles are so extreme that a pair of state lawmakers are calling on a fellow Democrat, Gov. Pat Quinn, to deploy the National Guard to help restore calm. The latest figures show that Chicago had racked up 122 homicides for the year, exceeding the 116 killings over the comparable period in 2009, a very bad year. Among the top 10 U.S. cities, Chicago is within shooting distance of advancing from second place to win the dubious distinction of being the U.S. murder capital. It's no coincidence that the Windy City is already the U.S. gun-control capital.

Since 1982, Chicago has banned the private ownership of handguns and rifles by requiring a convoluted registration process designed to be impossible to complete. Exceptions to the rules enable politicians and their personal friends to own and even carry handguns - but nobody else. This unconstitutional scheme has been a colossal failure. Before the ban took effect, Chicago's murder rate had been falling relative to the nine other largest cities, the 50 largest cities, the five counties that border Cook County, and the United States as a whole. After the ban, Chicago's murder rate rose relative to all these locations. During the first 19 years of the ban, there were just three years when the murder rate was as low as when the ban started.

Such facts are not important to Chicago Mayor Richard M. Daley, who continues to insist that more gun-control laws are the "solution" to his crime problem - as if hardened thugs carefully consulted the book of municipal ordinances before embarking on a crime spree. A more rational analysis would conclude that the restrictions apply only to good, law-abiding people looking for a way to defend themselves and their families. When the thugs know victims are defenseless, they pounce.

That means it is up to the Supreme Court to restore to Chicagoans their fundamental right to self-defense. In the pending case of McDonald v. Chicago, a number of residents are asking the high court to apply the reasoning it used to strike down Washington's gun ban. It is worth noting that a year after the landmark District of Columbia v. Heller ruling, Washington's murder rate dropped 25 percent - without resorting to using the National Guard.

Encouraging personal ownership of guns is the only proven solution to Chicago's crime problem.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...icago-murders/

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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-08-2010, 02:39 AM
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Washington's murder rate dropped 25 percent - without resorting to using the National Guard.

If this happens in Chicago, it would be worth it. But will criminals really think twice before they commit a crime because they are afraid of a possibly armed citizen?

I could see home invasion possibly going down, but the murder rate going up (more guns = more killing). This is pure speculation btw. :P
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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-08-2010, 10:43 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Inu View Post
Washington's murder rate dropped 25 percent - without resorting to using the National Guard.

If this happens in Chicago, it would be worth it. But will criminals really think twice before they commit a crime because they are afraid of a possibly armed citizen?

I could see home invasion possibly going down, but the murder rate going up (more guns = more killing). This is pure speculation btw. :P
Please cite an area anywhere in the US that had murder rate go up with the removal of restrictive gun ownership and carry laws.

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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-08-2010, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Cammer View Post
Please cite an area anywhere in the US that had murder rate go up with the removal of restrictive gun ownership and carry laws.
lol I said it was speculative. But, more guns on the street = a possibly higher percentage of more gun deaths, right?

if there were 0 guns in the world, you would have a 0% chance from dying from a gun. If everyone in the world had a gun your percentage of dying from a gun would raise considerably.

Since we can't stop people from killing each other or carrying guns illegally, I would feel a LOT safer if I was legally able to be armed(in Chicago/IL).
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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-08-2010, 12:56 PM
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lets take away sticks too, that way 0% stick death too.


hehehe i love when they use reasonings like that.


dog, check out MI implementation of CCW a couple of years ago. Shows some Excellent factual numbers, its a good read if you get bored and want to see what trends follow after citizen empowerment to protect themselves.
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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-08-2010, 01:36 PM
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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-08-2010, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Cammer View Post
Please cite an area anywhere in the US that had murder rate go up with the removal of restrictive gun ownership and carry laws.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FiReBReTHa View Post
lets take away sticks too, that way 0% stick death too.


hehehe i love when they use reasonings like that.


dog, check out MI implementation of CCW a couple of years ago. Shows some Excellent factual numbers, its a good read if you get bored and want to see what trends follow after citizen empowerment to protect themselves.
The problem with this is, that both sides are doing their best to bias the numbers in their favor, that it's really difficult to tell what the facts are. For every report I find that shows positives to less restriction, I find two that show equal negatives.

Remember about two years ago I was asking where I can find data to backup one side or another, and there really wasn't any centralized database proving one way or another...this of course is due to the politics of it. One central, factual database proving one way or the other, would devastate a campaign point.

The data is out there, but the government isn't too eager to collect and fact check it.

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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-08-2010, 05:28 PM

 
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Originally Posted by Inu View Post
lol I said it was speculative. But, more guns on the street = a possibly higher percentage of more gun deaths, right?

if there were 0 guns in the world, you would have a 0% chance from dying from a gun. If everyone in the world had a gun your percentage of dying from a gun would raise considerably.
You are absolutely 100%...WRONG.

Those states with cc laws have less crime to person and to home (invasions/burglaries) per person than those states without the right to carry. It has been proven year after year. EVERY person should own a gun...period. The second amendment KEEPS YOU FREE FROM OPPRESSION FROM THE GOVERNMENT...But hey, Im just a CSI cop what would I know about the government and freedoms

May I also add the following quote "I fear that behind every blade of grass will be an armed american"---That's why we weren't invaded in WW2 by Japan

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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-08-2010, 08:17 PM
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"Japan would never invade the United States. We would find a rifle behind every blade of grass." Isoroku Yamamoto

http://factcheck.org/2009/05/misquoting-yamamoto/

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Last edited by Lonely Raven; 05-08-2010 at 08:22 PM.
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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-08-2010, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonely Raven View Post
"Japan would never invade the United States. We would find a rifle behind every blade of grass." Isoroku Yamamoto
I believe he was talking about my house.




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post #11 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-08-2010, 08:32 PM

 
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Originally Posted by Lonely Raven View Post
"Japan would never invade the United States. We would find a rifle behind every blade of grass." Isoroku Yamamoto

http://factcheck.org/2009/05/misquoting-yamamoto/

Very good sir...the quote has had some variations, but the point remains the same. Armed people are FREE people. Most people don't know that less than 1% of all persons with a CC permit commit crime and something like 78% (i may be off a couple %-going by memory) of all weapons used in crime were obtained in a felonious manner to begin with. That means MR Shi%bag breaks into your home and steals the gun and then sells it or uses it in crime. Personally I think all gun owners should be required to own a safe and weapons are to be locked up when not present.

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post #12 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-08-2010, 09:07 PM
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Re: WT -EDITORIAL: Guns needed to stop Chicago murders

Quote:
Originally Posted by GunshowNick


Very good sir...the quote has had some variations, but the point remains the same. Armed people are FREE people. Most people don't know that less than 1% of all persons with a CC permit commit crime and something like 78% (i may be off a couple %-going by memory) of all weapons used in crime were obtained in a felonious manner to begin with. That means MR Shi%bag breaks into your home and steals the gun and then sells it or uses it in crime. Personally I think all gun owners should be required to own a safe and weapons are to be locked up when not present.
Hence why I said in a previous thread, I'd like to see tax breaks for safe's to encourage thier purchase.




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post #13 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-08-2010, 10:22 PM Thread Starter
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Hence why I said in a previous thread, I'd like to see tax breaks for safe's to encourage thier purchase.
Maybe we can get the government to subsidize us for one of these?

http://www.gunblast.com/Pendleton.htm

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post #14 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-08-2010, 11:02 PM
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post #15 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-09-2010, 02:41 AM
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I believe he was talking about my house.
So you keep your guns with your grass then?
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post #16 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-09-2010, 08:47 AM
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So you keep your guns with your grass then?
Mebby he just needs to mow his lawn?

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post #17 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-09-2010, 09:14 AM
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You are absolutely 100%...WRONG.

Those states with cc laws have less crime to person and to home (invasions/burglaries) per person than those states without the right to carry. It has been proven year after year. EVERY person should own a gun...period. The second amendment KEEPS YOU FREE FROM OPPRESSION FROM THE GOVERNMENT...But hey, Im just a CSI cop what would I know about the government and freedoms
I'll start off with this: I do believe the Chicago Handgun ban should be lifted and is pretty stupid. But....

It is NOT illegal to own a gun for home defence in Chicago. Handguns are banned... so is there something wrong with a shotgun? Secondly, I know many people who own handguns in Chicago, is there something stopping you or anyone else? Do you actually think if a handgun was used to protect your home/business in Chicago you would be in trouble? I don't think so. I have a friend who owns a business in Chicago and he always has a handgun with him in the shop.

As I stated in my last post in another thread, which had a violent crime map of the city, where these killings are happening... I have a question for you all. Do you guys actually think that in those "red" areas where that stuff is going down people are not armed? I call bullshit. They are armed.

I have a few city cop friends that work in some bad areas.... what they tell me is there is a shooting every single day. It's not home invasions or someone getting robbed on the street. It's the gangbangers shooting themselves up. How would arming everyone change this? The people who live in those areas ARE armed already.

I also don't believe INU is 100% wrong with his math. Adding a number of weapons increases chance of injury or death. Yeah, crime rate may decrease a little in certain areas but that doesn't mean more injury or deaths cannot occur.

Here are some facts to back up that claim:
Using 2006 statistics again(since I'm too laze to look up for more current) 2006, there were 30,896 deaths from firearms - Suicide 16,883; Homicide 12,791; Accident 642; Legal Intervention 360

The number of non-fatal injuries is considerable--over 200,000 per year in the U.S. Many of these injuries require hospitalization and trauma care.

Just think about cost per injury requiring admission to a trauma center is in 2010.

Looks like simple math wins again.

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post #18 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-09-2010, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inu View Post
lol I said it was speculative. But, more guns on the street = a possibly higher percentage of more gun deaths, right?

if there were 0 guns in the world, you would have a 0% chance from dying from a gun. If everyone in the world had a gun your percentage of dying from a gun would raise considerably.

Since we can't stop people from killing each other or carrying guns illegally, I would feel a LOT safer if I was legally able to be armed(in Chicago/IL).
The assumed rise in shootings is what has the Mayor's undies in a bunch.

And yes, in a firearm free world, no one would be shot/killed by one. They would use stones, hands, knives, spears, arrows, and all the other implements of attack/death that guns made obsolete or at least less desirable.

But this is reality. We can't get rid of firearms, so we must learn to cope with their presence. As I've posted before , the current ban is a big FAIL.
I posted my suggestions for a new approach a week or two ago.

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post #19 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-09-2010, 10:19 AM
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I guess I am confused in the constitution where it says that every citizen has the right to own a gun.
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post #20 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-09-2010, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki047 View Post
I guess I am confused in the constitution where it says that every citizen has the right to own a gun.

Quote:
"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
Ya I know that comma pisses liberals off to no end, but it's there and it's not going away, and the supreme court has already agreed.

also a good article
http://www.theblessingsofliberty.com...article11.html




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post #21 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-09-2010, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonely Raven View Post
The problem with this is, that both sides are doing their best to bias the numbers in their favor, that it's really difficult to tell what the facts are. For every report I find that shows positives to less restriction, I find two that show equal negatives.

Remember about two years ago I was asking where I can find data to backup one side or another, and there really wasn't any centralized database proving one way or another...this of course is due to the politics of it. One central, factual database proving one way or the other, would devastate a campaign point.

The data is out there, but the government isn't too eager to collect and fact check it.


Nah, Wasn't third party stats I saw! I will try to find it when I get a free chance.
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post #22 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-09-2010, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamnotgreg View Post
So you keep your guns with your grass then?
Ask the rabbits in my neighborhood LOL




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post #23 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-09-2010, 06:10 PM
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Ask the rabbits in my neighborhood LOL
So you are implying that you cant hit a simple rabbit?

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