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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 11-23-2008, 07:26 PM Thread Starter
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continuing with a movement.

im not sure so I wanted to see your input.

Another CCW denied illionanist had proposed that when possible to always wear his holster, I think when I am not working I will be wearing my holster, (without sidearm) wherever I go, I figure it would be a good conversation piece and plus if something ever goes down I will be first in line to talk to the reporters to show an empty holster and a situation that could have been avoided.

What are your thoughts?





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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 11-23-2008, 07:29 PM
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I think that particular holster would have made for a very easy gun theft off your person (had you been carrying one).

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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 11-23-2008, 08:32 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arch View Post
I think that particular holster would have made for a very easy gun theft off your person (had you been carrying one).


Its a Galco CCW holster, If the opponent knows you have a sidearm, by that point he already has his hands in the air or flat on the ground.

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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 11-23-2008, 09:11 PM
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i am gonna try to not come off as arrogant or mr. know it all. but let me say if IL ever gets permission for CCW even with some or a lot of training for those that carry. i plan to move to another state that has had this law into affect longer as they are more aware that CCW is for a reason, not a fashion statement or pampas bragging on line.

the level of defense for the means of protecting ones self with deadly force is not a joke and the responsibility should never be taking lightly.



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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 11-23-2008, 09:12 PM
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i am gonna try to not come off as arrogant or mr. know it all. but let me say if IL ever gets permission for CCW even with some or a lot of training for those that carry. i plan to move to another state that has had this law into affect longer as they are more aware that CCW is for a reason, not a fashion statement or pampas bragging on line.

the level of defense for the means of protecting ones self with deadly force is not a joke and the responsibility should never be taking lightly.
p.s. NEVER wear a holster if you dont have a gun in it!



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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 11-23-2008, 09:30 PM
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i am gonna try to not come off as arrogant or mr. know it all. but let me say if IL ever gets permission for CCW even with some or a lot of training for those that carry. i plan to move to another state that has had this law into affect longer as they are more aware that CCW is for a reason, not a fashion statement or pampas bragging on line.

the level of defense for the means of protecting ones self with deadly force is not a joke and the responsibility should never be taking lightly.
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p.s. NEVER wear a holster if you dont have a gun in it!


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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 11-23-2008, 09:49 PM
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and before this thread gets twisted into a flame war, which i hope not! cause it can turn into a good discussion IF it was granted and maybe the focus it deserves, the training it requires to be greatly used as a valued tool. "not a toy or bling wear"

rick, please don't think i am picking on you. in general a lot of people just dont get the VERY high level of responsibility. i have been through 1000's of hours of types of different training.

having knowledge about many different areas makes me scared for my own safety. not in the means of i cant see something coming, not that i cant set myself up for a tactical advantage and bla bla bla, IF something was to happen.

but just imagine we all got big mouth on here, and like to talk and share and those that like to brag and bitch and cant even control themselves when someone calls them out for acting silly. let alone doing that in person and everyone is armed? not to mention everyone possibility of being armed.


lets just use our bike nights? i can see people shooting them self's in the foot, dropping guns left and right, playing lets snag someones gun cause they think its funny from there weighs line, etc.

funny, scary, etc all in one to some.

ME? ill be in the furthest corner from you all protecting my self from a A.D. from you guys or whom ever else is there or not go anymore cause a lot of people just are not ready for it.

if it was to be granted i really hope it would be a HIGHER level of training then whats already out there for other states. we in IL have a LOT of catching up to do.

once again, i hope i worded this right to show i am not trying to be a bad ass but show what might be wrong with something like this IF they dont require a higher level of training for CCW then others states. IF we are granted i swear youll see a lot of tips and information coming from me and lessons of another kind. but till then.

anyone who owns a gun and is gonna use for the most common...hunting and protection. please get yourself a head start of as much info into any area that pertains.

if our civilian rights get taken away? well thats another story.

till then be a master at a tool you use which this tool is only as good or bad as the user which can result in death from just 1 over sight.

all it takes is 1 discharge and it can change the world!

thats being said i am ALL FOR CCW!!!




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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 11-23-2008, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FiReBReTHa View Post
Its a Galco CCW holster, If the opponent knows you have a sidearm, by that point he already has his hands in the air or flat on the ground.
Having a gun on your person doesn't automatically mean you're going to win. All it means is that a lethal weapon gets injected into the situation by someone. What happens after that point depends on who's more in the know about what they are doing.

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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 11-23-2008, 09:55 PM
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Having a gun on your person doesn't automatically mean you're going to win. All it means is that a lethal weapon gets injected into the situation by someone. What happens after that point depends on who's more in the know about what they are doing.







EVERYTHING!!!!!!!



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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 11-23-2008, 10:10 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Odysseys View Post
and before this thread gets twisted into a flame war, which i hope not! cause it can turn into a good discussion IF it was granted and maybe the focus it deserves, the training it requires to be greatly used as a valued tool. "not a toy or bling wear"

rick, please don't think i am picking on you. in general a lot of people just dont get the VERY high level of responsibility. i have been through 1000's of hours of types of different training.

having knowledge about many different areas makes me scared for my own safety. not in the means of i cant see something coming, not that i cant set myself up for a tactical advantage and bla bla bla, IF something was to happen.

but just imagine we all got big mouth on here, and like to talk and share and those that like to brag and bitch and cant even control themselves when someone calls them out for acting silly. let alone doing that in person and everyone is armed? not to mention everyone possibility of being armed.


lets just use our bike nights? i can see people shooting them self's in the foot, dropping guns left and right, playing lets snag someones gun cause they think its funny from there weighs line, etc.

funny, scary, etc all in one to some.

ME? ill be in the furthest corner from you all protecting my self from a A.D. from you guys or whom ever else is there or not go anymore cause a lot of people just are not ready for it.

if it was to be granted i really hope it would be a HIGHER level of training then whats already out there for other states. we in IL have a LOT of catching up to do.

once again, i hope i worded this right to show i am not trying to be a bad ass but show what might be wrong with something like this IF they dont require a higher level of training for CCW then others states. IF we are granted i swear youll see a lot of tips and information coming from me and lessons of another kind. but till then.

anyone who owns a gun and is gonna use for the most common...hunting and protection. please get yourself a head start of as much info into any area that pertains.

if our civilian rights get taken away? well thats another story.

till then be a master at a tool you use which this tool is only as good or bad as the user which can result in death from just 1 over sight.

all it takes is 1 discharge and it can change the world!

thats being said i am ALL FOR CCW!!!


I completely agree with the amount of training required and can only hop that if IL ever DID get CCW the training required would be extensive.

AD does frighten me with a bunch of nutz. Hell I remember the vid of the cop showing off with finger on trigger with a chambered round in a room full of kids.


I hope with the clarification below its understood that my intentions are merely public awareness so that the public can recognize that those people around you are the same people who would fight to protect you. I would pray for those ladies in lane bryant to have a sheepdog next to them when that piece of trash came in.

I believe in the sheep, wolves and sheepdog 'belief'

I just hate the stereotype that everyone that believes in CCW is a dumb redneck or something.

I just want to do what I can to try to help those that try to do what they can to help all, I feel thru awareness is one step.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arch View Post
Having a gun on your person doesn't automatically mean you're going to win. All it means is that a lethal weapon gets injected into the situation by someone. What happens after that point depends on who's more in the know about what they are doing.
No the statement means,

The gun is hidden, hence CCW = concealed.
so by the time the opponent knows you are armed means you are drawing. until then no one should know you are carrying.


Sorry for the accidental interpretation of ramboness!


wearing the holster visibly is just to use it as a conversation piece and a show of support.

Last edited by FiReBReTHa; 11-23-2008 at 10:13 PM.
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post #11 of 23 (permalink) Old 11-23-2008, 10:26 PM
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No the statement means,

The gun is hidden, hence CCW = concealed.
so by the time the opponent knows you are armed means you are drawing. until then no one should know you are carrying.

Sorry for the accidental interpretation of ramboness!

wearing the holster visibly is just to use it as a conversation piece and a show of support.
1) 'concealed' does not mean it's magically invisible and that no one can ever see someone is carrying even underneath clothing.

2) Even with a gun drawn (or being drawn), never be dumb enough to assume it will stay in your own hands.

That is basis for why I made the posts I have in this thread. Being able to shoot at a range in a controlled environment is a world of difference from the responsibility needed for toting it around out in the real world (as Ody already pointed out).

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post #12 of 23 (permalink) Old 11-23-2008, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arch View Post
1) 'concealed' does not mean it's magically invisible and that no one can ever see someone is carrying even underneath clothing.

2) Even with a gun drawn (or being drawn), never be dumb enough to assume it will stay in your own hands.

That is basis for why I made the posts I have in this thread. Being able to shoot at a range in a controlled environment is a world of difference from the responsibility needed for toting it around out in the real world (as Ody already pointed out).
1) quit trying to conceal your Mk23. Its not gonna happen,

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post #13 of 23 (permalink) Old 11-23-2008, 10:49 PM
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AD does frighten me with a bunch of nutz. Hell I remember the vid of the cop showing off with finger on trigger with a chambered round in a room full of kids.
i wont say who this tactical trainer is or was from a very high level police training facility.

but with the EXTREME clearing "making sure the environment they enter and and ALL personal "and i mean ALL"

the instructor while showing firearm tactics in the CLASSROOM discharged his weapon and fired a round off in the class room into the back shoot houses!!!

to sum this up?: shit can and will happen!


fuck even my dumb ass neighbor had a AD in his garage that skipped off the garage floor, off his truck and god knows where else as i walked over cautiously cause i know it was a firearm to see if there was something up as i heard him screaming HOLY SHIT!!!!!!!


so let me say sometimes the more you know about a craft or skill the more your fearful for your safety among others.

IE: knowing everyone around you is packing heat and then your whole mentality shifts back as if your in a war zone. everyone and everything can not be trusted. 24/7 watching your back.

its stressfull to say the least. as noted by all of us. we hope and for certain IF CCW got passed in IL. no doubt the requirements for completion i am sure would be the nations highest.

and i for 1 have no problem with that.

let me also add that i am not trying to insult the general public, cause lord knows there is PLENTY of officers that are IDIOTS with there lack of training to the mere knowledge of and training for firearm tactics. which is far more in detail with many other controlling factors then just the firearm youll be using.



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post #14 of 23 (permalink) Old 11-23-2008, 10:58 PM
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I'm the only one here professional enough to handle this

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post #15 of 23 (permalink) Old 11-23-2008, 11:00 PM
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how the fuck do accidentally squeeze off a round with a 10-12 pound DA pull.

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post #16 of 23 (permalink) Old 11-23-2008, 11:10 PM
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how the fuck do accidentally squeeze off a round with a 10-12 pound DA pull.
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post #17 of 23 (permalink) Old 11-24-2008, 12:13 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arch View Post
1) 'concealed' does not mean it's magically invisible and that no one can ever see someone is carrying even underneath clothing.

2) Even with a gun drawn (or being drawn), never be dumb enough to assume it will stay in your own hands.

That is basis for why I made the posts I have in this thread. Being able to shoot at a range in a controlled environment is a world of difference from the responsibility needed for toting it around out in the real world (as Ody already pointed out).


FOCUS!



you were commenting on MY holster. Which Does Dissapear.

and thus me drawing.



This discussion is to see if it is worthwhile to keep up an awareness movement as such labeled in post one.


But if you want to mention controlled environment then lets take into accoutn that more people are killed by cars and typical CCW fees are above that of getting your drivers license. So people can get access to a larger deadlier weapon... FOR LESS!
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post #18 of 23 (permalink) Old 11-24-2008, 12:17 AM
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FOCUS!



you were commenting on MY holster. Which Does Dissapear.

and thus me drawing.

This discussion is to see if it is worthwhile to keep up an awareness movement as such labeled in post one.

But if you want to mention controlled environment then lets take into accoutn that more people are killed by cars and typical CCW fees are above that of getting your drivers license. So people can get access to a larger deadlier weapon... FOR LESS!
Ask a pick-pocket what body language they watch for to find out where the wallet's kept before they make their move. I'll give you a hint... people asset-check more often than they think they do. Watch a guy get out of his car and go into a grocery store... he'll show you where his wallet is if you just watch for it. Now, tell me people won't do that w/ a firearm too.. yeah, right.


I happen to agree w/ Ody on this one... Don't walk around with an empty holster.

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post #19 of 23 (permalink) Old 11-24-2008, 10:44 AM
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an empty holster sure will be a conversation piece. just not the kind you're expecting. if it's not fully exposed people will think you are armed, fully exposed will make them wonder where the gun is. their first assumption won't be at home in the safe.

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post #20 of 23 (permalink) Old 11-24-2008, 11:57 AM
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an empty holster sure will be a conversation piece. just not the kind you're expecting. if it's not fully exposed people will think you are armed, fully exposed will make them wonder where the gun is. their first assumption won't be at home in the safe.
yup very very true, itd serve to do nothing but make people nervous around you

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post #21 of 23 (permalink) Old 11-24-2008, 12:00 PM
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yup very very true, itd serve to do nothing but make people nervous around you
Yeah, as long as Daley and blagobitch are around, its a lost cause. No real point to it, IMHO.

Kinda like the loser libs out here that think they're actually doing something about AIDS/Africa/Tibet, beyond stroking their own egos, by holding "vigils" on campus.

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post #22 of 23 (permalink) Old 11-24-2008, 12:14 PM
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the other thing that truly scares me is the seeming bravado/overconfidence expressed by those posing a hypothetical situation in which the bad guy shows up at their location shooting adn theya re able to respond in turn...

everythign ive ever heard says completely to the contrary of this reaction that youll be calm cool and collected and be able to deal effectively with the threat... im pretty sure being on the receiving end of the muzzle is far far different that imagined.

Ive never been in any such situation and hope that no one here is ever faced with it either

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post #23 of 23 (permalink) Old 11-24-2008, 08:52 PM
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the other thing that truly scares me is the seeming bravado/overconfidence expressed by those posing a hypothetical situation in which the bad guy shows up at their location shooting adn theya re able to respond in turn...

everythign ive ever heard says completely to the contrary of this reaction that youll be calm cool and collected and be able to deal effectively with the threat... im pretty sure being on the receiving end of the muzzle is far far different that imagined.

Ive never been in any such situation and hope that no one here is ever faced with it either
Not to try and sound like a hard ass (which I'm totally not) but I've been in a few serious situations and been calm cool and collected. I wouldn't have expected my self to, but for whatever reason, I do well under stress and in bad situations. That being said, all of the threats I had to deal with were when I was unarmed. Throw a second gun into the mix, and the results could have been totally different. Could I have done anything? probably not. Should I have done anything? No. I haven't been shot, no one got killed, hence no need to introduce a weapon into those situations. Had I been pulled a gun in at least one of those situations, I would be dead. No question in my mind.

I support CCW, but only with proper training and registration. I understand the desire to make the public aware of it's benefits and uses. I just think you're asking for a hassle carrying an empty holster. If you want to be the guy on the news saying "Look at this, I could have stopped this..." carry a holster in your bag, show your Utah CCW card, whatever it takes. Hell, buy a t-shirt if you want to sparka conversation. I think a better approach is to make phone calls and send letters to those who have the power to do something about it.

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