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post #1 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-18-2010, 03:26 AM Thread Starter
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AR optic

I've been looking around for an optic for the AR. I really like the Leupold CQ/T and the ACOG. Both are ridiculously expensive. What are some other options out there? I don't want to go cheap but I also don't want to spend a fortune.
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post #2 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-18-2010, 03:56 AM
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SWFA Super Sniper, Millet DMS-1, Nikon Monarch and Bushnell to name a few. These are all affordable and good quality optics with many reviews. Ponch will be along at some point with a few more I'm sure. What options are must have for you?

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post #3 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-18-2010, 06:16 AM
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I got the Leupold Mark AR which is made for a 55gr bullet. Too much kool-aide for me.

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post #4 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-18-2010, 07:55 AM
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Find a used one. I bought a used ACOG 4x with the warranty card for a little more than half price. It was like new.

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post #5 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-18-2010, 07:57 AM
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Mikes ACOG is sweet. i have a ECOtech on mine.

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post #6 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-18-2010, 08:31 AM
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What's going to be the use of the rifle, CQ stuff or reach out and touch someone?

If you're going ROATS, look into a different platform, that round is losing too much power past 600 yards to be deadly enough IMO. AR10 would be what I'd roll for distance.

For CQ stuff, I don't like scopes as a primary, too long to get up and on point with, I know guys who run CQ/T and Nightforce 1-4x scopes that shoot fine for them but looking through a tube for target acquisition takes too long for me. If this is the route you're going, look hard into a EOTech and pair it up with a 3x magnifier for times when you need a distance shot. The 3x can be set up on a FTS mount so it doesn't interfere when you need quick engagement but can be flipped on very quickly. An Aimpoint T-1 would work too but again you have the tube thing going against you, on the other hand the battery life of a T-1 is INCREDIBLE compared to an EOTech, even if it does have a Very small dot.

Long story short, CQ to 400 yards= Reddot and magnifier, >400y Distance= Larger caliber rifle. Just my opinion though.


Ohh yeah, if you're looking at a DMS-1, check for the fungus issue they had and make sure the scope you're getting isn't affected. It's not a big deal but it won't help anything either.

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post #7 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-18-2010, 08:54 AM Thread Starter
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I'm familiar with Eotech, Aimpoint, Leupold, and ACOG. I carried the ACOG in the desert and loved it. Played with the Leupold overseas and liked it also. I like the idea of a variable power 0-3 so it could be used for CQB and longer shots and the illuminated reticle. The EOtech magnifier adds weight to the rifle and takes up extra room. I just want one solid piece.
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post #8 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-18-2010, 09:01 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Find a used one. I bought a used ACOG 4x with the warranty card for a little more than half price. It was like new.
Any suggested links where I could find used?
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post #9 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-18-2010, 10:04 AM
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Carbine or full size?

I like the EOTech for a carbine. I wouldn't bother with a magnifier though.

Trijicon's Dual illuminated reflex sights look like they'd be pretty sweet.

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post #10 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-19-2010, 04:22 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob, Esq. View Post
Carbine or full size?

I like the EOTech for a carbine. I wouldn't bother with a magnifier though.

Trijicon's Dual illuminated reflex sights look like they'd be pretty sweet.
16" barrel but old be replaced with other barrels. I chcked out the Trijicon Reflex today. It looked similar to an Aimpoint.
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post #11 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-19-2010, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spetsnaz56 View Post
16" barrel but old be replaced with other barrels. I chcked out the Trijicon Reflex today. It looked similar to an Aimpoint.
The dual illuminated RMR version is the one I'm thinking of. Looks like an Eotech with a fiber optic pickup, so you're still iluminated if the battery goes. just like the ACOG.


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post #12 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-19-2010, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob, Esq. View Post
The dual illuminated RMR version is the one I'm thinking of. Looks like an Eotech with a fiber optic pickup, so you're still iluminated if the battery goes. just like the ACOG.

I shot a M&P .45 fullsize with one of these mounted last weekend (Chris Costa's handgun), nice piece but that dot is VERY hard to get a quick sight on due to it's small lens size, it also tends to cover a decent amount of the target picture. Cool idea with the FO but I'm an EOTech guy through and through.

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post #13 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-19-2010, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmartDrug View Post
I shot a M&P .45 fullsize with one of these mounted last weekend (Chris Costa's handgun), nice piece but that dot is VERY hard to get a quick sight on due to it's small lens size, it also tends to cover a decent amount of the target picture. Cool idea with the FO but I'm an EOTech guy through and through.
yeah, that was the one drawback that I saw on the spec sheet. Smallest dot you can get is 4 MOA.

I like the EOtech 65 MOA circle/1 MOA dot reticle. If they could make a dual illuminated version of that, that'd be just tits.

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post #14 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-19-2010, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmartDrug View Post
I shot a M&P .45 fullsize with one of these mounted last weekend (Chris Costa's handgun), nice piece but that dot is VERY hard to get a quick sight on due to it's small lens size, it also tends to cover a decent amount of the target picture. Cool idea with the FO but I'm an EOTech guy through and through.
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post #15 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-19-2010, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob, Esq. View Post
yeah, that was the one drawback that I saw on the spec sheet. Smallest dot you can get is 4 MOA.

I like the EOtech 65 MOA circle/1 MOA dot reticle. If they could make a dual illuminated version of that, that'd be just tits.
Word, I'd run one. If I could get a T-1 Micro with that reticle, I'd be all about it.

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post #16 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-19-2010, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob, Esq. View Post
yeah, that was the one drawback that I saw on the spec sheet. Smallest dot you can get is 4 MOA.

I like the EOtech 65 MOA circle/1 MOA dot reticle. If they could make a dual illuminated version of that, that'd be just tits.
the smallest dual illuminated is 7moa.

you can mount them on an acog, but the RMR mounts high so you loose your cheek weld up close.
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post #17 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-20-2010, 12:36 AM
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I just use a Bushnell Trophy 3X9 on mine on a QR handle mount.

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post #18 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-20-2010, 06:40 AM Thread Starter
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Has anyone shot with the Millet scope?
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post #19 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-20-2010, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
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Has anyone shot with the Millet scope?
I have a DMS-1, great scope for the money, but again look out for the fungus on them. Battery life is good but illuminated part isn't very bright (could have just been old batteries now that I think about it), and getting a quick sight picture is also hard as it's a pretty long tube. Worked quickest at about 1.5x, was nice and crisp at 4x too. Good scopes all across the board for something on the cheap.


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post #20 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-20-2010, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spetsnaz56 View Post
I've been looking around for an optic for the AR. I really like the Leupold CQ/T and the ACOG. Both are ridiculously expensive. What are some other options out there? I don't want to go cheap but I also don't want to spend a fortune.
You get what you pay for, what are the needs of the end user?

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Originally Posted by Devil Dog View Post
SWFA Super Sniper, Millet DMS-1, Nikon Monarch and Bushnell to name a few. These are all affordable and good quality optics with many reviews. Ponch will be along at some point with a few more I'm sure. What options are must have for you?
As stated above, all decent affordable "lower" end options. Options above are more talored to DMR rifles that would be shot at distances from 200-600 yards. NOT the best choices for CQB work. And actualy the SS scope can get you out to 1000 yards with no problem, to bad .223 cant.

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Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
I got the Leupold Mark AR which is made for a 55gr bullet. Too much kool-aide for me.
Leupold's response to the niche (sp) for DMR scopes

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoFactory View Post
Find a used one. I bought a used ACOG 4x with the warranty card for a little more than half price. It was like new.
FACT, 2nd hand will save you $ but beware of knock offs. If you are not familiar with these items or dont trust your seller 100% BEWARE

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoparBoyy View Post
Mikes ACOG is sweet. i have a ECOtech on mine.
Gayest quote of the thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmartDrug View Post
What's going to be the use of the rifle, CQ stuff or reach out and touch someone?

If you're going ROATS, look into a different platform, that round is losing too much power past 600 yards to be deadly enough IMO. AR10 would be what I'd roll for distance.

For CQ stuff, I don't like scopes as a primary, too long to get up and on point with, I know guys who run CQ/T and Nightforce 1-4x scopes that shoot fine for them but looking through a tube for target acquisition takes too long for me. If this is the route you're going, look hard into a EOTech and pair it up with a 3x magnifier for times when you need a distance shot. The 3x can be set up on a FTS mount so it doesn't interfere when you need quick engagement but can be flipped on very quickly. An Aimpoint T-1 would work too but again you have the tube thing going against you, on the other hand the battery life of a T-1 is INCREDIBLE compared to an EOTech, even if it does have a Very small dot.

Long story short, CQ to 400 yards= Reddot and magnifier, >400y Distance= Larger caliber rifle. Just my opinion though.


Ohh yeah, if you're looking at a DMS-1, check for the fungus issue they had and make sure the scope you're getting isn't affected. It's not a big deal but it won't help anything either.
After you sift the fluff out of this post there are a lot of good comments. The ones I'll touch on are sight aquisition. Tubes are a bit tougher toi get used to. Red dots rule as long as you stick with larger ones ala EOTECH. The mini's while saving weight can become difficult to locate under stress. And I don't mean a 3 gun match stress. To me close quarter is anything under 200 yards. Rule of my thumb is under 200 yards with combat accuracy needs = some type of red dot. If no "precision" is needed at this distance stay away from anything with a reticle or any "tiny" red dots. And lastely, the magnafiers on red dots are all tube style and will give you the tunnel effect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spetsnaz56 View Post
I'm familiar with Eotech, Aimpoint, Leupold, and ACOG. I carried the ACOG in the desert and loved it. Played with the Leupold overseas and liked it also. I like the idea of a variable power 0-3 so it could be used for CQB and longer shots and the illuminated reticle. The EOtech magnifier adds weight to the rifle and takes up extra room. I just want one solid piece.
Good asesment. This is why i don't recommend the Eotech/Magnifier combo.
If the magnifier goes down you still have your red dot. But if your red dot goes out your basicly stuck with a 3x momocular stuck to your rifle. With teh Leupold you get a scope that functions if the illumination goes out and still have a variable power as well all in one unit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spetsnaz56 View Post
Any suggested links where I could find used?
Generaly weapons forums

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob, Esq. View Post
Carbine or full size?

I like the EOTech for a carbine. I wouldn't bother with a magnifier though.

Trijicon's Dual illuminated reflex sights look like they'd be pretty sweet.
To small, great as a back up on an ACOG but I wouldnt risk my life with just it on my rifle. But then again, 98% of end users will be shooting 3 gun with it anyway so whatever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spetsnaz56 View Post
16" barrel but old be replaced with other barrels. I chcked out the Trijicon Reflex today. It looked similar to an Aimpoint.
16" old barrel....... stick with the iron sights. use your optics budget to put toward a new top end

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob, Esq. View Post
The dual illuminated RMR version is the one I'm thinking of. Looks like an Eotech with a fiber optic pickup, so you're still iluminated if the battery goes. just like the ACOG.

Great, a smaller version of the Trijicon Tri power....beware

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmartDrug View Post
I shot a M&P .45 fullsize with one of these mounted last weekend (Chris Costa's handgun), nice piece but that dot is VERY hard to get a quick sight on due to it's small lens size, it also tends to cover a decent amount of the target picture. Cool idea with the FO but I'm an EOTech guy through and through.
WOW.... i could have sworn I mentioned something about the difficulty of sight accustion on these new micro dots.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob, Esq. View Post
yeah, that was the one drawback that I saw on the spec sheet. Smallest dot you can get is 4 MOA.

I like the EOtech 65 MOA circle/1 MOA dot reticle. If they could make a dual illuminated version of that, that'd be just tits.

He's talking about the actual size of the sight picture on theat micro sight. It's like trying to look at 13" TV when youve been used to 60"ers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonely Raven View Post
You went to a Magpul class! You fugger.
2nd gayest quote of the thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmartDrug View Post
Word, I'd run one. If I could get a T-1 Micro with that reticle, I'd be all about it.



Guilty! 3 days of fun.
3rd gayest quote of the thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClevisR6 View Post
the smallest dual illuminated is 7moa.

you can mount them on an acog, but the RMR mounts high so you loose your cheek weld up close.
Don't get caught up on teh dot size damn it, this things are not designed to be sniper scopes. There designed to be combat sights

Quote:
Originally Posted by YZFRob View Post
I just use a Bushnell Trophy 3X9 on mine on a QR handle mount.
Make sure your QR mount stays atached. It come loose your accuracy will show it

Quote:
Originally Posted by spetsnaz56 View Post
Has anyone shot with the Millet scope?
Not me

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmartDrug View Post
I have a DMS-1, great scope for the money, but again look out for the fungus on them. Battery life is good but illuminated part isn't very bright (could have just been old batteries now that I think about it), and getting a quick sight picture is also hard as it's a pretty long tube. Worked quickest at about 1.5x, was nice and crisp at 4x too. Good scopes all across the board for something on the cheap.

Could you find a bigger pic?





For what it's worth I Run the Leupold CQt, Eotech and Bushnell Holo sights and one no one mentioned.... the C-More

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post #21 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-20-2010, 11:08 AM

 
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Ponch are you using the new STS?

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post #22 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-20-2010, 03:29 PM
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Make sure your QR mount stays atached. It come loose your accuracy will show it
Uh DUH.

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post #23 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-21-2010, 07:22 AM
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Any suggested links where I could find used?
I just did a google search and found a few on ebay and gunbroker. Mine was from gunbroker.

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post #24 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-21-2010, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GunshowNick View Post
Ponch are you using the new STS?
No, the new STS is just C-More's spin on the micro dot idea. I ran the original bomb proof and in my opinion still one of the best constructed micro red dots. The Dr Optic. This little fucker is bomb proof. To bad it's to small, they are all to small.





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Uh DUH.
Just sayin'

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Originally Posted by ChicagoFactory View Post
I just did a google search and found a few on ebay and gunbroker. Mine was from gunbroker.
Always ask for the serial # and call the MFG and check it out. Beware of fakes!




Now for a product thats been around for some time but doesnt get the attention it should. The C-More tactical. It is a single unit that incorperates a standard A2 rear site so that the standard front sight can be used. Fuck back up iron sights, you can use both the red dot and teh irons at the same time if neded. Also this sight projects forward unlike the others that project rearward. the coolest part, you can change diodes at the user level so if one size dot isnt working for your application just swap it out.

http://www.cmore.com/tactical.html#Anchor-tac2



You can see how on my rifle I use a standard front sight. No way this will ever be knocked off or have to be deployed if my active sight goes down.. The system works well, I love it.

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post #25 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-21-2010, 11:05 PM
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Quick explanation of the pic of my kid. It was after a Mardi Gras party at school. She came home from school and putthat mask on to show me. Reminded me of the movie Killing Zoe, so I handed her the rifle and said smile. She was 3 in that pic.



Anyway, one more thing to point out that is illistrated in Rob's pic and my pic of the Dr. Optic.

The name of the game is KISS, and these just aint cutting it. If you look atthe micro dots in both pics, you have to mount a mount to the rifle and then mount the red dot to the mount. Then in robs pic you have to mountthe rear BUIS to the rifle and odds are there is a forward BUIS mounted to teh front! How many fucking mounting points is that...4. 4 potential areas of failure.

With the c-more you are using the standard sight, so the only mounting point for it are the 2 huge boltsthat attach it to the rifle.

Arrogance has to be earned.
Serve, Protect and Break a ......
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post #26 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-22-2010, 02:08 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you for posting the information. You might have me sold on the C-More. I just found this with pictures of various optics and reticles. http://www.gunsite.co.za/forums/show...les-(Pic-heavy)
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post #27 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-22-2010, 03:47 PM
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+1 to the C-More. They have been around for a long time and are ultra reliable. I did go with the EoTech SPS on my AR, but C-More was in the running as well.

Craig

My VB Garage

"God loves Marines, because we kill everything we see." - R. Lee Ermey, Full Metal Jacket
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