Blackhawk - Bus stop / turn 4 - Chicagoland Sportbikes
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post #1 of 65 (permalink) Old 04-16-2010, 02:54 PM Thread Starter
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Blackhawk - Bus stop / turn 4

I was having the most trouble with this part of the track and was wonder how you fast peeps go through this section.

I'll start by going through my usual routine through here:

Coming out of 3 I have a good line entering the bus stop on the brakes downshifting to 2nd I believe, I come through the right hander, clip the curb with my knee puck and then bring the bike around for the immediate left while on the throttle adding throttle to drift the bike out towards the outside to setup for turn 4, shifting into third gear (I think).

I see turn 4 approaching and either let off the throttle to coast for a minute or apply some brakes to set myself up for turn 4. I come as close to the apex as I can and start to drive it back towards the outside of the track. This is usually where I realize I took turn 4 way too slow so I can get on the throttle pretty good. I setup for turn 5 and try to line up the apex, I accellerate through this whole section until I get close to my rev limiter, this is where I realize I should be in a higher gear cause now i need to wait until the bike is more upright so i can get the shift in. I shift into 4th just in time to get on the brakes for turn 6. I then realize I shouldn't have even bothered with that gear change cause i'm i'm a gear too high for turn 6/6b.

Ok, so that's pretty much how it went this weekend, those gear selections are my best guesses, I could be a little wrong but that's what I seem to have going through the instant replay in my head right now.... I think my biggest problem is going into turn 4 too slow, if I went through turn 4 faster, everything else would pretty much sort itself out cause then i could hit a gear change before turn 5 and I'd be better setup to hit 6. I just seem to have a mental barrier that's telling me I need to slow down for turn 4. I've looked through a lot of pictures of other riders in this section and I think a lot of the faster people just build speed from the bus stop all the way until the braking section for turn 6, is this correct? I always seem to enter 4 thinking I'm going a good pace but exit thinking I went in wayyy to slow...
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post #2 of 65 (permalink) Old 04-16-2010, 03:00 PM
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You should be hauling balls through 4 on the gas, upshift between 4 and 5 by slightly lifting on the bike and using GP shifting, then apex 5 and either redline your shit to the moon, or upshift and then bang a quick downshift for 6.

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post #3 of 65 (permalink) Old 04-16-2010, 03:05 PM
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I sounds like you know your problem, you just need to work at it. I don't ride fast, but I found that I kept good speed throught that section when I took the first right a bit farther in, and cut right hard close to the curbing. That left me a good line into the left kink and into turn 4. As you said, turn 4 is kind of deceiving, and you can carry more speed into it than it looks.

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post #4 of 65 (permalink) Old 04-16-2010, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago Performance View Post
You should be hauling balls through 4 on the gas, upshift between 4 and 5 by slightly lifting on the bike and using GP shifting, then apex 5 and either redline your shit to the moon, or upshift and then bang a quick downshift for 6.
+1 on balls and upshift part . Also , it helps to keep in mind that airfence is soft

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post #5 of 65 (permalink) Old 04-16-2010, 03:08 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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I sounds like you know your problem, you just need to work at it. I don't ride fast, but I found that I kept good speed throught that section when I took the first right a bit farther in, and cut right hard close to the curbing. That left me a good line into the left kink and into turn 4. As you said, turn 4 is kind of deceiving, and you can carry more speed into it than it looks.
I *think* i know what my problem is, i just want to get some confirmation or other advice from people who can go through there fast rather than me just guessing and hoping for the best next time

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post #6 of 65 (permalink) Old 04-16-2010, 03:09 PM
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Just clip the corner of the concrete patch on the entrance and use the blacktop in towards the rumble and just clip the concrete patch on the exit. Unless you are stuffing someone down the inside or have balls large enough to pass on the outside. I've crashed there 20 times.

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post #7 of 65 (permalink) Old 04-16-2010, 03:18 PM
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I worked on this yesterday with David Kim. Same advice given as Grasshopper provided above.

Have to clip the right leading edge of the concrete and turn in. As you get to that apex, and as soon as you are off the brakes/gas you are back on and picking it up. Once the bike is up, pin it to the corner workers station, nail the apex for the left, pin it to the driveway entrance/exit, turn left again, repeat.

By the way, I use the word "pin" loosely. I am more like a three penny nail that has been pulled out of a 2x4 and reused multiple times.

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post #8 of 65 (permalink) Old 04-16-2010, 03:22 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks everybody for the advice,

also dean it's good to know I'm not the only one that has had trouble with this section :-)

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post #9 of 65 (permalink) Old 04-16-2010, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago Performance View Post
You should be hauling balls through 4 on the gas, upshift between 4 and 5 by slightly lifting on the bike and using GP shifting, then apex 5 and either redline your shit to the moon, or upshift and then bang a quick downshift for 6.
This is how it's done.

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post #10 of 65 (permalink) Old 04-16-2010, 03:34 PM
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I was struggling with this corner all day Wednesday as well. good advice here
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post #11 of 65 (permalink) Old 04-16-2010, 03:35 PM
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post #12 of 65 (permalink) Old 04-16-2010, 03:36 PM
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Jeremy, Your description is exactly what I do as well. Maybe it's the bike?
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post #13 of 65 (permalink) Old 04-16-2010, 03:36 PM
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post #14 of 65 (permalink) Old 04-16-2010, 03:41 PM
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go watch by turn 4 and listen to how the fast guys go through it and how the slow guys go through it. The fast guys will be on the gas going through without any hesitation or checking up on the throttle. It should be one smooth roll of the throttle from the exit of the bus stop all the way through 4. You get style points if you push your front end because lots of people are watching between 4 and 5.

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post #15 of 65 (permalink) Old 04-16-2010, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chunk View Post
You get style points if you push your front end because lots of people are watching between 4 and 5.
Or if you house it by lowsiding coming into 4, tumble your shit a few times, and your bike lands on the wall sideways.

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post #16 of 65 (permalink) Old 04-16-2010, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
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go watch by turn 4 and listen to how the fast guys go through it and how the slow guys go through it. The fast guys will be on the gas going through without any hesitation or checking up on the throttle. It should be one smooth roll of the throttle from the exit of the bus stop all the way through 4. You get style points if you push your front end because lots of people are watching between 4 and 5.
and double style points when your bikes flips over the fence !

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post #17 of 65 (permalink) Old 04-16-2010, 03:56 PM
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All good advice.....


Getting entry / exit speed right for four is key.... commit to the corner.

Most bikes need a shortshift between 4 and 5

don't turn in too early for 5, it ruins the drive to 6.


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post #18 of 65 (permalink) Old 04-16-2010, 04:37 PM
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post #19 of 65 (permalink) Old 04-16-2010, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
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You should be hauling balls through 4 on the gas, upshift between 4 and 5 by slightly lifting on the bike and using GP shifting, then apex 5 and either redline your shit to the moon, or upshift and then bang a quick downshift for 6.
+1 the bus stop is a pretty slow corner but you should be getting through there with the idea of making the most the corner speed available cuz turn 4 is not really that slow of a corner. Here's how I used to do it on a gixxer 600...
Coming into the bus stop downshift into 2nd. As soon as you hit the apex start giving it gas and begin getting the fat part of the tire down as you flip the bike over for that little kink. At the kink you should be almost 3/4 throttle, knee on the deck, back tire spinning and drifting towards the outside rumble strips (still in 2nd gear) as you roll on the rest of the throttle. Get on the binders pretty good into 4 as you should be haulin at this point and hit that apex with as much corner speed as possible as it sets you up for 5. Shift into 3rd after turn 4. Some say it's a short shift but you should be getting pretty close to the top of 2nd gear if you carried the speed right through there.

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post #20 of 65 (permalink) Old 04-16-2010, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
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Just clip the corner of the concrete patch on the entrance and use the blacktop in towards the rumble and just clip the concrete patch on the exit. Unless you are stuffing someone down the inside or have balls large enough to pass on the outside. I've crashed there 20 times.
This is the way I do it. Seems to be how the fast guys that I'm following go through there as well.

I do brake for four though, but I've been told I shouldn't. Don't have to shift gears at all until I'm shifting up on the back straight.

To get it right, SLOW DOWN. If you can't even recall what gear you are in and where, then you are overwhelming yourself with speed. Try picking a gear that'll get you through 3, bus stop, 3d, 4 and 5 and stick with it. Or re-gear your bike so that you can.

Don't necessarily do what I say in that last part though, but maintaining one gear through there seems to be what most people that I've discussed this with do. I'm slow out of 3(e?) because I have a habit of turning in a little too early, so therefore I'm slow going into 4 as well because I have a habit of using my brakes there on top of the already slow approach.

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post #21 of 65 (permalink) Old 04-16-2010, 04:58 PM
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Oh, and right after corner 3d when you flip it right to left, if you don't wheelie a little bit you're not going fast enough.

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post #22 of 65 (permalink) Old 04-16-2010, 04:59 PM
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Good advice here. I've also made improvements through there by forcing myself to remember to slightly late-apex T5. That puts you in a better line for T6.

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post #23 of 65 (permalink) Old 04-16-2010, 05:04 PM
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Oh, and right after corner 3d when you flip it right to left, if you don't wheelie a little bit you're not going fast enough.
depends on bike but you should always feel that weird ass front end feed back when you make the transition that lets you know that you a bad muthafucka with a big dick. If you don't feel it, then it means you got a lil dick.

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post #24 of 65 (permalink) Old 04-16-2010, 05:19 PM Thread Starter
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Good stuff, can't wait to go back!

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post #25 of 65 (permalink) Old 04-16-2010, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
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+1 the bus stop is a pretty slow corner but you should be getting through there with the idea of making the most the corner speed available cuz turn 4 is not really that slow of a corner. Here's how I used to do it on a gixxer 600...
Coming into the bus stop downshift into 2nd. As soon as you hit the apex start giving it gas and begin getting the fat part of the tire down as you flip the bike over for that little kink. At the kink you should be almost 3/4 throttle, knee on the deck, back tire spinning and drifting towards the outside rumble strips (still in 2nd gear) as you roll on the rest of the throttle. Get on the binders pretty good into 4 as you should be haulin at this point and hit that apex with as much corner speed as possible as it sets you up for 5. Shift into 3rd after turn 4. Some say it's a short shift but you should be getting pretty close to the top of 2nd gear if you carried the speed right through there.
I'm personally waiting for you to show how it's done again.

well, you can leave the tire spinning part out

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post #26 of 65 (permalink) Old 04-16-2010, 05:24 PM
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very good advice!!

is anyone changing their gearing to change up where they are shifting at a little...? or help you make it to 6 with out that quick up shift down shift..???
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post #27 of 65 (permalink) Old 04-16-2010, 05:28 PM
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very good advice!!

is anyone changing their gearing to change up where they are shifting at a little...? or help you make it to 6 with out that quick up shift down shift..???
At speed there will be some give and take somewhere on the track. If you go 1 tooth taller to wind out that gear a bit then you will be bogging a little somewhere else on the track usually.

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post #28 of 65 (permalink) Old 04-16-2010, 09:14 PM
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interesting advice.

Based on Chunks logic and my riding...My sack is tiny! LOL
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post #29 of 65 (permalink) Old 04-16-2010, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
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Or if you house it by lowsiding coming into 4, tumble your shit a few times, and your bike lands on the wall sideways.
what if you lose it inbetween 4 and 5, pick up a lowside to run off and highside, and end up under the airfence with your bike on top of you?

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post #30 of 65 (permalink) Old 04-16-2010, 10:11 PM
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