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post #1 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-07-2003, 04:58 PM Thread Starter
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Conceal & Carry...curious

Okay, so nevermind all the legal stuff - I'm sure there's plenty to discuss on that part (but I don't really care and it's my thread so shove it )

I'm curious to know why your average Joe (or Jane) would like to carry a weapon - not work related. What kinds of scenarios etc. would you feel more comfortable with one? I hear stories about people riding with guns, driving etc..

I guess I should have prefaced this by saying that I'm not a gun expert. I've shot a few and really enjoyed it (those Pepsi cans will never try THAT again!). Never got much more involved than that. I've also been in some pretty shady situations/places - but even with proper training, I'm not sure a gun would have helped? In fact, the two times I've been on the wrong side of one...I'm glad I didn't have one. It could have made an ugly situation much much worse for me.

So let's hear some thoughts my heavily armed brothers. Why do you carry? Do you think, if pressed that you would/could use it? Have you been in a situation where you wished you had it (aka would have shot someone?) ...or is it primarily for intimidation and a "sense" of security? Have I asked enough questions yet?? Seriously though, I'm very curious to hear some thoughts - on both sides.

As per usual, the more factual (and less emotional) the better.

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post #2 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-07-2003, 05:54 PM
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boy oh boy, did you nail the hot topic of the year...lol

Well, let me say a few things, since I am pretty knowing in this matter.

You should not carry a firearm if your not allowed to carry one in the state of IL, if you do and get caught, your a felon then.

A firearm must never be used out side your home being that you are a f.o.i.d. carrier as an intimidation factor, your going to jail.


Now knowing when and where IF your in a position to carry LEGALLY is a BIG responsibility!!!!!


And wishing I had one from some kind of bad position I put myself in?...never yet, PREVENTION is a key role in self preservation. looks like something bad might happen?...then why go in! unless its your job or profession to protect or hunt down someone, then that's a WHOLE other story.


and am i able to kill someone if need be in a fight for life situation, or to perserve life where the only way out or to protect my self or others was to draw my weapon and shot and possible kill someone, 24/7, YES i am



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post #3 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-07-2003, 05:57 PM
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oh and i wont answer, if i do or dont, OR better yet, if its legal for me or not.



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post #4 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-07-2003, 06:29 PM
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I used to live in Dallas. I think the law down there is that you have the right to shoot someone to protect your property as well. Interesting. Lots of people carrying down there. I remember when I was there a guy got off shooting and killing one or two people because they were stealing his hub caps.

It's interesting. The bad people already carry so why shouldn't good people be allowed too? Could it make matters worse? Probably could. Road rage is a good example, can you contain your emotions?

I always wondered if more guns are stolen out of cars or just plain stolen when carry is allowed in a state.

I probably wouldn't carry but I wouldn't mind other people carrying or I would like the right to decide. Say my wife or a theoretical daughter or even me were to get into a situation where I was being stalked or something. Damn right I'd like to be able to carry a gun in that situation.

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post #5 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-07-2003, 06:35 PM
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I think one of the reasons for CCW, is to have all the tools and advantages I can in case a BG threaten me or a loved one.

Like they say.. if you are in a fair fight, its time to rethink your tactics

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post #6 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-07-2003, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jack
Say my wife or a theoretical daughter or even me were to get into a situation where I was being stocked or something.


Being 'stocked' as being put on a shelf to be sold?
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post #7 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-07-2003, 06:45 PM
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jack and ducman, you guys got very valid points.



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post #8 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-07-2003, 08:44 PM
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I just want to buy a gun to practice shooting peices of paper. Sounds like nice stress relief. I also want a gun to compensate for my small wang, but thats a different story. I would not carry because i would prolly screw up in a situation and get the gun taken from me and beaten with it.

Personally i think getting beaten with the butt of your own gun would be much more humiliating than a small wang.

...wait ...what was the question?

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post #9 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-07-2003, 08:51 PM
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An armed society is a respectful society. 'nuff said
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post #10 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-08-2003, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by funwithfuel
An armed society is a respectful society. 'nuff said
I fully agree.

Although I think If we were ever to institute CC laws here, people should first be required to complete a self defense course, so they have some options and the right mindset before they have to pull thier weapon. If we give them out as easily as drivers licenses, people are gonna die.




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post #11 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-10-2003, 08:21 AM Thread Starter
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Good points all. (and Sean - nothing is more humiliating than a small wang.)

I can see the wisdom in the "respectful society" comment...however, I can think of about 100,000 people right off the top of my head that I would prefer not bring their guns to the mall etc. I'm all for the "Right" to carry, but I wonder how many bar fights would end up in the obituary column if more people had quick access?

Personally speaking, I was somewhat confident that the little POS that pointed his gun at me didn't have the stones to pull the trigger. Luckily I guessed correctly (twice). My fear is that if I countered and pulled out a gun...I might have forced his hand (or mine). Once two guns are pointed at each other, it's a little tougher to just call the other guy's mom a whore and walk away ya know?

Granted, I can think of situations (stalked etc.) where I'd want one...but unless I had reasonable cause for concern, I can't see dragging one around with me "just in case". Perhaps I'm naive?

So if you could carry (had all the certs etc.) would you? If so, would you carry all the time? Or just certain situations?

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post #12 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-10-2003, 08:33 AM
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yes, all the time



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post #13 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-10-2003, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Underdog
but I wonder how many bar fights would end up in the obituary column if more people had quick access?

I think even states where you can carry I think its illegal in some to carry to bars. I know here Cops arent even supposed to carry if they are going out drinkin.




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post #14 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-10-2003, 09:23 AM
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Granted, I can think of situations (stalked etc.) where I'd want one
You'd be more comfortable with a gun when you're stalking?



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post #15 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-10-2003, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Underdog


Personally speaking, I was somewhat confident that the little POS that pointed his gun at me didn't have the stones to pull the trigger. Luckily I guessed correctly (twice). My fear is that if I countered and pulled out a gun...I might have forced his hand (or mine). Once two guns are pointed at each other, it's a little tougher to just call the other guy's mom a whore and walk away ya know?

If you are in a situation were someone is pointing a gun at you and you pull yours. YOU SHOOT THEM, no pointing the gun at them waiting for them to back down. Guns are not for intimidation, they are for stopping a deadly threat. If you are not prepared to shoot and possibly kill someone then you should not be carrying. You talked your way of the situation and that is the best way to do it, but the next BG might have the stones to pull the trigger.

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post #16 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-10-2003, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ducman
If you are in a situation were someone is pointing a gun at you and you pull yours. YOU SHOOT THEM, no pointing the gun at them waiting for them to back down. Guns are not for intimidation, they are for stopping a deadly threat. If you are not prepared to shoot and possibly kill someone then you should not be carrying. You talked your way of the situation and that is the best way to do it, but the next BG might have the stones to pull the trigger.
To add to this point, you NEVER point a gun at anything you do not intend to shoot. If you even get the opportunity to pull a weapon when someone is threatening deadly force without being killed, you shoot.

In my opinion, escaping from this situation on a bluff goes well beyond luck!

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post #17 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-10-2003, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Underdog
Granted, I can think of situations (stalked etc.) where I'd want one...but unless I had reasonable cause for concern, I can't see dragging one around with me "just in case". Perhaps I'm naive?

So if you could carry (had all the certs etc.) would you? If so, would you carry all the time? Or just certain situations?
I don't like guns and (btw: I've gone to the target range and shot off a few rounds so don't jump down my throat by saying I'm scared of them, I'm not); I just hate guns alot but more so the people that use them to hurt others. I really hate those losers who use them against someone unarmed; you can so prove your point there (note the sarcasm). Any moron can shoot a gun off, little kids on the news prove that time and time again. *shrug* I feel real sorry for cops who have to deal with nutjobs all day with guns....but at least they can carry their own weapon. They have my sympthay.

I would never buy a gun for protection because someone can easily take it away from me and use it on me (what if it jams or there isn't enough time to aim....blah, blah, or if they think I'm gonna use it, it's gonna piss them off even more).

If at home, it takes time to load a gun, hell it takes time to find the gun you store in a safe place (away from kids, etc.). I know a few people who keep them for protection, but it is in those situations above (locked away, unloaded.....what good will it do?).

I would never buy one or carry one on my person....I don't even carry a purse, why carry one of those? I try not to leave myself open to situations that would arrise in my needing one to begin with. I count myself fortunate that I can say I've never needed one or wanted one.

Could have used a cop or two every now and again though
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post #18 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-10-2003, 11:27 AM Thread Starter
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...definitely beyond luck. Once in high school when the little 'bangers we happened upon wanted to fight dirty (he stuck a gun in my face to prove a point - that point being "he was right, and I was apparently wrong"). The other time was a mugging that took too long so he ran away. Got real lucky. Still, it aggrivated the ever lovin crap outta me that I had to back down because they had a gun. I'm no tough guy mind you - far from it - but a fair fight would have been nice.

If I had a gun and pulled it in either case, I would have either A) been killed, or B) killed someone else. That's the part that freaks me out...

Sticky - stalking is WAY better with a gun. It really compliments the trenchcoat!

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post #19 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-10-2003, 11:37 AM
 
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Well, it's been said that states that allow CCW seem to have less crime and problems that you might think would be associated. For some reason people think that if CCW were allowed in IL today, the streets would turn into the wild wild west tomorrow and everyone would just start blowing each other away. It hasn't happened in the states where it's allowed now so why would it happen anywhere else? Me, I'd simply like the right (not priveledge) of carrying all the time. As someone else stated, why should only criminals be allowed to have 'em? Yeah it would probably suck to kill someone but I'm guessing it would suck alot more to get yourself killed or watch a loved one take a pill. Right is right and wrong is wrong and I see nothing wrong with someone at least having the OPTION to defend themselves if they so choose and if they know what they're doing and the consequences involved. .00
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post #20 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-10-2003, 11:41 AM
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If they made it legal, I'd carry one all the time. And as for bars and guns, I've been to plenty harley bars, in which at least half of the guys carry guns. Yes, fights break up, pretty bad ones at that, but I've never seen them draw the guns on each other...

I also had a gun pointed at me, but if I was carrying one on me, it wouldn't help me at all. But, just because you carry, doesn't mean you always use it. But it would be a nice option to have, in case it could've save your/your loveds ones lifes.
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post #21 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-10-2003, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
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As someone else stated, why should only criminals be allowed to have 'em?
Actually, they are not "allowed" to have them.

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post #22 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-10-2003, 02:18 PM
 
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My example - Every time I drive my car cross country I bring a pistol in a locked case and ammo in another locked case. I also bring a tent, a cb and a lot of water just incase I have an unplaned camping stop. The pistol isnt for protection from people but rather large animals that might decide I look like a twinkie in my tent. There is a lot of nothing out west.

As for a concealed carry permit. One thing I like about it is the fact that all these geniuses in higher education cant explain why crime goes down in areas after they pass conclealed carry laws.

The main benefit as I see it is the reduced crime rate.

Would I carry as a civilian, probably not. But I would love the option
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post #23 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-10-2003, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Whatsign
My example - Every time I drive my car cross country I bring a pistol in a locked case and ammo in another locked case. I also bring a tent, a cb and a lot of water just incase I have an unplaned camping stop. The pistol isnt for protection from people but rather large animals that might decide I look like a twinkie in my tent. There is a lot of nothing out west.
Make sure you are aware of the laws in the states that you travel through. Some do not allow Handgun transport without a permit
http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws/FederalGunLaws.aspx?ID=59

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post #24 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-10-2003, 03:43 PM
 
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cool thanks for the link. I stick with the southwest for the most part where they dont care if you carry as long as you dont conceal it.
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post #25 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-10-2003, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
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Make sure you are aware of the laws in the states that you travel through. Some do not allow Handgun transport without a permit
http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws/FederalGunLaws.aspx?ID=59
Exactly.
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post #26 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-10-2003, 08:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Whatsign
One thing I like about it is the fact that all these geniuses in higher education cant explain why crime goes down in areas after they pass conclealed carry laws.
Like where? There are gun stores all over LA for instance, and you can get a concealed carry license. The crime rate there is still pretty high. Its a falsehood that just allowing people to carrry guns lowers the crime rate. Economic, and social conditions affect a crime rate much more than any gun law, pro or anti. If you're being mugged and a gun is already pointed at you, whether you have one or not doesn't matter. Trying to pull one out after the fact WILL just get you shot. It's not a Charles Bronson movie.
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post #27 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-10-2003, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
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Like where? There are gun stores all over LA for instance, and you can get a concealed carry license. The crime rate there is still pretty high. Its a falsehood that just allowing people to carrry guns lowers the crime rate. Economic, and social conditions affect a crime rate much more than any gun law, pro or anti. If you're being mugged and a gun is already pointed at you, whether you have one or not doesn't matter. Trying to pull one out after the fact WILL just get you shot. It's not a Charles Bronson movie.
LA has the most restrictive gun laws in the country. Overly restrictive gun laws prevent law abiding citizens the right to protect themselves. I believe in background checks and extensive training inorder to receive a CCW. But Criminals don't abide by the law, after all they are criminals, so how do the laws that prevent law abiding citizens from owning a gun prevent criminals from getting one.

From a USA Today

Around the world, from Australia to England, countries that have recently strengthened gun-control laws with the promise of lowering crime have instead seen violent crime soar. In the four years after the U.K. banned handguns in 1996, gun crime rose by an astounding 40%. Since Australia's 1996 laws banning most guns and making it a crime to use a gun defensively, armed robberies rose by 51%, unarmed robberies by 37%, assaults by 24% and kidnappings by 43%. While murders fell by 3%, manslaughter rose by 16%.



Second. If someone has a gun on you. you may get shot, you may not, but do nothing and you have left your life in the BG hands. Pulling your gun doesn't mean you will get shot, It all depends on your training and the situation. In my Martial Arts class, we learn how to disarm someone at point blank range without getting shot.
With the right training, your life is in your hands no the BGs

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post #28 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-11-2003, 01:11 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by obijuan
Like where?

Florida there are others

Quote:
There are gun stores all over LA for instance, and you can get a concealed carry license. The crime rate there is still pretty high.
So the question becomes... What would happen if it was repealed.

Quote:
Its a falsehood that just allowing people to carrry guns lowers the crime rate. Economic, and social conditions affect a crime rate much more than any gun law, pro or anti.
It is a factor. Like all factors its interdependent with others.
Prove to me that not having a concealed carry law in the US will reduce crime. Thats the problem nobody can claim that it does or doesnt but after a a few states passed it and crime rates fell?

Quote:
If you're being mugged and a gun is already pointed at you, whether you have one or not doesn't matter. Trying to pull one out after the fact WILL just get you shot. It's not a Charles Bronson movie.
Agreed. You seem to think I said it will stop violent crimes in progress. I dont know anyone who said that. I said it reduces the crime rate. You don't have to stop crimes in progress to lower the crime rate.
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post #29 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-11-2003, 01:35 PM
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Can you get a conceal and carry for a RPG? I want to carry one while out riding thru the hood.

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post #30 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-11-2003, 04:34 PM
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don't carry!

would if I could though. reason.....I just want too!

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