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post #1 of 48 (permalink) Old 04-19-2005, 12:07 PM Thread Starter
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lets talk about AGGRESSIVE riding around others on a TRACK DAY

"i also posted this on there own nesba forum for people to read and hopfully make others talk to those riders when staff members didnt see it happen, and can fully take control of the problems"




let me start off by saying, i love nesba, and all there staff, and like the way they run there show.

what i want to address is what they don't see/ cant see cause there not everywhere ALL the time cause thats impossible!

shit will happen!

Ive been with nesba i think 3-4 years? 2 of which is in advanced.

i have seen, heard all kind of stuffing from time to time, and its been done to me time to time.

SOME riders that are REALLY good, or NOT as good as they think do things above there ability's to create a situation that results in the other person not expecting it to have to make a suttel that to them is a DRASTIC alteration to compensate for that other persons WEAK OVERTAKING.

sometimes it is a DRASTIC reaction that is needed to compensate for that other riders HARSH maneuver.

i guess where i am going with this, is well, for the safety of the of general population of TRACK RIDERS trying to get better, and for those of us like me that try our best to safe passly and clean or don't do it at all. is what can be done by the he said she said that got done to them on the track afterwords.

i know for a FACT Garth, take extreme measures to take these complaints that he see's to talk those riders to clean up there act.

there is only so much 1 person or the staff can do when they didn't see it.

BUT this is the way i look at it, MAYBE i am wrong but this is my view.
no offense to ANYONE.

i know for a fact no matter how safe someone runs a show, they can NOT control every persons actions ALL the time. SOME people will do what they like when they can no matter what.

for those riders that push others off line, do a stupid ass move and almost takes me out.

i do this, i TRY to remember who it was and FIND them and talk to them about what they did so they know who it was, how i didn't like it and how fucked up it could have been.

if they are nice, COOL, hopefully this helps them and others while out on the trackt to be safer.

i go FULL aware into this sport, someone else can take me out by accident, i go full aware into this sport knowing i could crash due to my lack of skill or ability's to control my efforts.
i go full aware into this.

it doesn't give an excuse for someone to do it on purpose and it doesn't excuse to let it slide with me personally.

cause i don't play shit like that, i flush it.


well i hope i shed some light into what other riders should be thinking of going into it, and i can only speak for nesba from what Ive seen threw the years and how they try so hard to make it all work with the VAST majority of skill level.

BUT IN END its EACH RIDER to be COOL with your track mate, TRACK MATE, NOT OPPONENTS IN A RACE!

and i would suggest if someone does something shitty, to 1st take it up to nesba management before using my method of direct conversation to another rider. some people are not confrontational and level headed as me.

remember its about all of us having fun, not ME having fun at your expense.




Last edited by Odysseys; 04-19-2005 at 12:56 PM.
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post #2 of 48 (permalink) Old 04-19-2005, 12:19 PM
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I got passed many times this weekend, often within a foot or two. I am new in Advanced, and not used to it yet, so I usually flinched a bit. Those were OK, but there was one pass that bothered me, and I should have spoken up about it. This one was about 3 inches away, just as I was tipping it in, the guy on the green 636 shows up. If I had continued my tip-in, I would have gone right into him. Instead, I stopped my entry and gently went off the track. I could have stayed on with just a little effort, but it was an easy ride off, so I took the path of least resistance.

I will try to make sure, for everyone's safety, that I do speak up next time it happens.
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post #3 of 48 (permalink) Old 04-19-2005, 12:21 PM
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good post, i just may add to your rep!!

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post #4 of 48 (permalink) Old 04-19-2005, 12:25 PM
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I'd personally be pissed off if someone caused me to go OFF THE TRACK to avoid hitting them.

I think most people think like you do Ken, but I'm sure there are a couple guys that go out there and probably only care about themselves, although I hope I'm completely wrong on that guess. There's a difference between getting 'caught up in the moment' or letting adrenaline effect decision, and purposely riding in a manner unsafe to other riders for the sake of running at 10/tenths.

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post #5 of 48 (permalink) Old 04-19-2005, 12:32 PM Thread Starter
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like i said guys, my personal feelings are differant then most, but you all know it, you want to kick there ass AT THE HEAT OF THE MOMENT, but as adults we need to stay cool, go talk to nesba staff to talk about the issue, or my way, find that guy and talk to him or her, HELL as far as they know they thought it was fine.


by talking about it, both of you can become safer better riders.


NOW matt on the green kawi, he did that to me once too, although i said screw it, tight pass but i wasnt going to move so i pulled my knee up to touch his bike is he got any closer.

THEN once he passed me on the outside of 3, i knew it was his bike by the sound of the engine, and someone was going for a pass, WHAT did i do?

put up a fight? NO cause if someone is trying to pass me on the outside hopfully they are better then me, so i stood in and didnt roll harder on the gas, and then boom here comes matt 2 feet from me, with a SWEET CLEAN PASS, hell i even went up to him, and said thanks for passing me clean, and i respected his skills.

thats something too with all the people complaining about this or that and it wasnt close, i had respect for them watching them and learning my self, and giving me more to think how much more i have to go to become that good!


i was humbeld and thankfull.



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post #6 of 48 (permalink) Old 04-19-2005, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippy
I got passed many times this weekend, often within a foot or two. I am new in Advanced, and not used to it yet, so I usually flinched a bit. Those were OK, but there was one pass that bothered me, and I should have spoken up about it. This one was about 3 inches away, just as I was tipping it in, the guy on the green 636 shows up. If I had continued my tip-in, I would have gone right into him. Instead, I stopped my entry and gently went off the track. I could have stayed on with just a little effort, but it was an easy ride off, so I took the path of least resistance.

I will try to make sure, for everyone's safety, that I do speak up next time it happens.
Hey zippy, i know the pass was close, and being new a pass that close probably startled ya, and you did what you thought was best, but seriously next time remember what garth tells ya first thing in the morning, HOLD YOUR LINE, you may at the most had to slightly check up before continuing on your line. I ran into this often last year, and had to check up hard (lock the brakes) but not once did i not think of finishing the corner, and each time got through with no problems and then at sessions end talked with the guy.
Understand In the advance group there is a Highten level of trust out there, 99% think the rider being passed will hold his line, i mean your in there for a reason right?

Rock on

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post #7 of 48 (permalink) Old 04-19-2005, 12:42 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippy
I would have gone right into him. Instead, I stopped my entry and gently went off the track. I could have stayed on with just a little effort, but it was an easy ride off, so I took the path of least resistance.

I will try to make sure, for everyone's safety, that I do speak up next time it happens.
I know I am new to the site so please do not take the following as coming from someone with a huge ego and something to prove.

If ever in that situation again do not run off the track. Leaving the pavement should only be done if all other options have been explored. Once you get of track a lot of things can happen that are completely out of your control.

Now for the other stuff. You have to expect that racers are going to show up for track days. NESBA has a class for them and it is the advanced class.

Quote:
This group is run much like an open racing practice.
That is straight from the NESBA description of the Advanced class. The racers that are in that group might have a very different veiw of what is close. I had some guys on 1000's try to pass me on the brakes and then end up staying less than 6" from my elbow into the corner. I am used to that type of close quarter passing but I can see where it would "spook" (for lack of a better word) new Advanced riders. No offense to the non racers in Advanced but I had ore problems with them then the racers. They did not want to be behind a SV so I would get motored down the straight then they would park it at the corner entry. It happens and is not real big deal because I expect that to a degree at a track day when I am on a 650. The result is or me to get a clean lap I need to be a little more agressive going into a corner, that does not mean I take chances, but I will take advantage of a small hole.

I think the big thing to remember is that if you are in advanced group you should be there for the right reasons. If you are not comfortable with the close passing or speed then maybe it is not the place for you yet.

** again this is not meant to sound cocky and arrogant, especially form the new guy, I hope it does not come off that way.**
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post #8 of 48 (permalink) Old 04-19-2005, 12:45 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
This group is run much like an open racing practice.



ahhh hum....now i think i was wrong, hell with it then FREE FOR ALL....muhahhahahahaaa



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post #9 of 48 (permalink) Old 04-19-2005, 12:56 PM Thread Starter
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i edited a remark i made in my 1st post to be more "pc" correct



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post #10 of 48 (permalink) Old 04-19-2005, 01:02 PM
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There is something that did occur to me after the fact in regards to going off the track and not holding my line. If someone else was also passing on the outside while Matt was passing on the inside, my move could have caused some real grief to that person. I will try to hold my line better.
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post #11 of 48 (permalink) Old 04-19-2005, 01:08 PM
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As far as getting comfortable with super close passing before you get into Advanced, exactly where would you suppose I would get that experience? You are not even supposed to pass that close in Intermediate. I think it is a matter of an adjustment period that most riders who are not racers need to go through. Even through the day, I got better and more comfortable with it. I still have a ways to go, but I'll get there.
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post #12 of 48 (permalink) Old 04-19-2005, 01:08 PM Thread Starter
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just remember DO your own thing, its up to others to get by you what ever way they can IF they are.

the only time you need to move is when they are already in the spot you WERE going to go because they are faster then you.

sometimes this works out smooth sometimes it doesnt.


most of all have fun, its REALLY sweet when you were about to dive into T1 and some guy passes you and your right on his ass falling in the apex and your inchs from his ass. DA FLOW i call i call it.

sometimes STAYING that close thinking they are better then you is a mistake as you now are trail breaking way late cause he is slowing down and YOU are faster then him in the turns.

its a risky sport, reading peoples moves and making the flow takes some work, but if people just back off alittle more then they THINK they need, this leave more room for adjustments!





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post #13 of 48 (permalink) Old 04-19-2005, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippy
I think it is a matter of an adjustment period that most riders who are not racers need to go through. Even through the day, I got better and more comfortable with it. I still have a ways to go, but I'll get there.

bingo! it will come!

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post #14 of 48 (permalink) Old 04-19-2005, 01:14 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippy
As far as getting comfortable with super close passing before you get into Advanced, exactly where would you suppose I would get that experience? You are not even supposed to pass that close in Intermediate. I think it is a matter of an adjustment period that most riders who are not racers need to go through. Even through the day, I got better and more comfortable with it. I still have a ways to go, but I'll get there.
I think the majority of it is being comfartable on the bike at speed, and being comfy on the track. No one expects you to be automatically comfortable with "close" passes but you should be comfortable with bikes being close to you if you are going to ride in advanced.
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post #15 of 48 (permalink) Old 04-19-2005, 01:16 PM Thread Starter
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learning to get passed?

let me put it this way, when its done right, you dont need to adjust.
infact you sit there thinking YEAH SWEET pass.

close passes, stuff passes, outside passes.

for me anyway since i am not racing, i give it up to them for saftey sake.

for my saftey as much more theres "i dont want to crash into another rider, let alone crash!" so i give it up.


now threw the years getting passed by better riders them me, and feeling comfortable with it? i guess "and maybe this is just me" you throw cation to the wind.

its like this "example" if i am turning into to a corner, someone makes a inside pass, and i THINK someone else is trying to stuff there ass in there?

i say fuck it, and turn in CAUSE i do NOT see any part of a bike in the side of me. thats why i say I HAVE TO DO what i have to do for my line!

sometimes i even hear another rider behind as 1 just passed me on the inside, and i might be holding him up, BUT you know what? TO BAD pass me else where. if he isnt in there already by the time i am cranked over, to bad for him.

balls and some muscle pushing is a part of it i think, but in ALL SAFETY is the issue when DA FLOWING with others is involved.

IF not your a rolling road hazzard cause your freaking out moving all over the place while people are trying to pass you. and there is times when you want to mess someone up with them thinking they have a lock on your weak points and you change it up, but thats another story.



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post #16 of 48 (permalink) Old 04-19-2005, 01:20 PM
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I did have that happen many times too! It is fun sticking tight when someone gets a pass on you. I used to kind of let them go ahead and build a gap between us. Now, I am starting to stick tight and FLOW. That is just fun!

Depending on how they did the pass, sometimes it takes them a few seconds to gather themselves up again and get their pace back, so you have to watch how they are doing and adjust accordingly.
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post #17 of 48 (permalink) Old 04-19-2005, 01:20 PM Thread Starter
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also too, all this talk about getting passed, leads into something else, PASSING SOMEONE ELSE.

i suggest if your not racing your pass should NOT affect that other rider, no matter how close it is, 6inchs or more.


i have had guys pass me and when i am done turning in, i am on there ass, then there is other times i am passing others and yeah i am close but i made the choice to pass and making up your mind and not pussying out is very important cause then your gonna mess up you and him, by not doing it good.



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post #18 of 48 (permalink) Old 04-19-2005, 01:57 PM
 
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Being new to the I group was a whole new world. Seems to be alot of consideration to each other that wasnt apparent in B. In I there was fast due to smooth. In B there was fast due to desperation, pass as many as possible before you get stuck behind them. I learned alot on Sunday.
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post #19 of 48 (permalink) Old 04-19-2005, 02:19 PM
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I think a lot of this is just what has been said, EVERYONE tends to freak a bit when they first get used to being passed closely. After a while you will just get comfortable with it, and then instead of picking up your line at all, you'll just stay there and trust me it's a cool feeling the first time you go through a corner 2 wide with comfort.

My first practice session, on my first race weekend, I got my outside knee clipped by someone passing me on the outside in the bus stop at Blackhawk, luckily I didn't even realize it until it was over otherwise I might have freaked. After havin that happen, and realizing that oh wait neither of us crashed, or ran off the track, it upped my comfort level a lot. It still scared me sometimes when someone was unexpected coming up the inside, but that happens less too as you get more comfortable. Why? Because you have more of your $10 (Keith Code reference) left over doing the same speed, so the wheel that was right beside you but you never noticed before is now obvious.

It's a lot of little things, and most of it comes with time. But to the effect of close passing, if NESBA is running the "A" as quoted where it is a race practice, part of race practice is, practicing close passes. I'm not talking Rossi vs. Sete, but close safe clean passes. Most times there is more rooom than you first think there is.
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post #20 of 48 (permalink) Old 04-19-2005, 02:32 PM
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The speed differences in the advanced group is just a recipe for disaster. You can't expect a racer to leave his racer mentality at home when he does trackdays and you also you can't expect a track day rider to treat it like a race practice. I suppose it's less fair for the trackday riders since racers for the most part are used to pulling off aggressive passes and riding in less than ideal situations. With that being said, I'm always more comfortable running race practice than doing trackdays because of the trust factor. Most racers run at full bore all the time and if you get passed it's because the person doing the passing is either faster than you or you left the door open. I've passed many a track day riders who suddenly speed up once you show them a wheel and this is what makes it dangerous. Why wasn't that person going that fast to start with? I also learned to never catch a draft at track days unless you want to die.
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post #21 of 48 (permalink) Old 04-19-2005, 02:39 PM
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I also learned to never catch a draft at track days unless you want to die.


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post #22 of 48 (permalink) Old 04-19-2005, 02:41 PM
 
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I also learned to never catch a draft at track days unless you want to die.
Ain't that the truth. That is funny
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post #23 of 48 (permalink) Old 04-19-2005, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
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I also learned to never catch a draft at track days unless you want to die.

I think I have something to do with you thinking that way Mr. Kwak.

My Greatest apologies!

About the passing, rider Etiquette, and aggressive riding in the Racer group topic. If you are not prepared to be in a race environment (Like the description of the Advanced group says in the NESBA handbook) then ride in the intermediate group.

It's not worth it to alot of the serious guys out there to practice unless they can push themselves to the limit they need to.

If they can't really go out there and practice its not worth the time on the motor, the gas, the clutch or any time they are spending making adjustments to get ready to go racing. I'm sure those guys want to go out there and hit it at 10/10ths hard and fast.

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post #24 of 48 (permalink) Old 04-19-2005, 02:57 PM
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[QUOTE=Grasshopper]I think I have something to do with you thinking that way Mr. Kwak.

My Greatest apologies!

QUOTE]

Nah... I definately crapped my shorts that time but you're not the reason Mr. Nick
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post #25 of 48 (permalink) Old 04-19-2005, 02:59 PM
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You guys are freakin me out!

On my first day should I expect any of this kinda stuff? Obviously I'll be in beginner. But I hate to even think about what I'll act like if someone shoves me off line, hits me etc.... Does this shit happen in beginner? Is there any reason why faster guys would get stuck in beginner? I believe I read that passing is only allowed on the straights, do they enforce this?

I am comfortable with close passing etc on dirt, but being on the pavement track is a totally new thing for me and I must admit I'm a bit nervous about the thought of someone else screwing up my day for me.
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post #26 of 48 (permalink) Old 04-19-2005, 02:59 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grasshopper
I think I have something to do with you thinking that way Mr. Kwak.

My Greatest apologies!

About the passing, rider Etiquette, and aggressive riding in the Racer group topic. If you are not prepared to be in a race environment (Like the description of the Advanced group says in the NESBA handbook) then ride in the intermediate group.

It's not worth it to alot of the serious guys out there to practice unless they can push themselves to the limit they need to.

If they can't really go out there and practice its not worth the time on the motor, the gas, the clutch or any time they are spending making adjustments to get ready to go racing. I'm sure those guys want to go out there and hit it at 10/10ths hard and fast.


i am TOTALLY with you on that, what ME personally and some others are maybe thinking is when those not so skillfull people make a STUFF pass where you need to GTF outta there in order not to ride over them or gt t-boned by them, NOT a close 6 inch pass on the side.

this is A riders that YES you better get use to it, cause if you cant run with the big dogs get the fuck off the porch, BUT getting stuff nasty isnt cool, bone head move is a bonehead move.




Last edited by Odysseys; 04-19-2005 at 03:01 PM.
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post #27 of 48 (permalink) Old 04-19-2005, 03:00 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirtbiker
You guys are freakin me out!

On my first day should I expect any of this kinda stuff? Obviously I'll be in beginner. But I hate to even think about what I'll act like if someone shoves me off line, hits me etc.... Does this shit happen in beginner? Is there any reason why faster guys would get stuck in beginner? I believe I read that passing is only allowed on the straights, do they enforce this?

I am comfortable with close passing etc on dirt, but being on the pavement track is a totally new thing for me and I must admit I'm a bit nervous about the thought of someone else screwing up my day for me.


this topic has now moved into A group/racing it seems but the point of passing safely remains.


NONE of this BETTER not be going on in the B group, BUT there is shit that goes on in B group that we all learn from, good and bad.



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post #28 of 48 (permalink) Old 04-19-2005, 03:05 PM
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What's the bad? I assume I'll get stuck behind people/people will get stuck behind me, but am I going to be getting run over by some fool who's had his liter bike for a week?
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post #29 of 48 (permalink) Old 04-19-2005, 03:09 PM Thread Starter
YO MAMA
 
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Join Date: Apr 2002
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Sportbike: 2010 Electra Glide Police Edition 103cu
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nahh they usually freak out and run off the turn


honestly, who knows but like what i said usually happens, just like the streets the squids weed themselfs out sometimes.

but accidents do happen.

but hey, your in it for the same reason i am, the drugs and women!

live life on the edge or drive a volvo.



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post #30 of 48 (permalink) Old 04-19-2005, 03:10 PM
Special Agent Lance Boyle
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirtbiker
What's the bad? I assume I'll get stuck behind people/people will get stuck behind me, but am I going to be getting run over by some fool who's had his liter bike for a week?
Sit the first session of the day out, let the other groups dry the dew off the track for you. That also gives the over anxious a chance to run some adrenaline out. You'll have plenty of track time even skipping the AM.

<--------Sticky Nicky
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