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post #1 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-17-2004, 06:03 PM Thread Starter
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whats the effect of the gun ban expiring

Believe it or not I have not studied this that much and I'm sure someone like Ponch knows a hell of a lot more about this.

When the gun ban expires in a couple months what will the effect be for all the "pre ban" guns? are they suddenly legal for any law abiding citizen to own again, can I go out and build a colt ar-15 with out worry about the parts I'm using s long as it stays semi auto? so what's the deal?




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post #2 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-17-2004, 08:58 PM
 
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Yes and yes

After the AWB sunsets in Sept. it will be as though it never existed. High cap mags can once again be termed "regular capacity", LEO only mags should be legal for anyone to purchase,

Aside from magazines, the AWB only refers to cosmetic features. Pistol grip, flash supressor, bayonet lug, folding stocks.

Oh, and hopefully the prices on regular capacity magazines will drop to ten round prices. Please, please, please.

Check out www.AWBansunset.com for info, or www.packing.org for some discussion on this topic.

--How on earth can a 5.56 be considered a "high powered rifle", it's a varmint round!

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post #3 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-17-2004, 09:13 PM
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On the federal level,
There will be no effect on pre-ban other then the price will drop, you can buy one just like aways, But know you can get the same rifle new, or but "evil features on Post ban

You will be able to purchase ar15 with all the "evil features" such as threaded barrel, bayonet lug, grenade launcher.
You will be able to buy ar15 lowers as you can now, the AWB doesn't affect them. The uppers and the stock will be different and you will be able to get standard capacity magazines (hi-cap) new

you will also be able to get the following weapons that are not banned by prior laws. But you legaly can get copies of these know anyways

(i) Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat Kalashnikovs (all models);
(ii) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil;
(iii) Beretta Ar70 (SC-70);
(iv) Colt AR-15;
(v) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, and FNC;
(vi) SWD M-10, M-11, M-11/9, and M-12;
(vii) Steyr AUG;
(viii)INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9 and TEC-22; and
(ix) revolving cylinder shotguns, such as (or similar to) the Street Sweeper and Striker 12;

even if the AWB sunset, read you local laws. they will probably not change and the above may still be illegal

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post #4 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-19-2004, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ducman


You will be able to purchase ar15 with all the "evil features" such as threaded barrel, bayonet lug, grenade launcher.


you will also be able to get the following weapons that are not banned by prior laws. But you legaly can get copies of these know anyways

(i) Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat Kalashnikovs (all models);
(ii) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil;
(iii) Beretta Ar70 (SC-70);
(iv) Colt AR-15;
(v) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, and FNC;
(vi) SWD M-10, M-11, M-11/9, and M-12;
(vii) Steyr AUG;
(viii)INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9 and TEC-22; and
(ix) revolving cylinder shotguns, such as (or similar to) the Street Sweeper and Striker 12;

even if the AWB sunset, read you local laws. they will probably not change and the above may still be illegal
In regards to the grenade launcher, that you will still not be able to get as it falls under Destructive Device and not legal in this state since Illinois does not support registration of D.D's. Also M203's ( the model # designation of the grenande launcher) has not been available for civilian consumption in some years. Theer are many registered ones out there though for sale and in you live in lets say, Indiana can be purchased for a mere $4,000+. Also don't forget to add all your tax stamps and transfere fees to that figure.


In the 2nd part I did'nt understand if you meant you can buy a Norinco AK or a Beretta AR70 after the sunset. If thats what you mean the answer is NO.

With the exception on # IV and #VIII, all the other guns will still not be legal to buy because they are banned by the 1989 Imporrtation Ban who G. Bush Sr. signed. This law states that any Assault rifle mfg. has to have at least 50% or 10 of the main parts wich comprise it to be of U.S. mfg. Thus a real HK 91 will never come into this country again or SP89, IMI Uzi.... there all gone. Now that means that any of these in the country prior to the ban of 89' are grandfathered in under this law. HK 91 will run you between $1500-$2500 depending on condition. A CLONE will run under $1000. A clone may have some parts from the original gun but again 50% or 10 of the main parts will be of US MFG and you will have a bastard gun r an all US made copy.

# iX refers to street sweeper.................... NO WAY YOU'LL GET ONE OF THESE! They were relabeled as D.D.'s in the mid 80's and thus need be registered. Not only that they are "junk guns" very cheaply made but without a doubt very fin to shoot. You can pick one up across the border on the right form for about $1200.



In a nut shell all the sunset will do as some of the guys above stated is allow unlimited capacity to magazines and let you have some cosmetic features back to your gun. Prices on what would be know as Grandfathered guns would stabalize, yet a quality AR will run you $800+

If the ban expires here's what you get..................

Ammunition Magazines
1) no restrictions to the amount they may hold

Assault rifles
1) the ability to configure any rifle with any amount of the following features.
a) Bayonet lug
b) Pistol Grip
c) detachable ammunition magazine
d) retractable stock
e) threaded barrel (also know as flash hider but in fact it's the threads that were banned)

Shotguns
1) the ability to configure any shotgun with any amount of the following features.
a) semi-auto
b) pistol grip
c) retractable stock
d) a magazine able to accept more than 5 rounds

Many people don't know that the AWB affected shotgun configurations as well.

Hope this helps.

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post #5 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-19-2004, 09:53 AM
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What will it do?
It will add yet another debate item to the elections.
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post #6 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-19-2004, 09:55 AM
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post #7 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-19-2004, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ofc.Ponch
In regards to the grenade launcher, that you will still not be able to get as it falls under Destructive Device and not legal in this state since Illinois does not support registration of D.D's. Also M203's ( the model # designation of the grenande launcher) has not been available for civilian consumption in some years. Theer are many registered ones out there though for sale and in you live in lets say, Indiana can be purchased for a mere $4,000+. Also don't forget to add all your tax stamps and transfere fees to that figure
Adding a launcher to a assault weapon would be illegal, even with the tax stamp, now it will not be, with the tax stamp, outside of IL


Quote:
In the 2nd part I did'nt understand if you meant you can buy a Norinco AK or a Beretta AR70 after the sunset. If thats what you mean the answer is NO.

With the exception on # IV and #VIII, all the other guns will still not be legal to buy because they are banned by the 1989 Imporrtation Ban who G. Bush Sr. signed. This law states that any Assault rifle mfg. has to have at least 50% or 10 of the main parts wich comprise it to be of U.S. mfg. Thus a real HK 91 will never come into this country again or SP89, IMI Uzi.... there all gone. Now that means that any of these in the country prior to the ban of 89' are grandfathered in under this law. HK 91 will run you between $1500-$2500 depending on condition. A CLONE will run under $1000. A clone may have some parts from the original gun but again 50% or 10 of the main parts will be of US MFG and you will have a bastard gun r an all US made copy.

# iX refers to street sweeper.................... NO WAY YOU'LL GET ONE OF THESE! They were relabeled as D.D.'s in the mid 80's and thus need be registered. Not only that they are "junk guns" very cheaply made but without a doubt very fin to shoot. You can pick one up across the border on the right form for about $1200.
Regarding the above, thats why I said you could buy guns that were not previously banned by other laws. It wasn't to say that they would be available, but to say the law was redundant because they weapons are previously banned, but the liberal believe that the streets will be flooded with them.

I'm happy you picked up on it

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post #8 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-20-2004, 08:11 AM Thread Starter
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Ya no kidding, from the way the media talks about this you would think the flood gates are opening at the maufacturers and they are loading up trucks of M-16s to drop off at schools.




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post #9 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-20-2004, 10:08 AM
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Interesting, I heard on the news last night that Bush would sign the gun ban if it made it to his desk, but that the rest of the Republican lawmakers are preventing that from happening. So he get to sound like the "good" guy banning those nasty assault weapons while the party puts them back on the street. Don't you love politics?

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post #10 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-20-2004, 10:14 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by Blade Runner
Interesting, I heard on the news last night that Bush would sign the gun ban if it made it to his desk, but that the rest of the Republican lawmakers are preventing that from happening. So he get to sound like the "good" guy banning those nasty assault weapons while the party puts them back on the street. Don't you love politics?
No kidding, its an election year and this comes up. although that is masterfull, he can say that and wont get slaughtered by the anti gun nuts, while tellin his guys, this better not hit my desk

But if this is gonna get to be a political arguement, we should start another thread in the polotics forum, I was just asking about the specifics of the ban here.




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post #11 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-20-2004, 11:55 AM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ducman
[B]Adding a launcher to a assault weapon would be illegal, even with the tax stamp, now it will not be, with the tax stamp, outside of IL

I gotta look that up, I'm pretty sure that even with the ban you can configure an AW with a M203 and still be in compliance with the law. I gotta look that one up in the bible....I'm not to hip on the DD laws

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post #12 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-20-2004, 05:33 PM
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M29) Are grenade and rocket launcher attachments destructive devices?

Grenade and rocket launcher attachments for use on military type rifles generally do not come within the definition of destructive devices. However, the grenades and rockets used in these devices are generally within the definition. [26 U. S. C. 5845, 27 CFR 179.11]

The launcher is not a Destructive device but the grenade is

But the launcher is specifically named in the AWB

The launcher could fall under AOW

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post #13 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-21-2004, 06:48 AM
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Ok...coming from a dumb Canadian with two gun safes, filled, why in the hell would you want a freaking grenade launcher? I love to shoot, but have basically given up pistol and rifle shooting, because of people showing up at ranges, with crap like that I love the freedom of this country, but sometimes you wonder why the AWB doesn't cover all weapons......cause if anyone showed up at a range with a freaking grenade launcher, I would split, really quick. Only the military needs freaking grenade launchers, I'll probably catch alot of flak for this one, but if people used some common sense, you wouldn't of had a AWB in the first place.

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post #14 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-21-2004, 08:05 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by RickC1957
Ok...coming from a dumb Canadian with two gun safes, filled, why in the hell would you want a freaking grenade launcher? I love to shoot, but have basically given up pistol and rifle shooting, because of people showing up at ranges, with crap like that I love the freedom of this country, but sometimes you wonder why the AWB doesn't cover all weapons......cause if anyone showed up at a range with a freaking grenade launcher, I would split, really quick. Only the military needs freaking grenade launchers, I'll probably catch alot of flak for this one, but if people used some common sense, you wouldn't of had a AWB in the first place.
What if the military decides your the enemy? Then youll want one




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post #15 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-21-2004, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by RickC1957
Ok...coming from a dumb Canadian with two gun safes, filled, why in the hell would you want a freaking grenade launcher? I love to shoot, but have basically given up pistol and rifle shooting, because of people showing up at ranges, with crap like that I love the freedom of this country, but sometimes you wonder why the AWB doesn't cover all weapons......cause if anyone showed up at a range with a freaking grenade launcher, I would split, really quick. Only the military needs freaking grenade launchers, I'll probably catch alot of flak for this one, but if people used some common sense, you wouldn't of had a AWB in the first place.

Dumb canadian.. isn't that as oxymoron, just kidding

Whats wrong with having a grenade launcher, if you use it in a responsible nature. My rights should not be restricted because someone, somewhere might act irresponsibly

Object don't control people, we control them, But liberal think that as soon as I have a full auto I'm going to go kill a bunch of school kids.

Also when you start banning one weapon, soon others are to follow.
They already got the "scary" ones, your are next

And as Tony said you need to be able to protect yourself and overthrow an out of control government if needed

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post #16 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-21-2004, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ducman
Whats wrong with having a grenade launcher, if you use it in a responsible nature.

I think this should be quote of the week.

I'm all for the 2nd amendment, but I doubt the authors indended the average citizen to have a M203 40mm GRENADE LAUNCHER.

Please tell me why the hell someone needs a grenade launcher. (I'm former army and have used M203's often)

"Well, I was out huntin' in dem dar woods, and dis wild boar dun come afta meh. Good tin I had meh trusty grenade luncha, cuz I dun tink meh shotgun woulda stop 'em."

BTW, Kelly, Ken, Tony, are there commercially available shells for a 40mm launcher?

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post #17 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-21-2004, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chills
I think this should be quote of the week.

I'm all for the 2nd amendment, but I doubt the authors indended the average citizen to have a M203 40mm GRENADE LAUNCHER.

Please tell me why the hell someone needs a grenade launcher. (I'm former army and have used M203's often)

"Well, I was out huntin' in dem dar woods, and dis wild boar dun come afta meh. Good tin I had meh trusty grenade luncha, cuz I dun tink meh shotgun woulda stop 'em."

BTW, Kelly, Ken, Tony, are there commercially available shells for a 40mm launcher?
The 2nd amend. has to do with protecting yourself from the government, nothing to do with hunting.
So the M203, full auto, assault weapons is exactly what the authors had in mine. having the tools to suppress an out of control government and the ability to protect and defend our land

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post #18 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-21-2004, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ducman
The 2nd amend. has to do with protecting yourself from the government, nothing to do with hunting.
So the M203, full auto, assault weapons is exactly what the authors had in mine. having the tools to suppress an out of control government and the ability to protect and defend our land
I do believe that the 2nd amendment was actually written because the US had a very small standing army and was at constant risk of being invaded by the British. If everyone was armed than it would be easier to call up militias for the defense of the nation.

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post #19 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-21-2004, 09:54 AM
 
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Jefferson was ardent about protecting oneself from a tyrannical government. However, realistically an M203 should not be allowed for the public.

A M1 Abrams is a weapon, and it is quite effective at it's job. What you are saying, is that it should be allowed to the public. Why? Defense, of course. Perhaps the crop duster pilot wants a F-18 just to make sure big brother doesn't try something. Should it be given to him? Can we trust people with these weapons? Absolutely not. You are taking the risk of a "shoot up" to a completely bigger, more dangerous level.
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post #20 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-21-2004, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by HDTony
No kidding, its an election year and this comes up. although that is masterfull, he can say that and wont get slaughtered by the anti gun nuts, while tellin his guys, this better not hit my desk

But if this is gonna get to be a political arguement, we should start another thread in the polotics forum, I was just asking about the specifics of the ban here.
No no no, I didn't want to go political. I thought it was smart politicing and funny. I thought you would get a kick out of it. I'm not going after George on this one at all.

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post #21 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-21-2004, 10:48 AM
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ahh other then explaining myself yes i have shot a good amount, of the M203 40mm as far as civilain use, you can not buy them,
there is another 1 is legal to own at the moment but i wont go into that.

also too, anyone who has a prebanned launcher has to maual load them from a press.



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post #22 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-21-2004, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Honda4Ever
Jefferson was ardent about protecting oneself from a tyrannical government. However, realistically an M203 should not be allowed for the public.

A M1 Abrams is a weapon, and it is quite effective at it's job. What you are saying, is that it should be allowed to the public. Why? Defense, of course. Perhaps the crop duster pilot wants a F-18 just to make sure big brother doesn't try something. Should it be given to him? Can we trust people with these weapons? Absolutely not. You are taking the risk of a "shoot up" to a completely bigger, more dangerous level.
The 2nd amend doesn't say weapons, its says arms

But why can't we trust people with a tank or fighter, there are people that own them now.

The object don't make the people dangerous, the person's actions do.

I'm all for background checks and refusals to criminals,drug users and people of question character, because they have proven in the past they can not be trusted to follow the law. I believe the laws should be stricter to who can get weapons, not what weapons

You say tanks are dangeous, I say sportbikes are dangerous. more people are killed by bikes then citizens with tanks per capita.
I say, if you can not show you are profiecent with a sportbike and be able to turn expert times on a track, then they are to dangerous to own

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post #23 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-21-2004, 01:40 PM Thread Starter
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Exactly You should be able to own anything you want. Go watch the movie Red Dawn, then youll want Guns, My guns are to protect my family from all intruders, even if its a tyranical military. I have a right to protect my property, If I choose to do it with a Sherman tank and a bradlley fighting vehicle that should be my choice, and no I'm not being sarcastic.




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post #24 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-21-2004, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chills
I think this should be quote of the week.

I'm all for the 2nd amendment, but I doubt the authors indended the average citizen to have a M203 40mm GRENADE LAUNCHER.

Please tell me why the hell someone needs a grenade launcher. (I'm former army and have used M203's often)

"Well, I was out huntin' in dem dar woods, and dis wild boar dun come afta meh. Good tin I had meh trusty grenade luncha, cuz I dun tink meh shotgun woulda stop 'em."

BTW, Kelly, Ken, Tony, are there commercially available shells for a 40mm launcher?
Who intended there to be production motorcycles capable of going 3 times the legal speed limit, why stop at the M203. Lets just ban everything someone doesnt agree with. I say any bike that goes over 85MPH should be banned!

As far as 40mm shells..............they are out there.

It seems we get on this topice every time.......Why should we this and why have that..... The simple answer is because. And if you are a responsible citizen you should be able to have ANYTHING you want. Let me take your 1000 away chills........... bet you'd have a real problem with that!

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post #25 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-21-2004, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ducman

The launcher is not a Destructive device but the grenade is

The launcher itself is a DD. It is in the bible by criteria not by name. The AWB is weak in comparison to the GCA of 1968. Trust me the launcher is in itself a DD.

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post #26 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-21-2004, 05:20 PM
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"Exactly You should be able to own anything you want. Go watch the movie Red Dawn, then youll want Guns"

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That's the first time I've ever heard the "Red Dawn Defense". Nice work...

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post #27 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-21-2004, 06:25 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by Underdog
"Exactly You should be able to own anything you want. Go watch the movie Red Dawn, then youll want Guns"

Wolverine!!

That's the first time I've ever heard the "Red Dawn Defense". Nice work...

Hahahah I grew upon that movie, Used to watch it all the time, I still got the video sittin here.




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post #28 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-21-2004, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ofc.Ponch
The launcher itself is a DD. It is in the bible by criteria not by name. The AWB is weak in comparison to the GCA of 1968. Trust me the launcher is in itself a DD.
Yep your right, funny how the quote I pulled of the ATF web says it is not
But the GCA of '68 says it is

B) any type of weapon (other than a shotgun or a shotgun shell which

the Secretary finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable

for sporting purposes) by whatever name known which will, or which may

be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an

explosive or other propellant, and which has any barrel with a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter; and

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post #29 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-22-2004, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ducman
Yep your right, funny how the quote I pulled of the ATF web says it is not
But the GCA of '68 says it is

B) any type of weapon (other than a shotgun or a shotgun shell which

the Secretary finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable

for sporting purposes) by whatever name known which will, or which may

be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an

explosive or other propellant, and which has any barrel with a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter; and

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post #30 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-22-2004, 01:25 PM Thread Starter
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Greande launchers canbe used for sporting purposes. Some of those damn pheasants just wont fly and if they wont I'll make em fly




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Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.

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