Putnam Park - Turn 4 - HEY Read this ! - Chicagoland Sportbikes
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post #1 of 54 (permalink) Old 10-12-2006, 01:33 PM Thread Starter
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Putnam Park - Turn 4 - HEY Read this !

Ahhh Putnam Park.........



All right turns except for dead-bear and turn 4.

Turn 4 is a nasty, slippery off-camber turn that catches and flips motorcycles.


On cold days ( like this coming weekend ) it is particularly
nasty because you have been off the left side of the tire for so long.....

You RAIL through 1, then 2 then 3 building confidence so you carry good
speed and flick it into four, WHAM ! lose the front and wad your bike bad.



Lost a lot of bikes in T4 last year in the cold.



PAY ATTENTION, the tires will not warn you !


Tom

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post #2 of 54 (permalink) Old 10-12-2006, 01:34 PM
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Nice info!

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post #3 of 54 (permalink) Old 10-12-2006, 01:49 PM Thread Starter
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In fact......


Here is a photo for your consideration.


Tom
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File Type: jpg Putnam_Turn_4_v2.JPG (40.3 KB, 180 views)

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post #4 of 54 (permalink) Old 10-12-2006, 01:57 PM
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Yes heed this advice... I didn't listen last year and crashed out in turn 4 the 1st session after 5 laps when I thought it was all good to go. You have to wait for the track itself to warm up before railing through there, it's not good enough just to have warmed up tires.

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post #5 of 54 (permalink) Old 10-12-2006, 01:59 PM
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I really like turn 4, I have no idea why I like lefts but they always seem more comfortable to me. but yes it is dangerous.




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post #6 of 54 (permalink) Old 10-12-2006, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTony
I have no idea why I like lefts but they always seem more comfortable to me.
In slalom waterskiing, you refer to that as your "on side."

If you ain't with us, then it's just bad news.
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post #7 of 54 (permalink) Old 10-12-2006, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLARNEY
In fact......


Here is a photo for your consideration.


Tom
Thanx Tom, that was very helpful

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post #8 of 54 (permalink) Old 10-12-2006, 02:28 PM
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Good info

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrock
In slalom water skiing, you refer to that as your "on side."

TWINK will appreciate that reference to waterskiing....

Be safe out there

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post #9 of 54 (permalink) Old 10-12-2006, 02:31 PM
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TWINK will appreciate that reference to waterskiing....
Thanks for the correction.

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post #10 of 54 (permalink) Old 10-12-2006, 02:34 PM
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just so you guys know.

i have 2 rear dunlop take off's "just qualifying laps on the tires"
and 2 front mediums for sale.

the reason why i was holding on to these tires for THIS event that i cant make now is well, my bike is sold.

but this weather was the reason why i got these.

they are 195's series split compound 1 side hard, 1 side medium compound.


so on putnam this will help big time as the lefts are not fully heated like the right, but now you got medium on the left and hard on the right.

if anyone that is going wants to buy them off of me, let me know.



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post #11 of 54 (permalink) Old 10-12-2006, 02:50 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTony
I really like turn 4, I have no idea why I like lefts but they always seem more comfortable to me. but yes it is dangerous.

a LOT of riders like lefts......


It's usually a form issue.... holding too much weight up with your arms.

When you go left.... your left ( lower ) arem has a good grip.

When you go right your right ( lower / throttle ) hand has to be looser to
work the throttle so you feel less comfortable hanging off.



If you fix your lower body problem and become more comfortable with
a loose grip on the bars this problem goes away.




Tom



Want to take a test ?

Instead of lapping with your usual death-grip on the bars place the
grips between the tips of your fingers and the tips of your thumbs while
cornering....... unless your tight in the lower body, this is impossible.




Tom

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post #12 of 54 (permalink) Old 10-12-2006, 04:37 PM
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I'm going to take the morning sessions with the same mindset I did in the wet at ACC. Work on body position to minimize lean angle, and work on being smooth smooth smooth.

Jeff
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post #13 of 54 (permalink) Old 10-20-2006, 07:34 PM

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrock
In slalom waterskiing, you refer to that as your "on side."
Ahhh a fellow water dog. I used to show ski with the Aquanuts in twin lakes.

OH yea... and Tom
You didn't say anything about dragging hard parts in 4. Hard parts are closer to the ground in off camber turns. Thus if you get a peg down and the rear lifts, you might think the rear is moving ever so slightly. Then when you ever so gently let off the gas, just a tiny bit, your front end will wash in a beautiful slow fashion. Putting you gently on your ass........

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post #14 of 54 (permalink) Old 10-20-2006, 09:19 PM Thread Starter
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Uh..... dude.... don't tell me you crashed in 4 and I missed it.





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post #15 of 54 (permalink) Old 10-20-2006, 09:48 PM

 
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Yeppers. Late on Saturday. I was concerned about grip, and let my form slide.

It was right after Garth said. Don't crash in turn 4!!!!!!

I didn't crash because of the cold. But I did crash. I ran over and started her up as soon as I stopped sliding. I tried to wave off the red flags, but they were already flying. I may have been off the track and in the pits before the last bike that got the red flag. But none the less. I'm a dork.

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post #16 of 54 (permalink) Old 10-28-2006, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLARNEY
In fact......


Here is a photo for your consideration.


Tom
Exhibit A in support of the argument that Zippy can actually SMOKE you.

NESBA #95 A
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post #17 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-03-2007, 08:46 PM
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Bump. Good info for the weekend

NESBA - Seems to be missing, can someone direct me where to find it?
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post #18 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-03-2007, 09:09 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by emoor View Post
Exhibit A in support of the argument that Zippy can actually SMOKE you.

You're killin me Eddie..... just killin me.


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post #19 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-03-2007, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLARNEY View Post
a LOT of riders like lefts......


It's usually a form issue.... holding too much weight up with your arms.

When you go left.... your left ( lower ) arem has a good grip.

When you go right your right ( lower / throttle ) hand has to be looser to
work the throttle so you feel less comfortable hanging off.



If you fix your lower body problem and become more comfortable with
a loose grip on the bars this problem goes away.




Tom



Want to take a test ?

Instead of lapping with your usual death-grip on the bars place the
grips between the tips of your fingers and the tips of your thumbs while
cornering....... unless your tight in the lower body, this is impossible.




Tom
That makes a lot of sense Tom, I will pay more attention to it this weekend. Thanks! Hopefully this new seat will help, with the old one it was so slippery I felt like I was falling off the bike. This one is much grippier, this was most assuredly part of the grip problem I have as I used to notice my wrists getting sore from hanging on.




HDTony.... Damn glad to meet you!

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post #20 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-03-2007, 09:25 PM
BSB > WSBK > MotoGP
 
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Anyone who crashes in turn 4 owes Garth $100...new NESBA rule!

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post #21 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-03-2007, 09:31 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTony View Post
That makes a lot of sense Tom, I will pay more attention to it this weekend. Thanks! Hopefully this new seat will help, with the old one it was so slippery I felt like I was falling off the bike. This one is much grippier, this was most assuredly part of the grip problem I have as I used to notice my wrists getting sore from hanging on.


Make sure that your inside toe is aimed at the apex, otherwise your leg has
a hard time supporting you securly. Also plant your outside thigh into the crease in the tank.

When this is working well, you should be comfortable on the bike with just
your fingertips on the handlebars.

I'll be down mid-day saturday, let's hook up and I'll give you soem form coaching.


Tom

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post #22 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-03-2007, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLARNEY View Post
Make sure that your inside toe is aimed at the apex, otherwise your leg has
a hard time supporting you securly. Also plant your outside thigh into the crease in the tank.

When this is working well, you should be comfortable on the bike with just
your fingertips on the handlebars.

I'll be down mid-day saturday, let's hook up and I'll give you soem form coaching.


Tom
I would love some coaching, thanks Tom. Just look for the black Duc with the yellow tank (#47)

The foot thing surprises me, what your saying felt more natural to me, but everyone kept telling me to get my toes back in.




HDTony.... Damn glad to meet you!

Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.

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post #23 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-03-2007, 09:42 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTony View Post
I would love some coaching, thanks Tom. Just look for the black Duc with the yellow tank (#47)

The foot thing surprises me, what your saying felt more natural to me, but everyone kept telling me to get my toes back in.

Ball of the foot on the peg, heel in against the frame, toe to the apex.



Try this....


stand with your knees slightly bent and your feet pointed straight ahead.

Now reach with your right hand and try to touch a spot on the floor
that is two feet ahead and two feet to the right of your toe.

Now turn your right foot 45 degrees out and try again.

Natural right ?

Your leg can now support your weight and your knee doesn't get
all jacked up.


I'll look for you saturday PM.


Tom

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post #24 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-03-2007, 09:44 PM
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Ok now my wife and my dog are looking at me funny




HDTony.... Damn glad to meet you!

Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.

- Ronald Reagan

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post #25 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-03-2007, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTony View Post
Ok now my wife and my dog are looking at me funny
So are the rest of us!!!!!!!!!

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post #26 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-03-2007, 10:04 PM
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So are the rest of us!!!!!!!!!
Like thats anything new




HDTony.... Damn glad to meet you!

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post #27 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-04-2007, 07:19 AM Thread Starter
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heh heh heh.....


Tom

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post #28 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-04-2007, 09:32 AM
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Good coaching Tom, the only thing I would add is that the FARTHER FORWARD I can get up against the tank then the easier it is for me to keep the weight off the bars, keep my inside elbow dropped, turn my chest into the corner and drop my head into the corner and lead through the turn with my forehead.

When I get tired, I tend to sink back farther into the seat. This in turn causes me to start to carry a lot of weight on the outside of my palms, with my elbow out and head held too high over the bike. Pretty soon my hands will start to go numb from the lack of circulation <-- THIS IS A HUGE INDICATOR that I am not keeping the weight off my hands.

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post #29 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-04-2007, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronhix View Post
When I get tired, I tend to sink back farther into the seat. This in turn causes me to start to carry a lot of weight on the outside of my palms, with my elbow out and head held too high over the bike. Pretty soon my hands will start to go numb from the lack of circulation <-- THIS IS A HUGE INDICATOR that I am not keeping the weight off my hands.
It is very interesting that we all have cues that tell us something is going on. Smart guys like Ron are able to do the dectective work and figure out why and how to adjust.

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post #30 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-04-2007, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5AXIS View Post
It is very interesting that we all have cues that tell us something is going on. Smart guys like Ron are able to do the dectective work and figure out why and how to adjust.
Rep sent for calling me smart.

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