what are the FACTS on creatine? - Chicagoland Sportbikes
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post #1 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-10-2006, 02:30 PM Thread Starter
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what are the FACTS on creatine?

after reading some good things on this board and elsewhere, I'm thinking about adding creatine to my diet and workout regimen. I'm asking here because a lot of you guys are pretty knowledgeable *cough* BIGGY *cough* and can share experiences, etc.
I only want to gain lean mass, anything else I'm not interested in, (obviously diet is key here) will creatine help do this or also gain fat with muscle?
What formulation/brand should I look for?
How/when should it be taken in conjunction with high protein shakes and meals?
Should it be taken every day or only on lifting days?
Is loading and cycling use important?
What are the drawbacks and side affects?
Are gains while on creatine diminished if you stop taking it (assuming workouts and diet continue)?
what else should I know about creatine?
Are there other products that might help me achieve my goals more effectively? goals include continuing to increase muscle while reducing fat (which I've been doing successfully) but I have no plans of becoming the incredible hulk. Mostly concerned with strength and definition in the end, but still want to increase size at this point.

Thanks all

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post #2 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-10-2006, 02:42 PM
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thats a lot of questions.

pros:
-you'll have more energy in the gym, which leads to longer and more intense workouts
-immediate size difference

cons:
-the size change is mostly your muscles holding water
-you should cycle it since you dont want your body to stop its own production
-you need to take it even on off days, your body has to be trained to retain it or you'll just piss it out
-make sure you hydrate enough or you will get some muscle cramping


overall it works well. I use it with great results. be sure to cycle off it periodically. Get a good brand of 100% pure monohydrate and mix it with whatever you like, some people claim drinks with sugar help absorbsion but personally i've never noticed either way. Some people need to double the dosage in a 5 day loading phase to train their body to retain it, your mileage may vary. I take between 5-10gm a day when I'm using it.

Chris
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post #3 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-10-2006, 02:54 PM
 
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I'm not really going to promote any brands but I've used quite a few that don't cause your muscles to retain water. I've also noticed a lot of brands adding there own ingredients to make the muscle absorb it faster, usually a sugar or something with the same result.
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post #4 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-10-2006, 02:58 PM
 
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fyi, there's a place I found that has the best prices I've seen for supplements. What I've been doing is buying it online, and then bring the receipt to a local store and have it price matched. The website is bodybuildingoutlet.com, if anyone has any better prices let me know. btw, I've ordered from them quite a few times and the stuff isn't old or expired
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post #5 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-10-2006, 03:01 PM
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dpsnutrition is where i order from. I've been pretty happy with prolab creatine.

Chris
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post #6 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-10-2006, 03:04 PM
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My expierience with Creatine was in the liquid form, the type you drip under your tongue. From this I learned that all it does is make your muscles retain more water so that you stay "pumped" longer. Since it makes your muscles retain water they are actually swollen so that the same rep actually takes less muscle movement to complete thus requiring less effort which in turn allows you to do a few more reps.

My opinion on gaining size and definition is its impossible. When gaining size you are loading up with protien and eating a ton to be sure your body has all the nutrients it needs to bulk up. Not only that when working for size and strength you do low reps with heavy weight as when trying to gain definition you do the exact opposite, low weight more reps. Personally I have worked on strength all winter and have started doing more reps and cardio to lose the fat I gained. Most of the guys I talk to at the gym work on strength and size over the winter and dedicate the spring and summer to definition, its when your body will be seen the most so it makes sense if thats your goal.
I drink protein shakes before and after my work out and on none work out days I try to consume more protien and less carbs.

The truth is no matter what you drink you have to be dedicated. It takes time before you notice anthing visually and if you really are serious you'll work every muscle group twice a week. I've been dedicated for about a year now and to my eyes I look pretty much the same, but I am definetly stronger. I also buy Muscle and Fitness every other month so I can pick up new excersices and read up on latest tricks. From this months issue I pulled an excellent bicep program, learned to use the smith machine for isolated back row and found out that coconut water is better than gatorade.

Good luck
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post #7 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-10-2006, 03:06 PM
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I've tried a few different brands. My favorite was phosphagenHP (sp?) from EAS

I saw major gains in both size and strength.
when I would cycle off, I didn't lose the weight or strength.
then another jump up during the next loading phase.

drawbacks: cost, which is why I quit taking it.
the cramping issue. ever had cramps in your rib muscles or your face? good times.
finally, I drank so much water when I used it that I had to piss constantly.
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post #8 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-10-2006, 03:17 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vcook
dpsnutrition is where i order from. I've been pretty happy with prolab creatine.
you da man!!!
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post #9 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-10-2006, 03:50 PM
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If you really want to blow up look into this "No2 Hemodilator". My friend took this for a month and went from monkey skinny to stocky. Its expensive though.

http://www.musclebod.net/no2.htm
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post #10 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-10-2006, 04:23 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vcook
pros:
-you'll have more energy in the gym, which leads to longer and more intense workouts
-immediate size difference

cons:
-the size change is mostly your muscles holding water
-you should cycle it since you dont want your body to stop its own production
-you need to take it even on off days, your body has to be trained to retain it or you'll just piss it out
-make sure you hydrate enough or you will get some muscle cramping


overall it works well. I use it with great results. be sure to cycle off it periodically. Get a good brand of 100% pure monohydrate and mix it with whatever you like, some people claim drinks with sugar help absorbsion but personally i've never noticed either way. Some people need to double the dosage in a 5 day loading phase to train their body to retain it, your mileage may vary. I take between 5-10gm a day when I'm using it.
so the size increase is essentially artificial since your muscles are retaining more water, correct? and from what gas guzzler said it sounds like your muscles are fatigued less due to the excess water, but you want muscle fatigue in order for them to grow. For a competing athlete, the reduced fatigue is a plus. For someone like myself, looking for real gains in tissue size and strength, it doesn't sound like all its cracked up to be.

Kevin

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post #11 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-10-2006, 04:32 PM
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it is though. it works well.

get it, its cheap. use it right.

Chris
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post #12 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-10-2006, 04:57 PM
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I love the pride nutrition line of products. They are located in addison, IL, I think? They have a website at pridenutrition.com. They have an NO2 formula as well as some other products. I get mine at the GNC in Tinley Park. I dont think that all GNC's carry it, just Tinley Pk. They offer you a better price there than directly on the web. I have used their fat burner, the NO2, and the protein. All top notch quality with great effects. Worth a try, I have never had anyone try it and tell me that they didn't like the effects.
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post #13 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-11-2006, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vcook
thats a lot of questions.

pros:
-you'll have more energy in the gym, which leads to longer and more intense workouts
-immediate size difference

cons:
-the size change is mostly your muscles holding water
-you should cycle it since you dont want your body to stop its own production
-you need to take it even on off days, your body has to be trained to retain it or you'll just piss it out
-make sure you hydrate enough or you will get some muscle cramping


overall it works well. I use it with great results. be sure to cycle off it periodically. Get a good brand of 100% pure monohydrate and mix it with whatever you like, some people claim drinks with sugar help absorbsion but personally i've never noticed either way. Some people need to double the dosage in a 5 day loading phase to train their body to retain it, your mileage may vary. I take between 5-10gm a day when I'm using it.

taking it with sugar helps by getting the natural insulin in your body to take it right to the muscle for energy and storage. it does need to be stacked at first. and make sure it is a brand that dillutes well cause if it doesnt you wont get a full result.
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post #14 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-11-2006, 05:40 PM
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There is no substitute for a consistent routine. Showing up 3-5 times a week is all you need. Forget the creatine. Just get to the gym, follow your routine and eat as much quality food as you can scarf down.

If you want fast, artificial results there is only one answer--JUICE.

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post #15 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-11-2006, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
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There is no substitute for a consistent routine. Showing up 3-5 times a week is all you need. Forget the creatine. Just get to the gym, follow your routine and eat as much quality food as you can scarf down.
+111111!!1!1!!!!1

I'll never understand why people concentrate on health and fitness so much, yet are willing to take all these artifical supplements that haven't been around long enough for us to see what long-term effects they have on the body.

I'm off to the gym right now, with just a water bottle and some patience.

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post #16 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-11-2006, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteSeatEnvy
There is no substitute for a consistent routine. Showing up 3-5 times a week is all you need. Forget the creatine. Just get to the gym, follow your routine and eat as much quality food as you can scarf down.

If you want fast, artificial results there is only one answer--JUICE.
+10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 you tell them Jon.

I guess I'm old school in more than one way....the only thing I do is take a multi-vitamin everyday. I rotate my workouts and weeks, heavy one week little another the next, and each work out a different routine. The natural lifters will always be "smaller" but will always in the long run be healthier. I lift, watch what I eat, and workout to stay healthier and increased endurance.

Sometimes goodbye is your second chance.
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post #17 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-11-2006, 10:02 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteSeatEnvy
There is no substitute for a consistent routine. Showing up 3-5 times a week is all you need. Forget the creatine. Just get to the gym, follow your routine and eat as much quality food as you can scarf down.

If you want fast, artificial results there is only one answer--JUICE.
who's looking for a substitute or artificial results? In the last 4 months I've totally changed my life. cardio 6-7 times per week for an hour per day. weight training 3-5 days per week. I only consume healthy, high quality foods. Since mid september I've lost 40 pounds of body weight. Since mid november I've been monitoring body fat percentage which has gone down roughly 12%, while I've gained a good 12 pounds of lean mass, just in these last 8 weeks alone. No substitute necessary, I'm putting in the work and loving it.
I'm learning about creatine, maybe its for me, maybe it isn't. Regarless, I'm improving every day

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post #18 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-11-2006, 10:07 PM
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what a joke. i have shirts that have spent more time in the gym than most people on the board. I know what I'm talking about, and I noted that individual results vary in my post. Next time there is a thread asking for opinions on stuff people know nothing about about you guys feel free to chime in, till then try to stay on topic.


Chris

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post #19 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-11-2006, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
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what a joke. i have shirts that have spent more time in the gym than most people on the board. I know what I'm talking about, and I noted that individual results vary in my post. Next time there is a thread asking for opinions on stuff people know nothing about about you guys feel free to chime in, till then try to stay on topic.

Jeez us. lol

Ok, I'll stay on topic. The facts about creatine are it is a waste of money. Kev if you have achieved the results you have achieved without creatine, the only thing adding creatine to your workout is going to do is cause you ligament and tendon damage, possible liver damage, and over trained muscles.

"includes 10 used-car dealers or auto repair shops, 11 liquor stores and bars--two of which advertise lingerie fashion shows and a third billed as a "gentlemen's club"--three cut-rate motels and one trailer park. The squat, brick municipal building is next to a currency exchange and a few steps from an adult video store. The bars open at 10 a.m. and close at 6:30 a.m."

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post #20 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-11-2006, 11:38 PM
 
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post #21 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-12-2006, 05:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteSeatEnvy
Jeez us. lol

Ok, I'll stay on topic. The facts about creatine are it is a waste of money. Kev if you have achieved the results you have achieved without creatine, the only thing adding creatine to your workout is going to do is cause you ligament and tendon damage, possible liver damage, and over trained muscles.


Once again +1. Kevin, stick with what your doing, it's working. Creatine save that for the "bulkers".

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post #22 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-12-2006, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteSeatEnvy
There is no substitute for a consistent routine. Showing up 3-5 times a week is all you need. Forget the creatine. Just get to the gym, follow your routine and eat as much quality food as you can scarf down.

If you want fast, artificial results there is only one answer--JUICE.
+2
There is no substitute for hard work but suppliments can help you get the full benefit of your workout by providing nutrients to replenish and restore your muscles so you can be strong for your next workout. Protiens are also needed for muscle building so if your on a program to get stronger it helps when you cant eat four steaks a day. They also help when your schedule doesn't allow you to eat properly before your workout. If your going to the gym for an hour to workout at 5:30 pm your lunch from noon isn't gonna do shit for you.

If your patient a good diet and dedicated attitude you can achieve your goals, some people just don't have the natural attributes to achieve those goals so they go to suppliments. Just bust your ass and read up on the best way to lift and eat.

Good luck.
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post #23 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-12-2006, 08:16 AM
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My biggest regret is that I spent so many years in the gym without supplementing. Protein is a given, creatine is a personal choice. I like the extra gear it gives me at the end of sets. Like clicking into 6th when you thought you already were.

Also, creatine is hardly a bulking tool. I love how people talk about "accidentally" getting too big in the gym. I've never known anyone that didnt either juice or have freaky genetic makeup that would "accidentally" get too big.

Chris
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post #24 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-12-2006, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteSeatEnvy
There is no substitute for a consistent routine. Showing up 3-5 times a week is all you need. Forget the creatine. Just get to the gym, follow your routine and eat as much quality food as you can scarf down.

If you want fast, artificial results there is only one answer--JUICE.

+1.

Creatine does work as do many other supplements, but it only works a little bit. Creatine is cheap, but it never really worked that much for me, regardless of quantity or quality.

If you really want results, juice is the best investment. NOTE: I am not promoting steriods!! Just saying they are the best bang for the buck.

In the past, I would try every supplement (legal suppliment!) I could find and would spend a fortune for a little result. That's the issue a lot of us (or maybe just me!) have, it is easier to spend money on the "latest" suppliment than time and effort in the gym and discipline with the diet.

Now, I know the secret. Just lift hard and heavy and often and eat lots of quality food. Suppliment with a good quality protein shake when you can't eat real food and throw in a multiple vitamin/mineral.

If you got more money to spend, spend it on suppliments...just don't believe all the hype in the ads. If you want something that delivers on what the suppliment ads promise, it's called juice.

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post #25 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-12-2006, 09:34 AM
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This thread is going to why and what are your goals for lifting. The "bulkers" lift for total different reasons, than why I lift. So it comes down to two different camps...the bulkers and the "others". IMHO "bulkers" are always looking for some "miracle" supplement so when they hit the beach on Spring Break, they can fall in love with themselves all over again. The "others" lift to fight the ravages of aging, increase endurance and have an edge in some other activity they are involved in. I lift because if I my make upper body look bigger, it makes my waist look smaller, muscles burn fat, so I can go back to my favorite activites, eating and riding. I prefer my lifting to be natural and healthy, so I'll stick to a good diet and a good workout, and I'll be doing it long after spring break is over

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post #26 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-12-2006, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
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This thread is going to why and what are your goals for lifting. The "bulkers" lift for total different reasons, than why I lift. So it comes down to two different camps...the bulkers and the "others". IMHO "bulkers" are always looking for some "miracle" supplement so when they hit the beach on Spring Break, they can fall in love with themselves all over again. The "others" lift to fight the ravages of aging, increase endurance and have an edge in some other activity they are involved in. I lift because if I my make upper body look bigger, it makes my waist look smaller, muscles burn fat, so I can go back to my favorite activites, eating and riding. I prefer my lifting to be natural and healthy, so I'll stick to a good diet and a good workout, and I'll be doing it long after spring break is over
Yea, yea whatever. Throw some weight on that bar and push!

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post #27 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-12-2006, 10:07 AM
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Rick..you are HUGE.
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post #28 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-12-2006, 10:25 AM
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Rick..you are HUGE.

Watch what you say, he is also a practitioner of Capoeira, the Brazilian martial art of dance-fighting.
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post #29 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-12-2006, 11:21 AM
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Watch what you say, he is also a practitioner of Capoeira, the Brazilian martial art of dance-fighting.

I thought he was a practioner of Capoeiro, the Brazilian art of waxing.

"includes 10 used-car dealers or auto repair shops, 11 liquor stores and bars--two of which advertise lingerie fashion shows and a third billed as a "gentlemen's club"--three cut-rate motels and one trailer park. The squat, brick municipal building is next to a currency exchange and a few steps from an adult video store. The bars open at 10 a.m. and close at 6:30 a.m."

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Originally Posted by admin View Post
Something must be fishy...I am going to go poke around in the back end..
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post #30 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-12-2006, 12:19 PM
BH
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if you guys eat meat, you're taking creatine.

fucking bulkers!
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