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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-07-2013, 06:20 AM Thread Starter
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AR build Where to start?

Like the title says, I'm thinking of building an AR, I don't know much about them.
I decided I'd like to have an AR to mess around with at the range, and since I'm a mechanical guy I thought why not build one?
Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks

Steve
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-07-2013, 06:55 AM
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Steve you actually don't "build" an AR, it's kind of Legos, you assemble one. I have assembled 3, I went the plain jane way, I hate the shiat they are doing to most rifles today and the "tact-cool" crap. K.I.S.S. it, ATI makes reasonable quality stocks and accessories for a fair price. Receivers I went with Olympic, Douglass Heavy barrels and Tiney triggers. But that was the 90's and I'm old school.

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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-07-2013, 12:46 PM
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:P disagree with rick2.0,

you do build an AR when you take into considering that designing it to work as efficiently as possible for your usage, cant be slapped together. So that brings planning and particular components into play. Assembly of it is basic and very similar between units.


Bring Beer and ill run you thru them and options, etc.

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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-07-2013, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FiReBReTHa View Post
:P disagree with rick2.0,

you do build an AR when you take into considering that designing it to work as efficiently as possible for your usage, cant be slapped together. So that brings planning and particular components into play. Assembly of it is basic and very similar between units.


Bring Beer and ill run you thru them and options, etc.
Go see Firebretha. He's kinda set in his ways (modern, high end ARs - Not that there is anything wrong with that ), but knows how to pinch a penny and get the most for your $$.

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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-08-2013, 06:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FiReBReTHa View Post
:P disagree with rick2.0,

you do build an AR when you take into considering that designing it to work as efficiently as possible for your usage, cant be slapped together. So that brings planning and particular components into play. Assembly of it is basic and very similar between units.


Bring Beer and ill run you thru them and options, etc.
Well its a matter of opinion, you order pieces, barrels, lowers, uppers, tact cool stuff, triggers etc, etc and put it together (you assumed I "slapped" them together). A highly trained gunsmith "builds" guns, unless you have a CNC machine and machining your own parts you are not building a gun, you are assembling parts you have acquired. 99% of the AR "builds" are purely cosmetics, just because I took a POS K98 I had given to me, disassembled it, cleaned it, dropped a match grade trigger in it and put an ATI stock, bi-pod and a good scope on it doesn't mean I built it. And explain this to me I have seen way too many AR "builds" with paper thin barrels, is that to save weight? To say "oh it only weighs blah, blah pounds"? I went with heavy barrels, because I wanted accuracy after firing 20 rounds in rapid succession, was my thinking wrong

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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-08-2013, 06:16 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the replies guys, Firebreatha, I'll PM you next week, I'll bring the beer for some pointers. Rick, I understand what your saying, I realize the difference between assembling (what id be doing) and machining parts to fit.

Steve
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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-08-2013, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickC1957 View Post
Well its a matter of opinion, you order pieces, barrels, lowers, uppers, tact cool stuff, triggers etc, etc and put it together (you assumed I "slapped" them together). A highly trained gunsmith "builds" guns, unless you have a CNC machine and machining your own parts you are not building a gun, you are assembling parts you have acquired. 99% of the AR "builds" are purely cosmetics, just because I took a POS K98 I had given to me, disassembled it, cleaned it, dropped a match grade trigger in it and put an ATI stock, bi-pod and a good scope on it doesn't mean I built it. And explain this to me I have seen way too many AR "builds" with paper thin barrels, is that to save weight? To say "oh it only weighs blah, blah pounds"? I went with heavy barrels, because I wanted accuracy after firing 20 rounds in rapid succession, was my thinking wrong

But what you were describing is a post build modification.

99% is an extremely high number. You gotta come by and see the variations of components that are utilized for function and not just "pretty"

Now, you do have to differentiate between 2 types of people. "I just want an AR" and the second, "I want to do this with my AR".
The second has a function in mind that can then differentiate to how the parts are chosen and the build is done. Once the build is planned out you can assemble it. Assembling can be done by anyone with a skill set in wrench turning. "Building" is closer to the word, "Designing" for me.


After all, Isn't a house just assembling concrete and wood?
A street race car just assembling parts from boxes? It takes a plan to get everything to work together as efficiently as possible to complete a goal. One might say... a Build Plan?



Technology is what also helped change what you can do with barrels so now they are able to shave away excessive weight (which costs more because of machine time) so it's not to save money but the users arms. The less fatigued you are the better you can perform. If a user is losing that much accuracy after 20 shots they need to look into something else or a barrel that they shouldn't have tried to save money on and being a cheap ass. Not saying you, your logic is good and filled a function/reason, just in general to people who have had similar complaints and bought cheap chinesez crap.

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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-08-2013, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickC1957 View Post
...And explain this to me I have seen way too many AR "builds" with paper thin barrels, is that to save weight? To say "oh it only weighs blah, blah pounds"? I went with heavy barrels, because I wanted accuracy after firing 20 rounds in rapid succession, was my thinking wrong
it's all about function. the accepted battle accuracy for infantry rifle is about 2.5-3 MOA - light weight barrel of good manufacture is well within this specification, and you save weight where it counts most on your rifle - 14.5 LW is the way to go if you are going to run and gun, especially in urban environment - where you never shot over 100-150 yards and even with 3 MOA rifle you get 5" groups in that range - enough to bust a zombie's head

if you are building SPR or designated marksman rifle to touch up to 300-500 yards and you want to keep your shots in the center of mass of human size target, you need 1-1.5 MOA rifle - and thats where longer heavier barrels are going to play it's role, as well as a good trigger
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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-09-2013, 05:51 AM
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Hey Steve sorry to bastardize your thread. Let me know what you go with. I still disagree with Firebreather most AR "builds" are all about the "tact cool" look, people want a swiss army knife in the shape of an AR rifle. Remember design starts with paper, pencil and an idea, not a list of parts

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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-09-2013, 06:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samal View Post
designated marksman rifle to touch up to 300-500 yards and you want to keep your shots in the center of mass of human size target, you need 1-1.5 MOA rifle - and thats where longer heavier barrels are going to play it's role, as well as a good trigger
Well that's definitely my ARs, 300 yards absolutely no problem, up to 500 requires me not being so caffeinated As for running, gunning and saving my arms because the weight, that's why I hit the gym for at least an hour everyday and have done 5 Triathlons this year (so far) Like I said I love old school stuff, the simpler something is the less things to go wrong. I'm still glad I can hit stuff out to 300 yards with iron sights (nothing worse than the battery dying in your sights) and slapping on POS Red Star scope out to 500. The "new" ARs to me appear to be flimsy, when I run out of ammo, my AR becomes a hammer

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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-16-2013, 04:42 AM
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Originally Posted by RickC1957 View Post
Well that's definitely my ARs, 300 yards absolutely no problem, up to 500 requires me not being so caffeinated As for running, gunning and saving my arms because the weight, that's why I hit the gym for at least an hour everyday and have done 5 Triathlons this year (so far) Like I said I love old school stuff, the simpler something is the less things to go wrong. I'm still glad I can hit stuff out to 300 yards with iron sights (nothing worse than the battery dying in your sights) and slapping on POS Red Star scope out to 500. The "new" ARs to me appear to be flimsy, when I run out of ammo, my AR becomes a hammer
If you run out of ammo LOL arent you suppose to take care of the threat so it doesn't get that close before you run out of said ammo.

go time traveler style and go back in time, fuck his grandma, then shoot forward in time and then fuck his mom. Then return back to present state and call him a the product of two incest whores and hes your son and show video of you plowing the both members of his family. .
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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-16-2013, 08:35 AM
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Don't forget barrel harmonics. Through experimentation and documentation (the Scientific method!) a lot of the better barrel builders have found sweet spots in the barrel harmonics that allow them to build 1moa or better barrels that aren't heavy, target crown, 20" bull barrels.

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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-20-2013, 10:35 AM
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Just finished an AR build (Attempted to build a decent AR on a budget):

Price (including headspacing and build by a professional Gunsmith): $650'ish

Complete 16" M4 style upper (BlackThorne products): $300 (Including shipping)
BCG (Palmetto state armory - full auto profile, cosmetic blemish): $99 (I think they are down to $89 now)
Charging handle (Palmetto state armory): $15
Stock and Buffer Assembly (Palmetto state armory): $30
LPK (RGuns in Carpentersville): $80
Lower (Palmetto state armory - ATI Omni, Polymer lower): $79 (Including FFL)
Professional Assembly (Breech and Barrel - Shorewood. Getzapped on the IllinoisCarry Forum): $35 (Lower assembly and Headspacing).
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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-20-2013, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karim18 View Post
Just finished an AR build (Attempted to build a decent AR on a budget):

Price (including headspacing and build by a professional Gunsmith): $650'ish

Complete 16" M4 style upper (BlackThorne products): $300 (Including shipping)
BCG (Palmetto state armory - full auto profile, cosmetic blemish): $99 (I think they are down to $89 now)
Charging handle (Palmetto state armory): $15
Stock and Buffer Assembly (Palmetto state armory): $30
LPK (RGuns in Carpentersville): $80
Lower (Palmetto state armory - ATI Omni, Polymer lower): $79 (Including FFL)
Professional Assembly (Breech and Barrel - Shorewood. Getzapped on the IllinoisCarry Forum): $35 (Lower assembly and Headspacing).
Notes: I had a spare red dot lying around, otherwise you will need to add a rear sight to this build.

Also arpartsfinder is AWESOME for finding lowest prices on parts. This build for another $20-30 can be built with a forged lower. Additionally, I am sure LPK can be found for less now.
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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-21-2013, 05:18 PM
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Complete barrelled upper for $300? if it was barrelled, why did you need headspacing? if not barrelled, what kind of barrell?

Edit: http://blackthorneproducts.com/cart/...roducts_id=310

found it - not crome-lined, 1:9 twist.... but still a dirt cheap for complete one. Hard to vouch for "decency " of components at this price....

Last edited by samal; 08-21-2013 at 05:20 PM.
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post #16 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-22-2013, 12:56 PM
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At the price I bought the upper at, you can understand why I would not be 100% trusting of it... works fine for basic range use out to 100 yards (havent tried further). Again, I was trying to build an uber-budget AR.
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post #17 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-04-2013, 07:48 AM
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Update to my AR build info, CTD has the polymer lowers for $38
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post #18 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-17-2013, 11:27 AM
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No longer recommending the ATI OMNI Lower. AIM surplus has milled aluminum lowers in the $70-80 range and they are far superior in quality (NOT HYPOTHETICAL).
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post #19 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-18-2013, 01:20 PM
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I have an AR15 with Colt upper, and noveske lower. Definitely quality stuff as I've shot over 5k rounds through it without a hiccup.
I think the most money should be spent in the upper because that's whats going to be taking most of the pounding
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