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post #1 of 7 (permalink) Old 07-12-2004, 02:17 PM Thread Starter
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9mm home defense round info

another interesting read.......


9mm Parabellum (9mm Luger,9x19mm, 9mm NATO, or simply "9mm")
This is unquestionably the world's most popular pistol round. For
this reason it has been the subject of a lot of experimentation, because
9mm ball - used by every army in the Western world - is a mediocre
manstopper. Jacketed hollowpoints are a must if one wishes to rely on the
9mm as a defense round. Use ball ammo for practice only.
9mm ammunition is available in two pressure levels: standard and
"+P." The latter should only be used in newer guns (made since 1985 or
so), and is best used sparingly. I will deal here with only commercially
available ammunition: there are specialized loads available only to law
enforcement personnel. Civilians should not worry, as there are
commercial loads as good or better than anything restricted to law
enforcement usage.
I will now tell you the best 9mm Luger load for self-defense: it
is the Cor-Bon 9mm 115 grain +P Jacketed Hollowpoint. This is the most
powerful and street-proven manstopper available in this caliber. It is a
high velocity (1340 fps) and high pressure round, and more effective than
any load restricted to law enforcement use (such as the Federal 9BPLE).
Unfortunately, it is also likely to jam many older guns. For this
reason I add a table at the end of the 9mm section discussing round
suitability for different guns. Modern hollowpoints may either (a) jam,
or (b) be too powerful for some older guns. This load is suitable only
for First Class pistols (see table).
The best standard pressure 9mm load is the Federal 115 grain JHP
(9BP). Its effectiveness and accuracy make it the world standard. Buy
several boxes. Other excellent standard pressure 9mm loads are the
Winchester Silvertip 115 grain (X9MMSHP), Federal 124 grain Hydra-shok
(P9HS1) and Federal Nyclad 124 grain (P9BP) JHP. The Nyclad may feed
better (than the metal-jacketed 9BP) in some older guns - such as
Browning Hi-Powers - which is good enough reason to use it in your older
pistol. It is nearly equal to the excellence of the 9BP in terminal
performance.

For guns that may jam with the Cor-Bon or Federal 115 grain
hollow-points, the Remington 115 grain +P JHP is a good choice (R9MM6).
For older guns I would use the Remington standard pressure 115 gr. JHP
(R9MM1).

Now it is time to impart some crucial information: NEVER use 147
grain ammo in a 9mm pistol! There was a stupid fad for 147 grain
hollowpoints a few years ago, and many were suckered into buying these
weak, worthless and malfunction-prone rounds. I don't care what you've
heard: never use any 9mm hollowpoint heavier than 125 grains. 147 grain
hollowpoints often jam in many popular 9mm guns like the Browning
Hi-Power, SIG, Beretta 92, S&W and Glock. Ignore the gun magazine hype
and stick to what works. If you want to gamble, go to Reno. Don't gamble
with your life. 147 grain ammo sucks.

German GECO "Blitz Action Trauma" or BAT 9mm rounds are a
proven man-stopping design. Called the "GECO Action Safety" in Europe,
this is a high velocity (1400 feet per second) lightweight (86 grain)
hollow bullet that has proven itself to be reliable and successful on the
street. I recommend them, but they are very tough to find. Save yourself
the trouble and use good 115 grain hollowpoints like the Cor-Bon or
Remington +P or Federal 9BP.

Bad 9mm Loads to avoid (and certainly NEVER carry). Numbers given.

Federal Gold Medal 9mm 147 grain JHP (9MS)
Federal Hydra-Shok 9mm 147 grain JHP (P9HS2)
Winchester 147 grain 9mm Silvertip Subsonic JHP (X9MMST147)
Winchester 147 grain 9mm Black Talon JHP (S9MM)
Winchester 147 grain 9mm Super-X Subsonic (XSUB9MM)
Remington 147 grain 9mm JHP (R9MM8)
Remington 147 grain 9mm Golden Saber JHP (GS9MMC)
Remington 140 grain 9mm JHP (R9MM7)
Remington 88 grain 9mm JHP (R9MM5) This bullet is far too light.
CCI Lawman 147 grain 9mm PHP "Plated Hollow Point" (3619)

TABLE OF 9mm PISTOLS

(note: just because your pistol appears in Class 3, say, doesn't mean it
is unreliable: it may indeed feed hollowpoints. But you must fire at
least 200 rounds of your chosen JHP carry load to determine if your
pistol will feed them properly. I have placed pistols in each category
according to reputation and experience. These are only meant as
guidelines - your pistol may feed JHP rounds better - or worse - than
this table indicates)

First Class pistols are ultra-reliable and high-quality new guns than can
feed any hollowpoint and tolerate +P loads with no problems:
SIG/Sauer P220 series. Czech CZ75 and CZ85. Walther P5, P5C, and
P88. Heckler and Koch USP and P7 series. All Glocks. All Ruger 9mm
pistols. Taurus PT-99, PT-92 and PT-92C. Steyr GB. Beretta 92 series.
Browning BDM and Hi-Power (if it says "Portugal" on the slide). All Smith
& Wessons with a four-digit model number (e.g. 5906, 3913, 6904, 5903)
and the Smith & Wesson 900 series. Star M28, M30, M31, and all Firestars,
Megastars, and Ultrastars.

Second Class pistols are high quality guns that may not feed all
hollowpoints reliably. Remington 115 gr. hollowpoints are recommended for
these guns:
Smith & Wessons with two or three digit model numbers (e.g. 659,
39-2, 469, 59, 39). Heckler and Koch VP70 and P9S. Beretta "Brigadier"
M1951 and the Egyptian copy, the Interarms "Helwan." Colt M2000
"All-American" (now discontinued, for good reason), Colt Series 70
Government Model, Series 70 Commander. Astra A-70, A-75 and A-100. AMT
"On Duty." Daewoo. Bersa 'Thunder 9'. EAA Witness, and all other CZ-75
copies (e.g. Tanfoglio, Tanarmi, Springfield Armory P9). Taurus PT-908.
Walther P4. Star BK, BKM, Model B and 'Super.' Browning Hi-Powers
without the word "Portugal" on the slide. Llama Model 82. IMI "Jericho"
and "Kareen."

Third Class pistols should generally be loaded with ball for best
reliability - experiment with your gun extensively before carrying JHP:
Walther P38, P4 or P1. Luger. Llama. Maverick. MKS Model JS.
Intratec CAT-9, DC-9, KG-9, etc. SWD Cobray Model 11/9 and similar
models. Scarab Scorpion. Kimel AP-9. Bryco Jennings Model 59. All KBI
Hungarian pistols (e.g. GKK, PJ9C, P9HK and other "FEG" products).
"Norinco" or "Sportarms" Chinese Tokarev pistols. Lahti. Radom. MAB P15
and Model 1950

Brian (F.K.A. Crazy)

Gamertag: CRAZY403


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post #2 of 7 (permalink) Old 07-12-2004, 02:51 PM
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Nice find Bri!

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post #3 of 7 (permalink) Old 07-12-2004, 02:55 PM
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Hmmm, I'm not too sure on including the Beretta in the 2nd class gun catagory. I have an Elite in the 40 that seems to eat everything I've thrown at it and know others with the Berettas in 9mm that are super reliable. Frankly, that is partially why I went with it. Oh, that and you know who cut me a deal I couldn't walk away from.

Personally, unless you have an older POS lying around I don't see the problem with shooting the P+. It's just expensive and a waste on the range. Even if you have an older one, I'd still shoot a P+ if I'm in a defense mode. A few rounds are not going to mess it up. Oh, I agree on staying away from the 147 grain round. From what I've read, it's less reliable, has more kick and has no greater energy on target.

BTW, did you look at the 40? It was built because of the perceived lack of stopping power of the 9. To me it feels like a cross between the 9 and a 45.

There is nothing firm, nothing balanced, nothing durable in all the universe. Nothing remains in its original state, each day, each hour, each moment, there is change. Change is the essence of life. Embrace change as you do life. To fight change is to live in the past.

Last edited by Blade Runner; 07-12-2004 at 03:00 PM.
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post #4 of 7 (permalink) Old 07-12-2004, 02:57 PM
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At best this is an average write up. There is no BEST load for all firearms and the truth be told all firearms regardless if they are the same make and model will function diffrently with the same ammo. That is like saying EVERY 2004 corvette runs the same, it just isnt so.

Instead of telling you what the auther thinks what works best or doesnt he should be explaining WHY they are good choices or beter choices.

I will 1st agree that no 147gr bullet is good.............. The diffrence between me and the author is i will tell you why.
9mm barrels are not designed with the proper twist rate to handle anything abouve 127gr. Although function may be there you willsuffer accuracy issues to some extent with the heavier ammo. You choose, heavier bullet with a drop in accuracy or proper bullet weight, less ouch but supreme accuracy. THE CHOICE IS YOUR TO MAKE NOT SOME AUTHORS.

When it comes to ball ammo the reason it is not the best DEFENSIVE ammo is because it has the best penetration. When we say someting is a man stopper we are talking about the amount of damage it causes when it comes in contact with a body, the Cor-Bon load he is talking about IS a very devestating round if there are no obstackles in the way of the bullet, IE a glass, doors, drywall or even thick clothes. These rounds are designed to offer extreme expansion on contact, thus the 1st thing they hit will absorb all its power. If someone is wearing a T-Shirt on a hot day and get nailed with a corbon plan on picking up a dead body, if this was a chicago winter you may find yourself being fired back at by a wounded person. There is no universal round for every situation and for someone to write an article like this to me is pretty insulting.

I can comment all day long on fact but I wont, if you'd like more info please PM me and I'll be more than happy to help.




AND BE CAREFUL with some of the +P ammo thats out there. It in fact is designed to cycle Sub-Machine guns, thats why its +P. In some firearms it could cause extreme damage to the gun and the user!

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post #5 of 7 (permalink) Old 07-12-2004, 03:09 PM
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UGHHHH....................

I have to continue..................

About feeding. When it comes to feeding and fuction we have to look at a few factors.
1) Feed Ramp a) Style b) angle
2) Ammo type a) ball b) hollow point
3) Chamber

The chamber is NOT the most critical so i may not discuss it,
When it comes to feed ramp there are two types, ramped and non ramped. Non ramped are almost garbage disposal like. They are more forgiving in ammo digestion than ramped. You Beretta owners have non ramped barrels.

Ramped barrels have very aggressive angles on them but have more "support" for the case, this is VERY CRITICAL when it comes to higher pressure rounds. Tonight when I get home I'll be taking several pics to show you guys the diffrence. I'm at work now and...... wouldnt you know it, have none of my guns here.

If I'd be wasting my time let me know. But if you'd like the info please let me know.

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Last edited by Ofc. Ponch; 07-12-2004 at 03:14 PM.
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post #6 of 7 (permalink) Old 07-12-2004, 03:12 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ofc.Ponch

If I'd be wasting my time let me know. But if you'd like the info please let me know.
See why this stuff is interesting reading. I knew Ponch wouldn't be able to resist tearing it up.

Brian (F.K.A. Crazy)

Gamertag: CRAZY403


“You can’t escape the responsibility of tomorrow by evading it today.”

-Abraham Lincoln


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post #7 of 7 (permalink) Old 07-17-2004, 08:29 PM
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Corbon is what I have waiting for a would br intruder. Alwasy have a few clips of it laying around




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