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post #1 of 37 (permalink) Old 11-11-2008, 12:54 PM Thread Starter
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New .308 Rifle Recommendations

Alright gang, need some feedback. Though a special arrangement with my local shop, I can now purchase one firearm of my choice, at their distributor cost. I want to secure a .308 rifle, which will fulfill my longer-range shooting purposes. The three rifles I'm currently considering are:

1. Springfield Armory M1A
2. PTR-91
3. DSA SA58

I want this primarily for long range target shooting. My budget, which I hope will include a bipod and a few extra mags, is around $1500. Can I please get feedback on pros and cons of the above three rifles, and/or any other comparable alternatives that you might recommend?

FYI, I already have an AR, which is why I do not have one listed. I'd like something different to add to the collection.

Also, feel free to take into account the new political regieme when offering comments and suggestions. Thanks!
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post #2 of 37 (permalink) Old 11-11-2008, 01:12 PM
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Man, three really tough choices!!

Because I am an HK nut I will vote for the PTR-91 in the MSG 91 trim. Comes with a Bi Pod, weld scope mount, and fluted 18" barrel . For all other 91's you'll need to purchase a claw mount for the scope which messes up the finish on the receiver (bad too, not just a couple little scratches). The other advantage of the 91 series is really, really cheap mags. You'll pay about $5 for a NIW aluminum magazine and about $10 for a steel mag.

PTR purchased the original tooling from FMP which was a Portuguese sub contractor for HK. In the beginning JLD was supplying the parts, etc. and there were some quality issues (soft trunnions -shrinking bolt gap- and worn out trigger groups from POF). All those issues have been resolved. So essentially, you are getting as close to an HK91 as possible without violating 922r. Which brings up a good point: if you choose to do any upgrades on any rifle you need to watch the US parts count. It needs to have a minimum of 4 US made parts to be compliant with 922r unless it's an NFA item (SBR or machine gun). You also can get around 922r by purchasing it as a pistol (reason why all my HK clone stuff is in a pistol form).

Damn, I just convined myself to add the MSG 91 to my possible trade list for my Sig!! lol.

Last edited by JPKII; 11-11-2008 at 01:27 PM.
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post #3 of 37 (permalink) Old 11-11-2008, 01:13 PM
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post #4 of 37 (permalink) Old 11-11-2008, 01:40 PM
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M1a, preferably in M24 trim.

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post #5 of 37 (permalink) Old 11-11-2008, 02:20 PM
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I've always had a boner for the M1 SOCOM by SA. Any SA M1A will do you good though.

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post #6 of 37 (permalink) Old 11-11-2008, 02:35 PM
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I've always had a boner for the M1 SOCOM by SA. Any SA M1A will do you good though.

It looks neat but I did not like the feel when I was playing with one it felt cheap.

The other two are FN-FAL derivatives they look like. I took a gold in the schutzenschur in Europe and you hit what you aim at it is just heavy.

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post #7 of 37 (permalink) Old 11-11-2008, 02:51 PM Thread Starter
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It looks neat but I did not like the feel when I was playing with one it felt cheap.

The other two are FN-FAL derivatives they look like. I took a gold in the schutzenschur in Europe and you hit what you aim at it is just heavy.
The SA58 is a FAL derivative. The PTR 91 is based off of the H&K G3.
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post #8 of 37 (permalink) Old 11-11-2008, 02:55 PM
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The SA58 is a FAL derivative. The PTR 91 is based off of the H&K G3.
The G3 that is what I shot. Not too bad just needed a bit more fit and finish but it was Army issue. Would not want to hump it.

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post #9 of 37 (permalink) Old 11-11-2008, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
It looks neat but I did not like the feel when I was playing with one it felt cheap.

The other two are FN-FAL derivatives they look like. I took a gold in the schutzenschur in Europe and you hit what you aim at it is just heavy.
The FN FAL and HK91 use two different operating systems. FN is gas, HK is delayed inertia. Big difference in cleaning and parts count. The FN is piston driven so you don't have the fowling concerns that the DI stuff does but from the little bit of reading I have done the FNs seems to need fiddling with the gas adjustment system depending on round of choice. That shouldn't be a concern. The FN will have less felt recoil than the HK though. FNs are not known for their accuracy. FNs also have a high parts count requiring armorers tools. The HK needs only roll pin punches and you can strip the hole thing down.

Last edited by JPKII; 11-11-2008 at 02:58 PM.
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post #10 of 37 (permalink) Old 11-11-2008, 10:05 PM
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IMO, S.A. M1A. I'm still waiting for mine (passed on).
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post #11 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-13-2009, 06:46 PM
 
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Quote:
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The SA58 is a FAL derivative. The PTR 91 is based off of the H&K G3.
This explains why it looked so familiar, it's a G3 dirivative, and also explains why the stock looked like a quickly detachable L thing that was basically just a wire with not much too it so it was like a G3 with no buttstock. sucks about needing to mar the finish to mount a scope though.
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post #12 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-13-2009, 07:05 PM
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For some reason I really want an AR-10

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post #13 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-13-2009, 07:10 PM
 
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For some reason I really want an AR-10
I was looking at the RRA LAR8's online too, and hoping they'd have an ar 10 in stock. they said the last ar15 they sold was under a thousand, but didn't have any in stock. He also didn't think there was any need to worry about a ban anytime soon, but I don't think he's been bored recently.
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post #14 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-14-2009, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bek View Post
I want to secure a .308 rifle, which will fulfill my longer-range shooting purposes.
Based on the 3 you listed you have only one choice, that's the M1a

The PTR is an HK 91 clone. Battle rifle, not long range

the DSA is an FM clone. Again battle rifle

The M1A in the loaded and above catagory is your only choice. Didnt you already pick one up?

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post #15 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-14-2009, 08:30 AM
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HK is delayed inertia.
Incorrect

delayed roller blowback

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post #16 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-14-2009, 08:31 AM
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For some reason I really want an AR-10

better choice if you need a semi

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post #17 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-14-2009, 08:33 AM
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?????????

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post #18 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-14-2009, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Bek View Post
I want to secure a .308 rifle, which will fulfill my longer-range shooting purposes.
If you want to stop playing get a Remington 700 5R

That's about the best you can get in that price range

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post #19 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-14-2009, 08:49 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ofc.Ponch View Post
Based on the 3 you listed you have only one choice, that's the M1a

The PTR is an HK 91 clone. Battle rifle, not long range

the DSA is an FM clone. Again battle rifle

The M1A in the loaded and above catagory is your only choice. Didnt you already pick one up?
I posted this thread first, when I was trying to decide what I wanted. Then a few days later, I locked in the M1A. These are old threads back from November.
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post #20 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-14-2009, 08:55 AM
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wow, some one brought this back to life yesterday.

Yo made thge right choice and got a great deal

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post #21 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-14-2009, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
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Incorrect

delayed roller blowback
Umm, that's the same thing
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post #22 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-14-2009, 09:15 AM
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Umm, that's the same thing
oh boy, now you did it!



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post #23 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-14-2009, 09:25 AM
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Yes, the HK/CETME buzz word is delayed roller blowback but it operates on inertia.
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post #24 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-14-2009, 09:27 AM
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Negative.

inertia requires the rear movement of the weapon, thus if you put a Benelli ( inertia driven) against a solid obeject and pull the trigger teh gun will fire one round and then fail.

If you put an HK against a solid object you could pull the trigger till the mag is empty.

HK & clones use flutes cut into teh chamber to control the bolt unlocking by dealying the GAS pressure. If it were an inertia based system the gas would have no effect.

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post #25 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-14-2009, 09:38 AM
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I think the confusuion / diffrence in opinion is in the fact that the HK uses a roller locking bolt that "locks" into place and uses the least amount of energy needed to start the rollers to compress and unlock. After thathe delayed gas takes over. In a benelli, the system needs great amount of rearward momentum to unlock.

the HK can get away withthe normal " flex" to get the roller ball ( pun inteneded) rolloing as where the Benelli will fail.

the reason I say it is not true inertia is the fact that gas is needed. true inertia it is not

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post #26 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-14-2009, 09:40 AM
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I think the confusuion / diffrence in opinion is in the fact that the HK uses a roller locking bolt that "locks" into place and uses the least amount of energy needed to start the rollers to compress and unlock. After thathe delayed gas takes over. In a benelli, the system needs great amount of rearward momentum to unlock.

the HK can get away withthe normal " flex" to get the roller ball ( pun inteneded) rolloing as where the Benelli will fail.

the reason I say it is not true inertia is the fact that gas is needed. true inertia it is not
give that man a cigar!





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post #27 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-14-2009, 10:27 AM
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Sorry that is incorrect. The reason the chambers are fluted 80% on Vorgrimmler actions is to allow for ejection of the spent case. The other 20% is used to seal the chamber. If it was not for this fluting the rim of the case would be torn off in the ejection process. This does not aid in unlocking the bolt. Unlocking the bolt comes the the blow back impulse (re: no gas involved) moving the bolt carrier to the rear far enough to overcome the force of the locking lever and allowing the rollers to ride down on the locking piece.

I agree that calling it delayed interia was a weird way to call it but the action does rely on inertia of the action to cycle.
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post #29 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-14-2009, 10:30 AM
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sweet Jesus this is bigger than Roe v. Wade !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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