.50 GI AR-15 Uppers - Chicagoland Sportbikes
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post #1 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-20-2009, 10:27 AM Thread Starter
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.50 GI AR-15 Uppers

Not sure what I'd use it for, but I do want one...



.50 GI AR-15 Uppers

AR-15 owners will soon have another "point five-oh" option for their rifles: the .50 GI. Before now only 1911 and Glock conversion kits were available for the cartridge.

The .50 GI was born out of the idea that if .40 was better than 9mm, and .45 was better than .40, then .50 must be better then .45. It should not be compared to the .500 S&W, .50 Beowulf or the .50 Action Express as it has much less power. The cartridge is comparable to the .45 ACP +P cartridge, but with a larger diameter bullet.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...-ar-15-uppers/
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post #2 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-20-2009, 10:31 AM
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Wow, so an even SLOWER round that you'd have "lob in" at long range.

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post #3 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-20-2009, 10:32 AM
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first .50 I ever shot was a handmade converted AR-15 lower.. with a huge barrel on the front.. I have some videos of it with my buddy shooting it..

Absolutely no recoil protection.. and you manually had to screw out the bolt every shot to load in the next round...

I dinked my I a bit with the scope... Not quite a shiner.. but.. it didn't feel good..

Nothing kicks like that

It was like this



note.. I know you are talking the little pistol round.. I'm talking the bigger "shoot that thing at a damn tank" round
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post #4 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-20-2009, 10:35 AM
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You can get what they call the Beowulf entry kit for one that is in some type of .50 cal.

Cabelas has it.

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post #5 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-20-2009, 10:36 AM
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oh... this is the gun with my buddy Bryan shooting it (Fire .. you met him when we moved my tank)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...onsier+50+cal#
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post #6 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-20-2009, 12:23 PM
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Since when is .45 or .40 "better" than 9mm?

One of the big decision factors behind my owning a firearm is whether or not I'm going to be able to find ammo for it after Z-Day or any other SHTF scenario... this rifle is not on my list.

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post #7 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-20-2009, 03:38 PM Thread Starter
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Since when is .45 or .40 "better" than 9mm?

One of the big decision factors behind my owning a firearm is whether or not I'm going to be able to find ammo for it after Z-Day or any other SHTF scenario... this rifle is not on my list.


Agreed on the ammo availability issue; this would be such a fun gun though. Sure would be good to clear a room, or five.
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post #8 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-20-2009, 03:42 PM
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I don't understand it?
Why not just get an UMP or ... whatever the civvie model is called (I think USC?) My friend has one.. it's a great gun
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post #9 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-21-2009, 01:29 AM
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oh... this is the gun with my buddy Bryan shooting it (Fire .. you met him when we moved my tank)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...onsier+50+cal#
I wanted to go to IN with you guys and stop over at his place

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post #10 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-21-2009, 02:40 AM
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You can get what they call the Beowulf entry kit for one that is in some type of .50 cal.

Cabelas has it.
.50 Beowulf is a decent one but ammo usually has to be ordered. Wish I could had got the Tromix .50AE upper before they quit making "sledgehammer" uppers for ar's.

May tinker with the idea of getting a Beowulf upper for deer hunting. AR goes out when I need to tromp through brush and its going to be short range.

I'm not crazy, my mother had me tested.
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post #11 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-21-2009, 10:14 AM
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I asked above.. Why would someone get one of these for an AR rather than just buying a HK USC?

I know that's .45... but I don't understand why someone would spend their money doing this to a bottleneck rifle when they can spend around the same and have a purposebuilt entry/sub gun

no.. this isn't sarcasm.. I am not some gun expert.. I imagine there is a reason or it wouldnt have made it this far.. or did it just make it this far because people like fiddling with AR's? Personally .. I'd take the fit and finish of an HK over anything my clumsy ass hobbled onto a weapon 99.999 times out of 100

i just googled the HK USC.. they are going for 1500??!!?

I think Bryan bought his for 600$ at Fetlas.. [email protected]#[email protected]

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post #12 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-21-2009, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by iamnotgreg View Post
I asked above.. Why would someone get one of these for an AR rather than just buying a HK USC?

I know that's .45... but I don't understand why someone would spend their money doing this to a bottleneck rifle when they can spend around the same and have a purposebuilt entry/sub gun

no.. this isn't sarcasm.. I am not some gun expert.. I imagine there is a reason or it wouldnt have made it this far.. or did it just make it this far because people like fiddling with AR's? Personally .. I'd take the fit and finish of an HK over anything my clumsy ass hobbled onto a weapon 99.999 times out of 100

i just googled the HK USC.. they are going for 1500??!!?

I think Bryan bought his for 600$ at Fetlas.. [email protected]#[email protected]

Same reason people buy a Ducati when a GSXR out performs it across the board, or a HD when a V-Star will cost 1/2 as much.

It's something different and you use the same manual of arms as many of us are very familiar with. ARs are a great versatile platform, while this might seem like a stupid use of the weapon, at least it's creative.

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post #13 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-21-2009, 12:16 PM
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Same reason people buy a Ducati when a GSXR out performs it across the board, or a HD when a V-Star will cost 1/2 as much.

It's something different and you use the same manual of arms as many of us are very familiar with. ARs are a great versatile platform, while this might seem like a stupid use of the weapon, at least it's creative.
many of my friends have put .22 kits on their m-16's and AR's for.. rather an opposite reason.. at todays ammo prices FA .223 costs a friggin mint...

but that said I also see how they work.. some of these guys are gunsmiths and I think they spend 5x as much time clearing jams, fiddling, adjusting .. etc than firing.. They have multiple different kits.. and I'd say all (ok.. prolly most) are a complete pita.. you end up with an m16 that tosses 3 or 4 rounds down range then misfires or misloads... fiddle fiddle.. do it again)

I want my shit to work...

A stock HK just about anything is a better designed and running gun than probably any AR (ok.. my opinion.. but whatever this is the internet)... and when you start changing caliber and getting them to do things they weren't meant to do.. you end up with something I wouldn't want to rely on... for playing full auto at the range.. sure a .22 is fun..

the only reason I see converting a rifle to a pistol round is safety in a more urban environment.. and if you are using a weapon in that manner I don't want osmething that is gonna jam up lock up.. misfire and or whatever.. I want to squeeze the trigger and know it is gonna fire right then...

btw...

ever heard of the Shrike?
I actually have some friends of friends who got them.. Most of my other friends are on the never ending wait list... It's probably dead by now.. but... that was a neat 16 mod (yes i know I am using ar and m16 interchangeably.. and i imagine there isn't a lot of use for a semi auto beltfed.. but.. that's a cool mod )
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post #14 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-21-2009, 12:17 PM
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all that said.. I see your point smartdrug..
just not my thing I guess...
kinda like I never understood why people would sink 40k into a harley motor... keep your harley for cruising.. sink enough to make it fun.. then take the other 30-35k and buy an R bike
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post #15 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-21-2009, 12:35 PM
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all that said.. I see your point smartdrug..
just not my thing I guess...
kinda like I never understood why people would sink 40k into a harley motor... keep your harley for cruising.. sink enough to make it fun.. then take the other 30-35k and buy an R bike
Dude, I'm 100% with you. I think this .50GI is ridiculous, it's just another caliber that really seems pointless to me. If I'm going to take a motherfucker down, I want a rifle, END OF STORY. Not a rifle/carbine that shoots a pistol round. I want the badguy's brains to be plastered all over the place, I don't want to take 5 rounds to drop someone. I understand the need for a pistol in a tactical setting, a weapon used to fight your way back to your rifle; I cannot for the life of me figure out why something like this .50GI would be appealing in the least. It's a more expensive, less accessible, less powerful version of an AR15. At least with a neutered AR .22LR kit, you can shoot all day for $20.

Velocity/Energy from .50GI compared to 5.56 NATO:

Weight--------------------------Velocity---------------Energy

.50GI- 300 gr JHP------------------700 ft/s-------------326 ft·lbf

5.56 - 62 gr SS109 FMJBT---------3,100 ft/s------------1,303 ft·lbf


Fuck that noise.

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post #16 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-21-2009, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by iamnotgreg View Post
I don't understand it?
Why not just get an UMP or ... whatever the civvie model is called (I think USC?) My friend has one.. it's a great gun

Because even though the .45 is a great round there are ohers out there beter ballisticly

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post #17 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-21-2009, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by YZFRob View Post
..50AE upper before they quit making "sledgehammer" uppers for ar's.
.
Had one and sold it. LOVED the fact that DE and it used the same ammo. I regret not getting a .44mag sledge hammer. Seems now all he does is the fast bullets.

And the .458 is junk

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post #18 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-21-2009, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by iamnotgreg View Post
I asked above.. Why would someone get one of these for an AR rather than just buying a HK USC?

I know that's .45... but I don't understand why someone would spend their money doing this to a bottleneck rifle when they can spend around the same and have a purposebuilt entry/sub gun

Ballistics! sub guns are more like compromise guns. Pistol caliber in a short rifle form..... so anytime someone claims to have a round or idea hotter or better han the last people jump on it. In this case it's the size game. .50 WOW a alf in gun..... BFD

You gotta look at the total package and se what works best for YOUR application.

The .50 GI i cant see knocking hinges off doors the same as a B-Wulf........ And I've done that with teh B-Wulf.

As far as sub guns go, that's a whole other can of worms.

you cant say Uzi or UMP or Tommy and call it a day, it's a lot deeper that that but it all begins wth teh cartridge.

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post #19 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-21-2009, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by iamnotgreg View Post
many of my friends have put .22 kits on their m-16's and AR's for.. rather an opposite reason.. at todays ammo prices FA .223 costs a friggin mint...

but that said I also see how they work.. some of these guys are gunsmiths and I think they spend 5x as much time clearing jams, fiddling, adjusting .. etc than firing.. They have multiple different kits.. and I'd say all (ok.. prolly most) are a complete pita.. you end up with an m16 that tosses 3 or 4 rounds down range then misfires or misloads... fiddle fiddle.. do it again)
Find new friends............FAST!

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post #20 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-21-2009, 07:26 PM
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Find new friends............FAST!
I might have been exaggerating a bit...
Since you are in Indiana now.. and (I believe Law Enforcement).. and the gun circles there.. We probably know some of the same people.. Some of these guys really know their shit.. but to be honest.. as butthead once said "you can't polish a turd beavis"


Most guns that are great at one thing aren't great in another ...this is all things

A harley isn't a great race bike ... an R6.. not the perfect touring bike...

A sniper rifle doesn't generally make a great entry weapon.. .50 bmg makes for a shitty pistol round.. etc etc...

(some of this is in reply to an earlier message from you about different rounds)

a sub gun is meant to do a job... it's better at that job than a pistol.. but shorter than a rifle...

If I were to use .. say an SBR AR.. in my house for home defense.. chances are the round would go clean through the guy.. then the wall.. then the house.. then out the window.. into the church across the street or into my neighbors house... I would say this is one of the good reasons for a short rifle / pistol combo.. accurate but not going to kill 3 more people as the round continues on a half mile (another exaggeration.. but you get my point)


I just see converting an AR to .50 like converting an R1 to Diesel... Interesting in a 1 off concept.. I can see that.. but as a product.. Who would buy it?
Diesel is a good fuel.. R1 is a good bike.. put them together and you get WTF?
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post #21 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-21-2009, 10:18 PM
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I agree with Ponch. The sub-gun is dead. The Navy only carries a handful of MP5SD's for special occasions. All other MP5's have been phased out for sometime. I'm surprised that HK even developed the UMP. Seems like a mis-guided weapon to me especially when you consider the newer 5.56 rounds and SBR's that are available today. I can't say I've done a lot of research on this but I don't think any large US agency is using the UMPs.

Over-penetration is highly over exaggerated. Look at the trend in SWAT and PD's with issuing M4's and AR SBRs over MP5's. Do you think the lawyers would let them have the 5.56 round if over penetration were any kind of issue? FBI testing has disproved this idea. To exit the skin on the opposite site of the impact is like trying to push through another 10" of flesh and muscle.

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post #22 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-21-2009, 10:31 PM
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I agree with Ponch. The sub-gun is dead. The Navy only carries a handful of MP5SD's for special occasions. All other MP5's have been phased out for sometime. I'm surprised that HK even developed the UMP. Seems like a mis-guided weapon to me especially when you consider the newer 5.56 rounds and SBR's that are available today. I can't say I've done a lot of research on this but I don't think any large US agency is using the UMPs.

Over-penetration is highly over exaggerated. Look at the trend in SWAT and PD's with issuing M4's and AR SBRs over MP5's. Do you think the lawyers would let them have the 5.56 round if over penetration were any kind of issue? FBI testing has disproved this idea. To exit the skin on the opposite site of the impact is like trying to push through another 10" of flesh and muscle.
You're kidding right?
a 5.56 goes through clean
it was never made to kill.. it was made to wound (might be overstated.. but.. it's not a hollowpoint)
and it they go clean through a car.. they will go clean through a people

couple shots of targets















a bottleneck round will go clean through you... chances are it will even if it hits a bone.. but if it doesn't.. you're not even going to slow it down...

Will it hit someone along it's intended path? Chances are no.. but chances go up in densely populated areas.. Hence gangbangers and all those accidental little kid killings.. at least some of them


I always loved how in movies people hid behind things when shot at.. car doors.. 55 gallon drums.. house doors or walls..

Bullets go through a lot more than people think.. and i know most people in here know that.. I have shot a .50 bmg at a tree so big around 2 people couldnt wrap their arms around it.. went clean through.. then through the tree behind it.. then into the ground deep enough i couldnt find it...

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post #23 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-21-2009, 10:39 PM
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You're kidding right?
a 5.56 goes through clean
it was never made to kill.. it was made to wound (might be overstated.. but.. it's not a hollowpoint)
and it they go clean through a car.. they will go clean through a people

couple shots of targets

...
a bottleneck round will go clean through you... chances are it will even if it hits a bone.. but if it doesn't.. you're not even going to slow it down...

Will it hit someone along it's intended path? Chances are no.. but chances go up in densely populated areas.. Hence gangbangers and all those accidental little kid killings.. at least some of them


I always loved how in movies people hid behind things when shot at.. car doors.. 55 gallon drums.. house doors or walls..

Bullets go through a lot more than people think.. and i know most people in here know that.. I have shot a .50 bmg at a tree so big around 2 people couldnt wrap their arms around it.. went clean through.. then through the tree behind it.. then into the ground deep enough i couldnt find it...
You'd be surprised.
http://www.razoreye.net/mirror/ammo-...m#%23556indoor
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Q. Isn't 5.56 too dangerous to use indoors? Shouldn't I use a pistol or shotgun instead?

Virtually any kind of ammo, with the exception of light bird shot, will easily penetrate typical wall construction (two layers of wall-board separated by 3 to 4 inches of space). Testing has shown, however, that after penetrating a typical interior wall, a 5.56mm projectile will have less wounding potential than most common handgun or buckshot loads. This is true because the low mass of the bullet sheds velocity quickly, and velocity is its key wounding component. This doesn't mean that 5.56mm ammo isn't still potentially deadly, but that the severity of an injury is likely to be less from a 5.56mm bullet than from a 9mm, .40, .45, or #00 buckshot round. What is important is not the degree to which these rounds penetrate, but their "ex post lethality" or their lethality AFTER encountering wallboard or other cover/concealment.

The difference is so significant that the FBI and other ballistic experts recommend that law enforcement transition to handguns to "dig suspects out" of cover because of the superior penetration and wounding ability of handgun rounds over 5.56 or .223.

This, along with the increasing number of lawsuits from "friendly fire" submachine gun victims and 5.56mm's ability to penetrate ballistic vests, are some of the reasons that many SWAT teams are transitioning away from the 9mm MP5 and selecting 5.56mm carbines instead.

This is understandable given the longer barrel length and therefore higher velocity and consequently higher penetration of handgun rounds in submachine guns.

If our experience on the forums are accurate, most shot gunners and submachine gun fans receive this news poorly. It does seem counterintuitive since 5.56mm is a "high powered round." All we can say to this is that the FBI FTU fired hundreds of rounds through carefully constructed wall sections and then into gel. Ignore these results at your own peril.
Those FBI test results are corroborated by this test:
http://www.olyarms.com/index.php?opt...d=15&Itemid=26


And this Box o'truth test is also informative:
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot1.htm

Notice how the 5.56 is tumbling by sheet 6, while pistol and shotgun rounds are still happily punching through.

Attorney-at-Law: Doing my part to contribute to the downfall of western society.
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post #24 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-21-2009, 11:00 PM
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Good info there Rob...
I wasn't doing "scientific" testing.. We were doing.. errr.. "redneck scientific" testing

(shooting and blowing shit up while drinking rather heavily)

but.. I was basing it off of seeing the m16 rounds go clean though whatever we shot them at.. in one side of the car and out the other.. they were blowing through the engine compartment and out the other side.. but as you can see from the one shot it's really hard to tell what was happening in there (10 guys firing full auto at the same time.. it was a mess)

those guys were doing better tests...

that said.. if someone is shooting at my with an m16.. I will not be hiding behind a car door.. no matter what their testing says

I always thought bottleneck had a LOT more penetrating power...
Guess I will do a bit more reading up...

the pistol rounds we fired would tend to basically splatter.. where the 5.56 / 7.62 etc rounds seemed to hold shape better..

so I am not personally convinced 100% but.. I haven't followed all the links yet either..
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post #25 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-21-2009, 11:02 PM
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the mp5-sd is still my favorite..
except for that annoying blow back puff of air in the eye thing.. that sucks
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post #26 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-22-2009, 09:15 AM

 
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The nato fmj 5.56/.223 is not intended for indoor use/home defense. A pistol grip shotgun is MUCH better. clearly you can't use a slug with a pistol grip shotgun. Kind of defeats the purpose of using it inside anyway.

you might consider using the "hunting" 556/223 round for SHTF. It was banned internationally years ago for military use. that's why we use FMJ to start with. MP's etc use FMJ in their 9mm's too because of said agreement.

Personally, I like the frangible rounds for the AR. It's like a shotgun blast INSIDE the body. I keep a handful of incendiary rounds too for the extra punch against cars. FMJ's kill paper! I hate paper...

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post #27 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-22-2009, 01:41 PM
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No way a .50 BMG went through a tree.

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post #28 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-22-2009, 01:42 PM
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No way a .50 BMG went through a tree.
yea huh fur reel
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post #29 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-22-2009, 01:49 PM
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yea huh fur reel
It's a physical impossibility. The tree gets more dense as the bullet attempts to penetrate it. If the energy of a car doing 80 mph can be completely decimated by a tree, a bullet isn't going to do anything.

I've never shot a .50BMG at a tree but I've shot both a 7.62x54 and a .30-06 and neither did anything beyond knocking off bark and penetrating 1/4". Even at 30 times the energy of either of those rounds, the numbers just don't add up.

Long story short, pics or it didn't happen. This has been something I've researched a lot in the past and have never been able to find pics/video.

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post #30 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-22-2009, 01:52 PM
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It's a physical impossibility. The tree gets more dense as the bullet attempts to penetrate it. If the energy of a car doing 80 mph can be completely decimated by a tree, a bullet isn't going to do anything.

I've never shot a .50BMG at a tree but I've shot both a 7.62x54 and a .30-06 and neither did anything beyond knocking off bark and penetrating 1/4". Even at 30 times the energy of either of those rounds, the numbers just don't add up.

Long story short, pics or it didn't happen. This has been something I've researched a lot in the past and have never been able to find pics/video.
dont have pics i dont think... didn't go this fall.. might go in april

oh.. and all those rounds you are talking about.. you realize they are basically pellets right?

.50bmg is... well comparing a prius to a humvee wouldn't be an accurate comparison.. maybe a miata to a school bus

oh.. and not sure if it matters.. but we were using AP rounds (cheapest.. the incendiary ones cost 30 cents more a round back then (30% more.. it used to be a buck a round for old surplus.. its like 5 now)



comparison really doesn't do it justice.. it's like a half stick going off 6" from your brain
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