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post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-26-2003, 02:23 PM Thread Starter
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Gun Grab Alert.........

Senate Democrats Continue to Exploit War on Terror by Attacking Gun Rights

Wes Vernon, NewsMax.com

Thursday, Nov. 27, 2003 WASHINGTON
– Legislation on Capitol Hill seeks to use the threat of terrorism to do an end run around the Second Amendment and could be abused to ban sales of firearms.

The so-called Homeland Security Gun Safety Act of 2003, referred earlier this year to the Senate Judiciary Committee, purportedly seeks “to enhance the security of the Nation by increasing the time allowed to track terrorists during periods of elevated alert …”

That sounds commonsensical enough on its face. After 9/11, who could argue with wanting to track terrorists during periods of “elevated alert”?

It is in the rest of that paragraph that raises red flags for National Rifle Association: “... closing loopholes that have allowed terrorists to acquire firearms, maintaining records of certain handgun transfers during periods of heightened terrorist risk, and for other purposes.”

The NRA says the problem lies with Section 2, which says Section 922 of title 18, United States Code, is amended so that sections of the gun law “shall not apply during any period in which the threat condition under the Homeland Security Advisory system is elevated, high or severe.” Later it stipulates that the changes “shall remain in effect until the threat condition has been at the lowest level for 180 consecutive days.”

The NRA sees the bill as something that is being slipped under the radar. The “terrorist threat condition” has never been down to its lowest level since 9/11, the Second Amendment group notes.

'Permanent Suspension of Law'

“In effect, it’s a permanent suspension of existing law,” NRA Communications Director Andrew Arulanandum told NewsMax.com. Further, he sees it an “an attempt to create a national firearm registration system.”

The NRA spokesman says the bill would suspend statutes that limit law enforcement to three days for completing background checks of firearms purchases, as well as a law that requires the destruction of records of anyone whose purchase is approved, “meaning they’re law abiding.”

It would mean “a suspension of rules that protect firearms owners, as long as we’re in a state of heightened alertness,” Arulanandam declared.

Larry Pratt, executive director of Gun Owners of America, said when the legislation was introduced: "These are the very laws that were used by the Nazis to register everybody's guns, to confiscate the Jews' guns and then to commit genocide. Why the senator would want to do something as horrible as that, I can't understand."

Supporters of the Constitution said at the time that law enforcement agencies could block sales of firearms by refusing to complete background checks.

Sen. Lautenberg’s office did not get back to NewsMax by deadline. However, a Senate staffer requesting anonymity told us that “is not the interpretation” the legislation’s co-sponsors “want it to mean, if that’s what you mean.”

Lautenberg’s co-sponsors are Sens. Edward Kennedy, D-Mass., Jon Corzine, D-N.J., and Jack Reed, D-R.I.

This staffer could see “how someone may misunderstand it,” but that’s not the impression supporters of the bill want “to get across.”

NRA maintains that if one wants to avoid “misinterpretation,” the wording could be made clear. The statutes are loaded with laws that elected officials wrote in vague wording so as to leave it to unelected regulators or police to enforce its unpopular provisions and let them take the blame for any backlash.

When he introduced the bill, Lautenberg said that to “protect our homeland and keep our families safe, we must deal directly with the ability of terrorists and criminals to get their hands on guns.”

The problem with that, says NRA’s Arulanandam, is that it affects the ability of law-abiding citizens to “get their hands on guns” for their protection.

Second Amendment watchdogs will keep their eyes on the progress of this one.

Lautenberg’s co-sponsors are Sens. Edward Kennedy, D-Mass., Jon Corzine, D-N.J., and Jack Reed, D-R.I.

Now back to your regulary scheduled programming.

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post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-26-2003, 02:26 PM
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Typical bullshit. lets stop lgal gun sales cause that might be dangerous. Terrorists are not walking into megasports to get guns, they are buying them out of vans in ally's leave the responsible gun owners alone.




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post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-26-2003, 02:40 PM
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Sign me up to fight the bill, not to mention you have to be a U S citizen, and clear back ground, and now with anyone even remotely fishy trust me there getting probed, if anything FFL dealers need to be the one that are watched more.


not the citizens that purchase from legal stand points.



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post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-26-2003, 03:19 PM
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Now that's some

ken - ya don't need to be a citizen
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post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-26-2003, 03:24 PM
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Now that's some

ken - ya don't need to be a citizen

Are you sure????? I was under the impression non-citizens didn't have rights or privilages Nor should they for that matter

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post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-26-2003, 03:29 PM
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If ya have a green card you can get a FOID. Not to mention states that don't even require anything other than drivers license or and ID to prove age.
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post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-26-2003, 03:29 PM Thread Starter
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Actually, under our constitution, all people have rights, not only citizens of this country. It's been getting a little confusing lately, what with the enemy combatants being held by the military and all.

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post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-26-2003, 03:37 PM
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Actually, under our constitution, all people have rights, not only citizens of this country. It's been getting a little confusing lately, what with the enemy combatants being held by the military and all.
True....I guess rights was the wrong word.

If you can get a FOID card on a Green Card thats [email protected]#N BS It sucks when these worthless POS people come here....don't contribute to society or pay taxes and use and abuse our country.

Unless they prove they want to contribute to society they shouldn't be allowed any privilages.

If people wanna visit and see what's up ....cool. But at some point they become freeloaders. Kinda like the guy that lives on your couch and drinks your beer. It's cool for a visit but when they won't leave it sucks

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post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-26-2003, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Crazy
True....I guess rights was the wrong word.

If you can get a FOID card on a Green Card thats [email protected]#N BS It sucks when these worthless POS people come here....don't contribute to society or pay taxes and use and abuse our country.

Unless they prove they want to contribute to society they shouldn't be allowed any privilages.

If people wanna visit and see what's up ....cool. But at some point they become freeloaders. Kinda like the guy that lives on your couch and drinks your beer. It's cool for a visit but when they won't leave it sucks
Hold up. You're sayin' I'm a POS, and I don't contribute to society?? I pay taxes just as you. To become a Citizen ya have to have the green card for 5 years. I think you might have confused people with tourist visa with people with a greencard.
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post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-26-2003, 03:54 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by bwa
Hold up. You're sayin' I'm a POS, and I don't contribute to society?? I pay taxes just as you. To become a Citizen ya have to have the green card for 5 years. I think you might have confused people with tourist visa with people with a greencard.

NO, NO, I think he wants you to stop drinkin' his beer and get up off the couch.

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post #11 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-26-2003, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by bwa
Hold up. You're sayin' I'm a POS, and I don't contribute to society?? I pay taxes just as you. To become a Citizen ya have to have the green card for 5 years. I think you might have confused people with tourist visa with people with a greencard.

No.......you pay taxes and contribute then you're not a POS. If you come here and abuse our system you are a POS. I still don't believe someone with a Green Card should have a right such as gun ownership. Not that your a bad person....I believe it creates to big of a loophole for those that mean us harm.

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post #12 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-26-2003, 04:14 PM
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I can understand not being able to get a handgun. But i don't see a problem with someone buyin' a shotgun for huntin.

sloroll -
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post #13 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-26-2003, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by bwa
I can understand not being able to get a handgun. But i don't see a problem with someone buyin' a shotgun for huntin.

sloroll -

I agree man. I mean a shotgun cant be sawed off and used for things besides hunting, that never happens.

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post #14 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-26-2003, 04:39 PM
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I agree man. I mean a shotgun cant be sawed off and used for things besides hunting, that never happens.
Your right!!!! and it's not like an assult rifle is classified the same as a hunting rifle. So a terrorist wouldn't buy an assult rifle "for hunting" right????

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post #15 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-26-2003, 07:07 PM
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well id say if you have to have a green card for 5 years, and your a good person, then i almost dont see a reason to why not.

but question BWA since you are one of the green card carriers?
(not trying to start something trying to learn)

after 5 years and you have to have a green card, why cant or you arnt considered an american? do you have to wait for a while or is it declairing yourself american? i dunno, what nationality are you anyway?



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post #16 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-26-2003, 07:51 PM
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Ok, Let me clear up some things, since the term GreenCard is not even correct.

To come to the United States the legal way you have several choices... the most popular are

1)Via Relationship with a citizen (Being adopted, the spring off, or marring a citizen)
2)Work Visa, Political Assylum,Close family Member that is a citizen (Brother, Sister) asking for permison to bring you into the country.

The first step is to become a Permanent Resident. You then get an Resident Alien Card(Formerly known as the green card, as they used to be green back in the day but they have not been for some years).

A Legal immigrant after 5 years of non interrupting residency can apply to become a citizen. A Resident by marriage can do it after 3 years. Work visa is some longer period of time, I want to say 10 years but I am not 100%

Some other ways to get there quicker, is joining our armed forces, which makes you automatically elegible to apply for citizenship after the service.

Becoming a citizen is a privilage and not a right, and I for one concider myself American, even though I was born in another country.

To be fair to the illegals, American has leaches to the system that were born here, but with that in mind, I do not think that anyone that is not a citizen of this country "deserves" shit(Besides from basic human rights of course). If they want to earn it thru the proper channels, excellent. I have worked very hard to become a part of this society and think that others should work hard to get there also, if they don't well, their loss.

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post #17 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-26-2003, 08:26 PM
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it sounds like you must be here atleast 5 years to apply for american citizenship under a 1 and 2 from what logtar said, THEN IF you DONT do it yet or become granted, you MUST wait 10 years to work LEGALLY and collect monies and PAY taxes, am i correct?

granted he or she isnt married to an american to speed up the whole thing.



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post #18 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-26-2003, 09:55 PM
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Well, since I found more info on this to educate myself, I agree legal aliens should also be entitled to the constitution of the united states as we all are.

There for I say who cares in this cause there shouldn't be any remorse to legal aliens, cause that's ensultive period.

I think not knowing and assuming you know is wrong, that's why I asked to find out and then searched for some info on my own, everyone should be able to defend themselves and there family around the world PERIOD!



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post #19 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-26-2003, 10:24 PM
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Guns, religious liberties, motorcycle use. They're all threatened.

If we want to stop terrorism we must do it at the citizen level. When crime can be decreased through shall issue CCW cards then terrorism can be fought in a similar fashion.

I can't legally carry a gun in Ohio unless I am a Sheriff's Deputy. If I donate enough money to the current Sheriff's political fund I can, MAYBE, become a "Special Deputy" and carry a gun. In Ohio even the FBI Agents MUST be deputized to carry a firearm in this state.

I worked for a Private Investigator and was allowed to carry a firearm only if I was working. If you want to stop terror, like crime, you have to give people the opportunity to take action with decisive force.

Gun owners are usually fighting fires, such as this one, instead of working in a proactive direction. I was fighting to get gun saftey in the public schools here and City Council, along with the Mayor, refused to have anything to do with something that might possibly put gun owners in a positive spotlight.

I think we need every gun owner to start getting his friends to sign petitions. I did. I sent petitions to every gun shop in Ohio. I sent copies of the petitions to every Representative and Senator in Ohio that would listen. Let's not be reactive lets be proactive, on this and every gun issue. Call, write, send money, and talk to the media.

The sad thing about this type of action is when religious liberties are infringed upon people think it's no big deal, when gun ownership is infringed upon people think it's no big deal. These are the beginnings. All liberties are threatened and guns are one cog in the machine that makes taking them all the more easily completed.

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post #20 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-26-2003, 11:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Odysseys
well id say if you have to have a green card for 5 years, and your a good person, then i almost dont see a reason to why not.

but question BWA since you are one of the green card carriers?
(not trying to start something trying to learn)

after 5 years and you have to have a green card, why cant or you arnt considered an american? do you have to wait for a while or is it declairing yourself american? i dunno, what nationality are you anyway?
first thing is first. And Ken, not takin' it personal at all . I'm a 100% Polack I came here in '95, a 13 year old visiting my dad for the first time in 8 years. I came here on a tourist visa. By the end of the summer, my parents decided it'd be good for me to stay (this is after all the country of opportunities). Without gettin' into details, I stayed, was illegal until '99. In the meantime, I worked, payed money towards my SS (which was not valid for employment, so I was basically givin' away money to the government), and payin' taxes. My dad ends up being and alcoholic abusive asshole, move out at 18 and go thru hell first two years. Didn't take a goddamn penny from the state or the country. Now, I'm gonna be eligible for citizenship next year. It's still my choice to do that or not. Some countries don't allow you to have dual citizenship. And, not many can relate to it, but even though I'm livin' in this country, it's hard to give up who you are.

Chris & Brian - sawed off shotgun is not legal in the first place. If I want to be a crook, I won't be goin' to a store to pick up a gun. I'll go to a fuckin' gettho, and pick one up, unregistered, for 1/3 of the price. The reason I said I could understand the handguns being restricted, is beause no matter what, you can hide a handgun MUCH fuckin' easier than any other fireweapon.
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post #21 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-26-2003, 11:43 PM
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And, not many can relate to it, but even though I'm livin' in this country, it's hard to give up who you are.
I can relate, but keep in mind that no matter what the other country thinks or has written in its laws, the United States does not allow dual citizenship.

When you become an American, that is pretty much it, because you are pledging to be an American, and ONLY and American.

That said, I am very proud of my heritage, culture, who I am and where I came from. But as far as a country I have a lot more to thank America for, than where I was born. I call myself an American very proudly, and to me it does not mean denouncing or ignoring where I came from... Everyone here knows I am Colombian, and I am quite proud of that fact, but I live here, love it here, so that makes me an American.

Since moving here I have always played with the tought, would I be able to pick up a weapon if I was called by the armed forces and fire on other Colombians... and you know what... with the current situation over there, I would kill as many Colombian terrorists as I could.

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post #22 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-27-2003, 12:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by logtar
I can relate, but keep in mind that no matter what the other country thinks or has written in its laws, the United States does not allow dual citizenship.

When you become an American, that is pretty much it, because you are pledging to be an American, and ONLY and American.

That said, I am very proud of my heritage, culture, who I am and where I came from. But as far as a country I have a lot more to thank America for, than where I was born. I call myself an American very proudly, and to me it does not mean denouncing or ignoring where I came from... Everyone here knows I am Colombian, and I am quite proud of that fact, but I live here, love it here, so that makes me an American.

Since moving here I have always played with the tought, would I be able to pick up a weapon if I was called by the armed forces and fire on other Colombians... and you know what... with the current situation over there, I would kill as many Colombian terrorists as I could.
Well, you're wrong. US isn't the one not allowing dual citizenship. It's the other countries. I know that cause I've got buddies that have both. And US has no problem with that.

As for the second part of your comment, I didn't sign up in the army. Therefore, I'm not gonna be the first one to be sent over as "meat" to fight whatever the governmant decides to fight at the time. If you are so ready to die for this country, why aren't you in Iraq?

I'm not sayin' America is horrible, or treats me wrong. But you also have to remember what America is. It's a melting pot. Unless you're an American Native, your roots are in another country. And as such, any of you, that are sayin' that immigrants should get da fuck outta here are assholes full of shit. Cause if it wasn't for one of your family members coming here as an immigrant, you wouldn't be here.

(PS, Logtar, ya know this is nothin' towards you bro, just a general comment)
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post #23 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-27-2003, 01:06 AM
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Quote:
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US isn't the one not allowing dual citizenship. It's the other countries.
I do believe that it's correct that the US government does not require renouncing citizenship, although I'm not certain.

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post #24 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-27-2003, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by bwa
Therefore, I'm not gonna be the first one to be sent over as "meat" to fight whatever the governmant decides to fight at the time. If you are so ready to die for this country, why aren't you in Iraq?
Wait a minute..........Is that what you think of our soldiers as FUCKING MEAT??? BWA I AM APPALED YOU SAID THAT! Thats total bullshit!!! Let me tell you from first hand experience surviving through 2 (well known) combat experiences and a few unknowns that i fucking volunteered to go and was first in line! And by GOD i would do it all over again the same way! Meat you say..........well i say "Those soldiers are believers and trained very well to defend OUR liberty and freedoms!" Just remember this is a VOLUNTARY military. Do you think when i enlisted at age 16 1/2 i knew what i was getting into? No i did not but i knew that the military was for me. I signed up at 16 1/2 and FINALLY as soon as i turned 18 and graduated i was gone! I probably have "worked" in more countries than most people have ever been. When i went through the FBI background for my job here they could not believe all the countries i was in and it did'nt list a third of them. If you really feel that way Jay (i do not know why you would) but if you do may i suggest you go to a veterans hospital with me next Thanksgiving and talk to a few Veterans with missing parts and more and just ask them how they feel about being a Vet and the ability to serve the COUNTRY, not the Gov. That my friend is 2 different things.
I volunteer to distribute Thanksgiving meals to Vets with the VFW and Legion just to let them know we stick together and they are not forgotten.

I must say if you meant what you typed and the way it is worded it really hurt. Yeah that kinda hit personal and i know it was just a statement not directed at anyone but i am sure it hurt a lot of military members. Just sad to read that Jay..................

<--Kelly

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post #25 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-27-2003, 12:11 PM
freaking newbies, man there slow, ha ha ha
 
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Amen Kelly, don't get the impression from one ignorant asshole that's how all of the kids from our generation feel about veterans. It is frustrating listening to him sometimes, knowing my dad and both grandpa's fought in wars, protecting the very freedoms that allow him to call them pieces of meat.

Fuck off Jay.
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post #26 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-27-2003, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Labdog
Wait a minute..........Is that what you think of our soldiers as FUCKING MEAT??? BWA I AM APPALED YOU SAID THAT! Thats total bullshit!!! Let me tell you from first hand experience surviving through 2 (well known) combat experiences and a few unknowns that i fucking volunteered to go and was first in line! And by GOD i would do it all over again the same way! Meat you say..........well i say "Those soldiers are believers and trained very well to defend OUR liberty and freedoms!" Just remember this is a VOLUNTARY military. Do you think when i enlisted at age 16 1/2 i knew what i was getting into? No i did not but i knew that the military was for me. I signed up at 16 1/2 and FINALLY as soon as i turned 18 and graduated i was gone! I probably have "worked" in more countries than most people have ever been. When i went through the FBI background for my job here they could not believe all the countries i was in and it did'nt list a third of them. If you really feel that way Jay (i do not know why you would) but if you do may i suggest you go to a veterans hospital with me next Thanksgiving and talk to a few Veterans with missing parts and more and just ask them how they feel about being a Vet and the ability to serve the COUNTRY, not the Gov. That my friend is 2 different things.
I volunteer to distribute Thanksgiving meals to Vets with the VFW and Legion just to let them know we stick together and they are not forgotten.

I must say if you meant what you typed and the way it is worded it really hurt. Yeah that kinda hit personal and i know it was just a statement not directed at anyone but i am sure it hurt a lot of military members. Just sad to read that Jay..................
*Note to self - don't post on the board when drunk*

Alright, first off, John - sorry if I sounded like I was attackin' you. Now that I read the posts sober, it seems like it might be taken that way. Didn't mean that.

Kelly - I meant no disrespect to the soldiers and what they believe or fight for. And I've got veterans in my family, from WWII, so I know how they feel. But if you don't feel like during some missions our boys are sent out to uselessly die, than we must be livin' in two different worlds....
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post #27 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-27-2003, 12:17 PM
YO MAMA
 
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ok , i better step in here, 1st off, i dont think anyone has a problem with LEGAL aliens here when they are trying to do things the right way.

so everyone shut the fuck up on that.


and as far as what peoples personal feelings about fighting wars and being on the front lines views, there are fighters and there are not. that being said, i think everyone thats not in some fight for justice, just be thankfull others are out there fighting for us period.

so shut the fuck up.


me saying shut the fuck up is more of a , i think its time to keep your personal views (who ever it might be) to yourself and stop a possible fire before it starts.

this thread can get ugly real quick, and i dont want that for no one, we all have a place in this world, and i think we need to live our own lives when it comes to what we feel in our life and what we must do for it and or country. and on that note, today being thanks giving, give thanks for this country we are in.

i am trying not to get personal in this matter and let my views and my opinions get the better of me, instead ill stay nutrual, because this is a fucken website and means shit! when it comes to personal and country actions i take to protect my family.

so again, we all have a place in this country with our personal country life dutys, we all should be thankfull there are people to fight for our freedom and be thankfull our freedom is still here as it does come at a price, and by far the price is sometimes the ultimate price with your life.

happy thanksgiving.



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post #28 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-27-2003, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by CRAZe Inc

Fuck off Jay.
Right back at ya
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post #29 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-27-2003, 12:31 PM
YO MAMA
 
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god dam, i cant even go take a shit on thanksgiving morning.

ill take care of them when i get back home.

no more INSULTS!

and if i find someone starting another thread to keep this shit going, ill ban who ever it is!

this is nuts guys for christ sakes its thanksgiving



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