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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-26-2004, 11:07 AM Thread Starter
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More gun legislation

Well....I'm not sure this one leaves me with a warm fuzzy feeling inside, but that's just my opinion.




Lower gun permit age advances

March 26, 2004

BY DAVE MCKINNEY AND LESLIE GRIFFY Sun-Times Springfield Bureau Advertisement






SPRINGFIELD -- The Illinois Legislature handed gun rights advocates a victory Thursday by passing dual plans to let teens as young as 18 get state firearm permits without their parents' approval.

Passed over the objections of Mayor Daley's administration, the National Rifle Association initiative would relax a state law that requires anyone under 21 to have their parents' permission before obtaining a gun permit.

"If you're old enough to go to be in the service and old enough to vote, I think you're old enough to own a firearm," said Sen. Gary Forby (D-Benton), the bill's chief Senate sponsor.

The Senate passed its version to the House by a 30-26 vote, while the House sent the Senate a separate version that passed by a 65-38 margin. Each legislative chamber must approve what the other passed before anything heads to Gov. Blagojevich for final approval.

A separate state law bars anyone from buying handguns unless they are 21 or older. Under that provision, younger permit holders would still be prohibited from purchasing handguns. But they could borrow handguns, be given them as gifts or inherit them and still be within the law, critics charged.

"This bill is a very dangerous piece of legislation," said Rep. Deborah Graham (D-Chicago), who cast a "no" vote. "This is opening up the floodgates for other problems."

Until now, in a bow to Downstate hunting families, the state allows children as young as 10 years old to obtain firearm permits as long as their parents consent. Missouri and Indiana allow 18-year-olds to get state gun permits without parental permission, supporters said.

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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-26-2004, 11:16 AM
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I don't think it's a bad thing.

a) this does not allow them to purchase a handgun, and if they were going to recieve it as a gift, "borrow" or steal one they sure as hell werent going to wait till their 21st birthdayanyway.

b) I agree with the old enough to die for your country and vote old enough to at least be able to buy a rifle without mom or dad signing off on it.
That makes no sense, technicaly anyone in the state that handles a firearm MUST have a VALID FOID card.... you know how many cops I know who never even had one.

I'm not to concerened with this "opening up the floodgate" to anything. Those that want the firearms already have them Legaly or not!!!

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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-26-2004, 12:08 PM
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Ya this is just for legal gun owners. We dont really have to worry about them. its the gang bangers with mac 10's we have to worry about. and they dont care what the laws are. I had a handgun when I was young, of course it was technically my dads. We used to go to the range all the time while I was growing up.




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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-26-2004, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by GsxrTony
its the gang bangers with mac 10's we have to worry about.

agree

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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-26-2004, 12:20 PM Thread Starter
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I guess I'm thinking more along the lines of people in this age group being a bit more impressionable and gulible.....which I might argue is the reason they are attractive to the armed forces. As civilians they may be more impressionable for people to convince them to buy guns for them.

Put it this way....if I'm a hardened criminal and want a gun I think I'd have an easier time convincing an 18 year old kid to buy me a gun than someone like Tony or Ofc Ponch. This reasoning may be isolated to miniscule circumstances but opening up the window for this age group to obtain FOID's may increase those circumstances substantially.

I dunno....maybe I'm being overly analytical, (not me right? ) It just seems the risk reward may not be in our favor here. How many 18 year olds live with their parents, and do we think the risk of giving them this convienience of getting there own FOID's instead of having their parents sign off is worth the reward of the possible consequences????? Is there any reward???? I'm not sure I'm convinced there is.

What benefit do you guys see for this legislation?

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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-26-2004, 12:23 PM
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Ohi agree with you, they could be easily swayed. but the thing you quoted siad they could own them but there was a law saying they couldnt buy them. As long as a parent or gardian is buyin gfor them than its cool I would think.




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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-26-2004, 12:31 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by GsxrTony
Ohi agree with you, they could be easily swayed. but the thing you quoted siad they could own them but there was a law saying they couldnt buy them. As long as a parent or gardian is buyin gfor them than its cool I would think.
From what I quoted the law would relax the law that requires parents to sign off. Meaning the parents have lost control of knowing if their kids are buying guns (in that age bracket) Given this only applies for rifles. If it were handguns I think I would feel even worse about it.

I still know what the risk is here....but what is the reward??

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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-26-2004, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Crazy


I dunno....maybe I'm being overly analytical
Not at all. You make a valid point when it comes to the acountability of the person.
But that's not to say a persons gulability(is that a word) is proportional to their age. How many Older guys did we convince to buy us beer b4 we were of age. A teen drunk in a car is just as dangerous as one with a gun. Or how bout all those older kids that convinced us to give them a ride somewhere when our parents let us use the car.

Maybe some of us fell for it some did'nt.
My point again goes back to holding people accountable for their actions, teaching them what the consiquences are and following through on the laws we make.
To me this shows us more how society still like to point the finger at things other than what we control. And control starts at home by teaching kids morals, respect and if need be punishment.


i'll get off the box now.

The guy that benefits is the 18 year old that moved out of mom and dads house because they are drunks and he wants a better life and like to hunt and wants to be legal.
It benefits by teaching responsibility through detaching us from mom's tit. so to speak

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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-26-2004, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Crazy
Meaning the parents have lost control of knowing if their kids are buying guns (in that age bracket)

Buddy,

The majority of parents lost control of their kids a long time ago already.
We allowed society to get this way, and from the looks of it we'll never get it back to the way it used to be

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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-26-2004, 12:35 PM
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Re: More gun legislation

Quote:
Originally posted by Crazy
A separate state law bars anyone from buying handguns unless they are 21 or older. Under that provision, younger permit holders would still be prohibited from purchasing handguns. But they could borrow handguns, be given them as gifts or inherit them and still be within the law, critics charged.

This is the part I was talking about. From what I'm reading the main law is being ameded, bu this law would still be in place barring them from actually purchasing them. So if I'm reading all of this right, the only thing that would really change is they would actually be able to own and shoot handguns legally at 18 if they were goten as a gift, from say a parent but because of this other law they wouldnt be able to physically purchase them. that is unless this other law goes away to. That was my understading, but I could be wrong




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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-26-2004, 12:40 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ofc.Ponch
The guy that benefits is the 18 year old that moved out of mom and dads house because they are drunks and he wants a better life and like to hunt and wants to be legal.
It benefits by teaching responsibility through detaching us from mom's tit. so to speak
I just think this blows our legislative consitsancy out of the sky here. We base so many things on statistics, and statistically that 18 year old we are talking about may not be the person we want to benefit from this. I'm not saying that there aren't good people that come out of this situation but statistics may not favor it. As far as teaching responsibility I'm not sure we still can't teach responsibility without this legislation.

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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-26-2004, 12:41 PM
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Re: Re: More gun legislation

Quote:
Originally posted by GsxrTony
So if I'm reading all of this right, the only thing that would really change is they would actually be able to own and shoot handguns legally at 18 if they were goten as a gift, from say a parent but because of this other law they wouldnt be able to physically purchase them. that is unless this other law goes away to. That was my understading, but I could be wrong
The loophole Tony is in the wording.

A separate state law bars anyone from buying handguns unless they are 21 or older

Buying being the key word. possesion is not mentioned. A gift is not a bought gun.

I think thats what Crazy is worried about, because the verbage allows someone under 21 but over 18 to be in possesion of a Hangun.

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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-26-2004, 12:45 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ofc.Ponch
Buddy,

The majority of parents lost control of their kids a long time ago already.
We allowed society to get this way, and from the looks of it we'll never get it back to the way it used to be

hmmmmmmm.....not sure that gives us the excuse to further promote this behavior, especially on the issue of something as dangerous as weapons.


Tony...I think we're on the same page but not understanding each other. We should probably re-read each others posts and do the old "Oooooooooooooooooh OK."

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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-26-2004, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Crazy
hmmmmmmm.....not sure that gives us the excuse to further promote this behavior, especially on the issue of something as dangerous as weapons.

I agree,
I wasnt trying to give the impression that I gave up or that I'm promoting anytype of unacceptable behavior.
But I think we need to get back to the old days where when you did something wrong you got punished, not 2 year of probation or just don't let it happen again
If we had kept up with that type of discipline we wouldnt be having this conversation because it would be a mute point

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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-26-2004, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ofc.Ponch
I agree,
I wasnt trying to give the impression that I gave up or that I'm promoting anytype of unacceptable behavior.
But I think we need to get back to the old days where when you did something wrong you got punished, not 2 year of probation or just don't let it happen again
If we had kept up with that type of discipline we wouldnt be having this conversation because it would be a mute point

You have the left wing media to thank for that. Its all the political correctness running amuck.




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