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Health & Fitness Talk to fellow members about getting in shape, to diets, to supplements and what does and doesn't work.

 
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post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-14-2006, 09:15 AM Thread Starter
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fat burners

I was talking to a trainer and he recommended the use of fat burners to speed up the process. I can see my abs again and that's great but can't get rid of the little extra just on my waist.
Yes I cut beer out
any of you guys use them, if so what brand ?
what , how fast did you see the results if any
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post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-14-2006, 09:29 AM
 
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Are you looking for stimulant or non-stimulant fat burner?
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post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-14-2006, 09:38 AM
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I used the xyience xbam fat burner stuff for a little while this fall. I lost a lot of weight, mostly due to nutrition and exercise, but I think it did help out some. A lot of the fat burners out there have questionable and dangerous ingredients, and I had found a list of those most risky on consumer reports web site. The xyience stuff was one of the few that didn't have any on that list so I tried it. Didn't make me shaky, or cause any other noticeable side effects. Its one of the less expensive fat burners as well. I'd use it again if necessary

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post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-14-2006, 10:07 AM
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post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-14-2006, 10:15 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kc6
I used the xyience xbam fat burner stuff for a little while this fall. I lost a lot of weight, mostly due to nutrition and exercise, but I think it did help out some. A lot of the fat burners out there have questionable and dangerous ingredients, and I had found a list of those most risky on consumer reports web site. The xyience stuff was one of the few that didn't have any on that list so I tried it. Didn't make me shaky, or cause any other noticeable side effects. Its one of the less expensive fat burners as well. I'd use it again if necessary
Xyience one is no different than any other fat burner. They swap a couple unimportant ingredients in and make a new product. Caffeine is caffeine is caffeine is caffeine.

I can be so bold as to even make this statement. And while in the details it varies, on the general level: EVERY THERMOGENIC FAT BURNING PRODUCT ON THE MARKET IS EXACTLY THE SAME.

We're arguing R6 vs ZX6 vs GSXR 600 here. Is there really a difference in your end all be all performance? Not really. Xyience has absolutely nothing new or revolutionary about not only it's fat burner, but ANY of it's products.

You have 2 options: Caffeine or not caffeine. Caffeine is everything out there. They call it different names, get it from different sources, and dump different side ingredients in, but it's aaaalllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll the same.

Non caffeine you have L-carnitine, fat blockers/binders, or fat metabolisor assistants.

That's it. Xyience is not in consumer reports yet because no one has OD'd on it yet. That's why products are usually deemed unsafe...it's like drinking a bottle of vodka and then banning vodka because someone died after a bottle of it. Stupid.
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post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-14-2006, 10:18 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokinjohn
Have 2 cups of coffee instead at the office...it's free and easily gives you more caffeine.
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post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-14-2006, 10:37 AM Thread Starter
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The only think I take are proteins. I mix it with water and I'm set.
Other than that I'm VERY hesitant about using any other product. I'm not looking to get really big, I just want nice shape, cut and I'm pretty darn close to where I want to be.
Stimulant or non-stimulant? I just don't know the difference between those. Please explain
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post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-14-2006, 10:38 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VoytekNT
The only think I take are proteins. I mix it with water and I'm set.
Other than that I'm VERY hesitant about using any other product. I'm not looking to get really big, I just want nice shape, cut and I'm pretty darn close to where I want to be.
Stimulant or non-stimulant? I just don't know the difference between those. Please explain
Caffeine or not caffeine...I wrote about them above. Caffeine works good'n fast. The others are slower but don't give you the hibety jibety.
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post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-14-2006, 10:47 AM Thread Starter
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OK thanks, I guess I got my answer
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post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-14-2006, 11:19 AM
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Biggy,

You are making it sound like just drinking a couple of cups of coffee compares to taking a fat burner. As in there is no point for the pills... While I agree with you that the pills don't do much (it is all about caloric intake) I do believe that those pills have more in them than just caffeine.

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post #11 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-14-2006, 11:35 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by logtar
Biggy,

You are making it sound like just drinking a couple of cups of coffee compares to taking a fat burner. As in there is no point for the pills... While I agree with you that the pills don't do much (it is all about caloric intake) I do believe that those pills have more in them than just caffeine.
Well, you are correct. They do have more in them than just caffeine. However the additional ingredients are sometimes useless. Ok I just went to Google and typed in "fat burner" then clicked on the first page which led me to Zantrex 3. Let's go over the ingredients shall we?

The first ingredient I see is Niacin...aka Vitamin B3. If you show me how Niacin will help you lose weight I'll give you a cookie. But what niacin can do is give you a flush...bring a little color to the face and add to the feel of a fat burner. In reality it does nothing.

Now let's look at their magical blend of Zantrek-3 which is a unique combination of: Yerba-mate, Guarana, and Caffeine. Ooh, sounds like a winner to me.

Ok, first up is Yerba mate which is a cool sounding name. Makes me feel like taking a vacation to some tropical place. Let's read some of thier direct quotes from the company. "Yerba mate is a herb that contain a gentle form of caffeine" Goodie

Next is Guarana...you're intrigued because it's from Brazil or some place you'd like to go on vacation...but guess what. It's caffeine.

And the final key ingredient is caffeine.

wow. amazing. Now it beats a few cups of coffee for sure, but it's caffeine. Take it in any form that you want. It's all the same...sorry Logtar. Find me some other product and I can go over it if ya like
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post #12 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-14-2006, 11:40 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGGY
The first ingredient I see is Niacin...aka Vitamin B3. If you show me how Niacin will help you lose weight I'll give you a cookie. But what niacin can do is give you a flush..
Well, if its giving you a flush, aren't you losing weight? Where's my cookie!
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post #13 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-14-2006, 12:04 PM
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Read all the labels first. 2 things to look out for:

1) Ephedra. I vaguely recall something about some problems with ephedra-based supplements.

2) With caffeine-based products, there are warnings about taking them if you already drink caffeniated products.

Of course, there is always the old fashioned "cut down the amount you eat and exercise more" approach.

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post #14 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-14-2006, 12:22 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jibit
Well, if its giving you a flush, aren't you losing weight? Where's my cookie!
hehe, flush as in flush of the face...not flush of the system
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post #15 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-14-2006, 12:24 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGGY
hehe, flush as in flush of the face...not flush of the system
damn, and I thought I was getting a cookie!
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post #16 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-14-2006, 12:33 PM
 
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And another thing. Let’s pretend we have some other caffeine supplements with other ingredients. I’ve seen things like pepper, boron, vanadium (aka vanadyl sulfate) chromium, yohimbe, other aminos, vitamins, added as supplementary ingredients to the caffeine. There is generally one of 2 things wrong with the ingredients (though often both).

1) The ingredient is not effective at weight loss or has very weak, possibly controversial claims in supporting it.
2) If we pretend for a second that one of those or many other extra ingredients truly are effective, then the amount in there is so minimal, that it’s virtually useless.

There have been very very very few significant gains in nutritional supplements since the 80’s. Creatine has been around long before most of us were born, Whey protein as well…caffeine products are the same. There must be a new way to sell the same old crap. If I start a company it’s very simple.

- I take studies of 70 year old post-menopausal women which show that their testosterone went up due to them taking Boron.
- I add in things that work…caffeine, creatine, l-carnitine, etc
- I add chromium, vanadium, yohimbe, androstene, and any other ingredients that I like to my own “Proprietary Blend* ”.

Then I market it with a lot of hype. You must think that’s better than drinking a lot of coffee for the very reason that I market it…I cover my tracks, I tell you what the product does so that you don’t go out and research Boron. If the bottle says that boron boosts testosterone, that’s good enough for 9 outta 10 to not bother going to read up on it. You say the classic line which Logtar said “…I do believe that those pills have more in them than just caffeine.” They absolutely do…too bad they are as useful to you as putting an eye dropper amount of octane booster in your cars gas tank.
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post #17 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-14-2006, 12:36 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norseman82
1) Ephedra. I vaguely recall something about some problems with ephedra-based supplements.

Of course, there is always the old fashioned "cut down the amount you eat and exercise more" approach.
The problem with ephedra based supplements are the same as with alcohol. Irresponsible use = bad shit happens. With supplements I'm not as quick to call someone a moron because many people just don't know. Where as alcohol we are more or less educated on, at least compared to nutritional supplements.

When you come into the health food store you think that Mr. GNC man knows his shit, when he usually knows only what the hyped up mags and manufacturers tell him.
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post #18 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-14-2006, 12:40 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGGY
When you come into the health food store you think that Mr. GNC man knows his shit, when he usually knows only what the hyped up mags and manufacturers tell him.

The GNC guys knows just as much as the retards at radioshack know about electronics! (sorry if anyone works at radioshack)
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post #19 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-14-2006, 02:03 PM
 
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Hey ASS! I work at GNC!!!!!!!!!!!











JK and I do miss Ephedra!

We still haven't answered the question and now I'm curious. What does and doesn't work for supplements? I'd like to know more about fat burners! I'm not fat but I've got a little winter pudge.
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post #20 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-14-2006, 02:21 PM
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wicked, basically Biggy is saying that fat burning supplements are just a concentrated dose of caffeinne that you could get from a couple of cups of joe... He is a pretty good source for information and while I don't want to believe him I think he is right. Fat burners and just coffee pills.

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post #21 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-14-2006, 02:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by logtar
wicked, basically Biggy is saying that fat burning supplements are just a concentrated dose of caffeinne that you could get from a couple of cups of joe... He is a pretty good source for information and while I don't want to believe him I think he is right. Fat burners and just coffee pills.
hehe thanks for the vote of confidence I guess? As in other posts...thermogenesis or thermogenic fat burners speed up your metabolism. At this point the only cheap way I know to do that is caffeine. Put it in whatever format you like, yank it from whatever source you think is cool, but the ultimate product is caffeine. Sure looks much cooler if you write guarana rather than just caffeine though. I've described all the other types of fat burners such as l-carnitine in other posts and am not rewriting all of that...do a simple google and you can get good basic info.
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post #22 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-15-2006, 10:29 AM Thread Starter
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Biggy thanks a lot for all your info. You only confirmed what I learned about them. Thanks.
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post #23 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-15-2006, 11:10 AM
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I use an ephedra/caffine stack and I have seen excellent results. As long as you take a small enough dose and cycle off it isn't that bad (as in shakiness, but probably still bad for you).
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post #24 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-15-2006, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGGY
The problem with ephedra based supplements are the same as with alcohol. Irresponsible use = bad shit happens.
Or, you take one ephedra pill and your heart nearly pounds out of your chest and you fear death so you wake up the next day thankful to be alive and you throw the bottle in the trash.

So anyway, Biggy--- thanks for all the smart input, but what you're saying is that I have to actually go outside and run today? Dammit!
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post #25 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-15-2006, 12:57 PM
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Where can you still get ephedra?

Are we there yet?
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post #26 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-15-2006, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_rbm
Where can you still get ephedra?
You can get it on bodybuilding.com . It is under the name of vasopro.
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