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post #1 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-14-2012, 08:51 PM Thread Starter
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isn't there better things to worry about?

this is getting unreal..

http://colorlines.com/archives/2012/...h_control.html

seriously.. how bout dealing with REAL issues not this fucking religious crap.

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post #2 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-14-2012, 08:56 PM
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I'm sick of this shit....

When are we going to act like educated, enlightened people and thus realize that religion has no place in the politics of a civilized society...

If you want to be religious, talk to imaginary people, praise jeebus, whatever, I don't care. Just remeber that your stick can only reach as far as the tip of my nose. As of late, both Republicans and Democrates are equally guilty in attempting to run peoples' lives as they see fit. Religion is just the tip of the iceberg.

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post #3 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-14-2012, 09:23 PM
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It's a real issue if it passes.

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post #4 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-15-2012, 03:55 AM
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Shouldn't employers be able to fire you for whatever they feel like? I mean, they were nice enough to hire you, and if they don't like what you're doing....

It says IN GOD WE TRUST on our currency.
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post #5 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-15-2012, 06:04 AM
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The govt should not be able to tell you what religion to practice, if any, or make you violate your religious beliefs, period. If you want to be a godless heathen, fine. Just keep it to your godamn self. Quit trying to be some atheist evangelizer.

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post #6 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-15-2012, 07:40 AM
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How stupid.
To the rest of the world we must seem like that eccentric wealthy relative that every family has, so much potential and wealth but fuckin nuts worrying about petty things.
We are cutting edge and advanced in so many ways, ironically we were the home of the sexual revolution in the 60's and it seems that ever since there are people that want to bring us back to the 1300's. Seeing sex as dirty and wrong and trying to put a bunch of old men in charge of womens issues.

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post #7 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-15-2012, 01:27 PM
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It's a real issue if it passes.
Not really...after quickly scanning the bill, its allowing employers to opt out of paying for contraceptives. It's the ACLU that's running the scare tactic about how you have to expose your medical condition, the reasons you need the medicine, and that you can be fired because of this law.

HIPPA already protects individuals from this type of action, but it's still the employer's right to what types of benefits and coverage they want to provide, and if this includes contraceptives, viagra, etc., it's their choice.

It's also the individual's choice to use they type of medication they need/want, but in this case it will have to come out of his or her own pocket.

Look, I can appreciate this. I was young too, I felt just like you. Hated authority, hated all my bosses, thought they were full of shit. Look, it's like they say, if you're not a rebel by the age of 20, you got no heart, but if you haven't turned establishment by 30, you've got no brains. Because there are no story-book romances, no fairy-tale endings. So before you run out and change the world, ask yourself, "What do you really want?"
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post #8 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-15-2012, 02:51 PM
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The headline is bogus and completely false. Designed to instill a bias before the facts are known. This bill DOES NOT give employers the right to fire employees if they use birth control. What it DOES do is gives employers (like the Catholic Church) the right to opt out of paying for contraceptives which are contrary to their basic beliefs. It in NO WAY affects womens health because it IS NOT making contraceptive unavailable to ANYONE who wants to use them ...EVEN CATHOLICS WHO HAVE DECIDED TO NOT FOLLOW THE TEACHINGS OF THEIR OWN BELIEF!!! All this bill is doing is removing ANY government mandate that requires employers to pay for contraceptives.
Bottom line...You want to use birth control pills ...you PAY for them. Contraception is not a treatment for disease...you wanna play...YOU PAY! They used to call it personal responsibility... it's NOT a womans health issue !
My wife used birth control pills at a point in our marriage...for the time she used them we paid for them...They cost us about $6 a month at the time...from what I hear they're running about 9 or 10 bucks a month now...not exactly a hardship for anyone!
Where did this idea that EVERYTHING even remotely related to medicine should be free?
Good for the Arizona state house for recognizing that no one should be mandated to pay for something against their religious beliefs (unlike the current POTUS and his party) and that personal responsibility needs to make a comeback in this country!

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post #9 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-15-2012, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by OldTimeBiker View Post
The headline is bogus and completely false. Designed to instill a bias before the facts are known. This bill DOES NOT give employers the right to fire employees if they use birth control. What it DOES do is gives employers (like the Catholic Church) the right to opt out of paying for contraceptives which are contrary to their basic beliefs. It in NO WAY affects womens health because it IS NOT making contraceptive unavailable to ANYONE who wants to use them ...EVEN CATHOLICS WHO HAVE DECIDED TO NOT FOLLOW THE TEACHINGS OF THEIR OWN BELIEF!!! All this bill is doing is removing ANY government mandate that requires employers to pay for contraceptives.
Bottom line...You want to use birth control pills ...you PAY for them. Contraception is not a treatment for disease...you wanna play...YOU PAY! They used to call it personal responsibility... it's NOT a womans health issue !
My wife used birth control pills at a point in our marriage...for the time she used them we paid for them...They cost us about $6 a month at the time...from what I hear they're running about 9 or 10 bucks a month now...not exactly a hardship for anyone!
Where did this idea that EVERYTHING even remotely related to medicine should be free?
Good for the Arizona state house for recognizing that no one should be mandated to pay for something against their religious beliefs (unlike the current POTUS and his party) and that personal responsibility needs to make a comeback in this country!
Agreed. Well said mate.
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post #10 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-15-2012, 03:41 PM
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our country seems to be preoccupied with how other people fuck

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post #11 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-15-2012, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldTimeBiker View Post
The headline is bogus and completely false. Designed to instill a bias before the facts are known. This bill DOES NOT give employers the right to fire employees if they use birth control. What it DOES do is gives employers (like the Catholic Church) the right to opt out of paying for contraceptives which are contrary to their basic beliefs. It in NO WAY affects womens health because it IS NOT making contraceptive unavailable to ANYONE who wants to use them ...EVEN CATHOLICS WHO HAVE DECIDED TO NOT FOLLOW THE TEACHINGS OF THEIR OWN BELIEF!!! All this bill is doing is removing ANY government mandate that requires employers to pay for contraceptives.
Bottom line...You want to use birth control pills ...you PAY for them. Contraception is not a treatment for disease...you wanna play...YOU PAY! They used to call it personal responsibility... it's NOT a womans health issue !
My wife used birth control pills at a point in our marriage...for the time she used them we paid for them...They cost us about $6 a month at the time...from what I hear they're running about 9 or 10 bucks a month now...not exactly a hardship for anyone!
Where did this idea that EVERYTHING even remotely related to medicine should be free?
Good for the Arizona state house for recognizing that no one should be mandated to pay for something against their religious beliefs (unlike the current POTUS and his party) and that personal responsibility needs to make a comeback in this country!
Annnnnnd cooler heads prevail




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post #12 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-15-2012, 04:57 PM Thread Starter
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our country seems to be preoccupied with how other people fuck
+1

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post #13 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-15-2012, 07:43 PM
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post #14 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-15-2012, 08:43 PM
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Contraception is not a treatment for disease...
Except that in some cases, BC pills ARE used to prevent disease. They're one of the few things that can possibly help prevent ovarian cancer, (which is extremely hard to diagnose and treat, and is usually not curable) and can also cut down on the occurrence of abnormal ovarian cysts. In some cases they're used to regulate difficult menstrual cycles, endometriosis, and some simply take them as acne treatment. Not every woman uses the pill as birth control.

Why is Viagra covered? It's not just for boners.


How do y'all feel about this one?

http://www.620wtmj.com/news/local/142161793.html

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post #15 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-15-2012, 08:58 PM
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Gosh I so want to comment but I'm trying my best to stay out of political threads.

When do we start talking about that non story that the media is pushing to try to draw a divide between the masses. How about Mitt and his dog??? Can we do that next?

Sorry. Couldn't help myself and to clear up any possible confusion this post is not in response to the one by Truckstop
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post #16 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-15-2012, 09:16 PM
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Not really...after quickly scanning the bill, its allowing employers to opt out of paying for contraceptives. It's the ACLU that's running the scare tactic about how you have to expose your medical condition, the reasons you need the medicine, and that you can be fired because of this law.

HIPPA already protects individuals from this type of action, but it's still the employer's right to what types of benefits and coverage they want to provide, and if this includes contraceptives, viagra, etc., it's their choice.

It's also the individual's choice to use they type of medication they need/want, but in this case it will have to come out of his or her own pocket.
I know, the headline is deceptive.
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post #17 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-16-2012, 12:26 AM
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Except that in some cases, BC pills ARE used to prevent disease. They're one of the few things that can possibly help prevent ovarian cancer, (which is extremely hard to diagnose and treat, and is usually not curable) and can also cut down on the occurrence of abnormal ovarian cysts. In some cases they're used to regulate difficult menstrual cycles, endometriosis, and some simply take them as acne treatment. Not every woman uses the pill as birth control.

Why is Viagra covered? It's not just for boners.


How do y'all feel about this one?

http://www.620wtmj.com/news/local/142161793.html
We need to be smart about what should and shouldn't be covered under the insurance plans whether they're private, provided or part of a government plan. Viagra is covered because it deals with a physical malfunction but maybe it shouldn't be. I bet most men would tell you they feel same way about that.
Point taken. If contraceptives are being prescribed for the conditions you cite (comparitively rare in the overall amount of prescriptions for BCP's), then maybe they should be covered in those cases. It wouldn't be the first time prescriptions would be covered for the treatment of a specific disease or condition and not covered for other uses. Both oral contraceptives and erectile dysfunction medication is cheap enough that for whatever reason they are prescribed it wouldn't be a burden for patients to pay for it themselves...A little personal responsibility to keep the costs of and to the plans down and leave room for more of the resources available to go for those real expensive meds that some really sick people cannot live without!
What happens is if you make all the small stuff free there isn't enough to pay for the big stuff and that's where they cut and too many in need will go without. It's one of the sad realities of free government healthcare and they'd rather have us bickering over the small stuff than seeing that reality!

Please don't buy into the rhetoric that this is a gender against gender issue or that one group or party is waging a war against women or a crusade against sex. It's subterfuge. A coverup..a distraction to divert our attention from the real issues that are truly important!

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post #18 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-16-2012, 07:28 AM Thread Starter
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who gets to decide then if the drug is for a medical reason or for birth control? Your boss? ummm I dont want my company involved in my medical decisions, just as much as i dont want the government.

plus dont you think insurance companies would rather pay $9/month for birth control vs the tens of thousands of dollars it will have to pay out once another dependent is on the policy? plus the cost of the pregnancy it's self?

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post #19 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-16-2012, 07:50 AM
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who gets to decide then if the drug is for a medical reason or for birth control? Your boss? ummm I dont want my company involved in my medical decisions, just as much as i dont want the government.

plus dont you think insurance companies would rather pay $9/month for birth control vs the tens of thousands of dollars it will have to pay out once another dependent is on the policy? plus the cost of the pregnancy it's self?
Completely agree.

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post #20 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-16-2012, 08:32 AM
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Agreed Mopar, I dont think it should be up to an employer to dictate medical need. What's next? No, you can't have this other potentially life saving medication because it's too expensive?

I haven't looked for numbers, and anecdotes are not data, but it sure seems like I know an awful lot of infertile women who either have mostly destroyed ovaries, or uteruses rendered useless from scar tissue. Have you ever known a woman who had cramps so bad they made her vomit, or bleed so heavily she couldn't leave the house?

Also agree that the cost of hormonal birth control is a total bargain as preventative medicine in comparison to the cost of a pregnancy, or a surgery to get a hysterectomy. Not including the cost directly to the employer for time off of work.

I'm not catholic, is the core of the issue that sex is only for procreation?

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post #21 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-16-2012, 08:57 AM
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Please don't buy into the rhetoric that this is a gender against gender issue or that one group or party is waging a war against women or a crusade against sex. It's subterfuge. A coverup..a distraction to divert our attention from the real issues that are truly important!
I don't think you hate women.

I do think that with the fight to kill off Planned Parenthood, get the pill pulled from insurance coverage, and the ridiculous bill in Wisconsin to equate single parenthood with child abuse, and politicians telling women in abusive relationships to stick with it for the kids, all contributes to an environment where women are starting to get a little defensive.

And then stuff like this happens: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...googlenews_wsj

On the other hand, I do think this is all stuff that should be left alone, and there are other issues that are truly important.

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post #22 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-16-2012, 09:00 AM
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who gets to decide then if the drug is for a medical reason or for birth control? Your boss? ummm I dont want my company involved in my medical decisions, just as much as i dont want the government.

You have the right not to work for that company if you don't agree with their values.
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post #23 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-16-2012, 09:03 AM
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What's the cost of birth control pills without insurance?
Wal-mart sells them for $10/month (but their a big greedy heartless corporation that's screwing the mom and pop pharmacies selling the same product for 10x's as much...their evil!!...oh wait, different topic. Carry on! )

Look, I can appreciate this. I was young too, I felt just like you. Hated authority, hated all my bosses, thought they were full of shit. Look, it's like they say, if you're not a rebel by the age of 20, you got no heart, but if you haven't turned establishment by 30, you've got no brains. Because there are no story-book romances, no fairy-tale endings. So before you run out and change the world, ask yourself, "What do you really want?"
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post #24 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-16-2012, 09:06 AM
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ummm I dont want my company involved in my medical decisions, just as much as i dont want the government.
on the other side do you have the right to tell your employer what benefits they are required to provide?

Look, I can appreciate this. I was young too, I felt just like you. Hated authority, hated all my bosses, thought they were full of shit. Look, it's like they say, if you're not a rebel by the age of 20, you got no heart, but if you haven't turned establishment by 30, you've got no brains. Because there are no story-book romances, no fairy-tale endings. So before you run out and change the world, ask yourself, "What do you really want?"
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post #25 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-16-2012, 09:47 AM
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This is going off tangent a little bit.... but when I had to deal with my husband's self-insured employer who basically said "health insurance is health insurance, not accident insurance" and gutted their policy, we did actually eventually find him a different employer after a year of not being able to ride motorcycles, or any other form of recreational motorsport.

We were lucky though, many of the guys there are the only income for the family, and the industry wouldn't support a mass exodus from that company. Just not enough jobs.

One interesting thing about that gutting. They did cut out some "health insurance" pieces (including birth control) and noted that a dependent's pregnancy was no longer covered. So if your teenage daughter gets knocked up, you're out of luck. They also noted that it's federally mandated that your spouse's pregnancies would still be covered. That made me wonder how far they would have gone if that wasn't protected by law. Once you start cutting stuff out... where does it end?

I wouldn't have been so mad about it, if they had offered an alternate policy we could pay extra for, because really, riding motorbikes is a completely frivolous, supurfluous, self indulgent thing right? But then again, we're lucky we could afford it.

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post #26 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-16-2012, 11:02 AM
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post #27 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-16-2012, 12:17 PM
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who gets to decide then if the drug is for a medical reason or for birth control? Your boss? ummm I dont want my company involved in my medical decisions, just as much as i dont want the government.

plus dont you think insurance companies would rather pay $9/month for birth control vs the tens of thousands of dollars it will have to pay out once another dependent is on the policy? plus the cost of the pregnancy it's self?
You're overcomplicating this...The prescribing doctor makes the determination just as in many other scenarios where certain meds are covered for one purpose and not another. It's that simple.

EDIT: Actually that's one of the biggest problems in this whole issue...the doctor /patient relationship is being completely ignored and disregarded!

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Last edited by OldTimeBiker; 03-16-2012 at 12:30 PM.
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post #28 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-16-2012, 12:33 PM
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Last edited by elroy121; 03-16-2012 at 01:35 PM.
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post #29 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-16-2012, 12:48 PM
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Not sure of the bias of this study, but the percentages listed here for non-contraceptive use of the pill is actually higher than I thought it would be:

http://www.guttmacher.org/media/nr/2.../15/index.html

Also, I'm still wondering what the issue is beyond recreational sex, since the primary function of hormonal birth control is that when used properly, it prevents ovulation and the release of an egg in the first place, and impedes the progress of sperm. That's the whole reason it's used for problems with the ovaries - no ovulation means no cysts, which form normally every time a woman releases an egg. Yes, it also thins the lining of the uterus to prevent implantation, but if you suck at remembering to take it to the point where you're still ovulating, you should be using a back up form of contraception anyway. But is that it? The small chance an egg might be fertilized and then ejected because life begins at conception?

Look, I realize I'm not going to change anyone's mind here, which is why I usually stay out of political threads on this board, but I did feel the need to make sure everyone is aware of the importance of hormonal medications beyond contraception.

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post #30 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-16-2012, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elroy121 View Post
if you think christian religios crap is onerous , just wait till the muzzies start weilding real influence as their numbers here grow and they bring sharia, which is defended by those who dislike christian influence the most , suicidal politics
sounds like a spambot language.

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