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post #1 of 88 (permalink) Old 03-26-2012, 11:18 AM Thread Starter
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Supreme Court Healthcare Decision

In light of the upcoming hearing on 'Obamacare'...

If your child, spouse or another relative has a precondition that will make them ineligible for health insurance, how do you go about getting them insured?
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post #2 of 88 (permalink) Old 03-26-2012, 11:20 AM
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Wow, talk about a loaded question.

...and don't think for a second that preconditions will not be considered in either public or private insurance. No matter how it's sliced, it's insurance. They have to cover their ass. That said, the merits of a "precondition" definitely need to be changed.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacitus
In a state where corruption abounds, laws must be very numerous.
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post #3 of 88 (permalink) Old 03-26-2012, 11:30 AM
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Currently, many uninsurable health conditions are supported or mandated by state coverage.

Pre-condition definitions right now are utter BS though and cut out folks that have had good coverages in the past.

There needs to be some balance in the equation, and the current program has problems as well. The new programs appear to be even worse.

Let's just get the same health care coverage that our Congress gets. Then we will all be well cared for.

While we are at it, can I get their continued pay benefits as well?

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post #4 of 88 (permalink) Old 03-26-2012, 11:32 AM
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I thought that the current version in now already had this part.
Found this link:
http://www.healthcare.gov/law/featur...e-plan/il.html
Not sure if this applies for private ins too.
I have not read the law but I would hope that the whole not being able to deny people due to conditions they may already have has some sort of clause of reasonable rates attached to it. In theory they do not have to deny you but can make the rate so high that people cannot afford it, technically they are not denying you. Ex. You have epilepsy, your rate is $10K per month, would you like to pay with cash or credit? Always a way to omit people.

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post #5 of 88 (permalink) Old 03-26-2012, 11:34 AM
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^^I guarantee you though, that some level of that is in the obamacare legislation. It simply has to be. An insurance company, any insurance company, weighs their coverage on risk. Folks with higher risk or that require more care SHOULD pay more. That's the essence of the whole program...now, that said, things that are considered pre-existing conditions today need to be re-evaluated. As Wink said, there has to be some middle ground.

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post #6 of 88 (permalink) Old 03-26-2012, 11:34 AM
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My wife has epilepsy, NO seizures since 12 years old, but that still makes insurance almost impossible.

My daughter had a head injury, once again, not insurable without state program.

Need to have programs where we can cover people that are willing to pay, but that needs to be in a reasonable price range. $10k a month is NUTS!

When I left a prior job, the COBRA rate for my family was $5400 per month. Big surprise, we did NOT take it!

BUT - If I work for a big company, my numbers get normalized across the employees, and insurance for whole family is under $2k. THAT is what I should be able to buy on my own from the same insurance company. At least, it would be nice.

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post #7 of 88 (permalink) Old 03-26-2012, 11:36 AM
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I wonder how much of the pre-existing condition nonsense is related to liability and potential for lawsuits...how much of it is insurance companies just not wanting to deal with that potential.

Without question, the legal side of things is one of the biggest issues, for doctors, hospitals and patients...of course with how well connected the law firms are in Washington you don't see much action there.

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post #8 of 88 (permalink) Old 03-26-2012, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by under200 View Post
I thought that the current version in now already had this part.
Found this link:
http://www.healthcare.gov/law/featur...e-plan/il.html
Not sure if this applies for private ins too.
I have not read the law but I would hope that the whole not being able to deny people due to conditions they may already have has some sort of clause of reasonable rates attached to it. In theory they do not have to deny you but can make the rate so high that people cannot afford it, technically they are not denying you. Ex. You have epilepsy, your rate is $10K per month, would you like to pay with cash or credit? Always a way to omit people.
Similar to insuring a Busa. "hello Geiko, I have a busa I would like to insure and I'm 18 years old." "no problem sir, that will be $9500 per year, will that be on your credit card today?"




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post #9 of 88 (permalink) Old 03-26-2012, 11:44 AM
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But but, Tony...it's not fair!


Tom

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacitus
In a state where corruption abounds, laws must be very numerous.
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post #10 of 88 (permalink) Old 03-26-2012, 11:49 AM
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Hahahahaha




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Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.

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post #11 of 88 (permalink) Old 03-26-2012, 12:04 PM
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Agree that with the current system that people who may use the insurance a lot should pay a bit more but under the current system the insurance company is basically minimizing their risk to <1%. Basically only insure healthy people and do not take on people who may use their product. Kinda sucks.
I know lots of people here hate it but Single payer would solve a lot of this. Wish the president had the balls to stick on this issue. With single payer the risk would be spread out so much that rates would be cheaper by adding lots of young healthy people. Hell the gov automatically takes $ out of my check to fund, police, military, bridges, farm subsidies, schools, aid to other countries, etc. They may as well cover something I use with all that tax money.
Fyi, I have individual overage thru blue cross, it was cheaper for me than to use my employer offered one. We have one person who is terminal and another 2 that have health problems. Those people skewed our rates so much that I was better off going on my own.

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post #12 of 88 (permalink) Old 03-26-2012, 12:15 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerk View Post
But but, Tony...it's not fair!

You really don't see the difference between insuring s busa for a 18 year old and health insurance?

You better be nice to America or we will bring democracy to your country.
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post #13 of 88 (permalink) Old 03-26-2012, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Gone In 3 View Post
You really don't see the difference between insuring s busa for a 18 year old and health insurance?
I do, problem is the systems broken. we have accepted the way the system works now and it was never meant to be that way.




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post #14 of 88 (permalink) Old 03-26-2012, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Gone In 3 View Post
You really don't see the difference between insuring s busa for a 18 year old and health insurance?
Economically? No.

So let me ask you this. I higher risk client costs more money right? ...if the clients themselves aren't asked to pay more money, how then do you go to the rest of the folks paying in to the system and ask them to do the same?

Obviously folks are asked to pay far too much today...but there's a lot more to it than simply the rates and "the greedy insurance companies".

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacitus
In a state where corruption abounds, laws must be very numerous.
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post #15 of 88 (permalink) Old 03-26-2012, 01:27 PM
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Economically? No.

So let me ask you this. I higher risk client costs more money right? ...if the clients themselves aren't asked to pay more money, how then do you go to the rest of the folks paying in to the system and ask them to do the same?

Obviously folks are asked to pay far too much today...but there's a lot more to it than simply the rates and "the greedy insurance companies".
see your trying to use logic again. to a liberal none of that computes. economics has nothing to do with it. insurance is just a name, they equate it to a welfare program that everyone has an entitlement too. I really wish everyone would stop calling it insurance and call it what it is, a govt sponsored entitlement program.

I'm not saying its wrong or right, just don't like misrepresentation. Insurance is designed to cover you for big events in life, house fires, surgeries, accidents, car crashes, and so on and so forth. its not meant to be a healthcare management system. you dont call your homeowners insurance every time I need to check out and tuneup your ac system, but if a car goes off the road and takes your system out, you might. we shouldn't have to call our insurance companies every time we sneeze or need a physical. but if you have a heart attack, yes it should be there.




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post #16 of 88 (permalink) Old 03-26-2012, 01:33 PM
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how a bout repricing. Looking at a bill we just got related to ER. price $2,800. Plan discounted it to $790. That's a discount of $2,010 on a $2800 bill. So if you don't have insurance, you're on the hook for the full $2,800.

If the hospital is willing to take $790 for the service, why would they want to try and charge someone without insurance $2800?
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post #17 of 88 (permalink) Old 03-26-2012, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack View Post
how a bout repricing. Looking at a bill we just got related to ER. price $2,800. Plan discounted it to $790. That's a discount of $2,010 on a $2800 bill. So if you don't have insurance, you're on the hook for the full $2,800.

If the hospital is willing to take $790 for the service, why would they want to try and charge someone without insurance $2800?
exactly what I mean by "the system is broken"!!




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post #18 of 88 (permalink) Old 03-26-2012, 01:41 PM
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george bush doesnt care about black people.
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post #19 of 88 (permalink) Old 03-26-2012, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack View Post
how a bout repricing. Looking at a bill we just got related to ER. price $2,800. Plan discounted it to $790. That's a discount of $2,010 on a $2800 bill. So if you don't have insurance, you're on the hook for the full $2,800.

If the hospital is willing to take $790 for the service, why would they want to try and charge someone without insurance $2800?
That is exactly my point! Great post Jack, good to see you posting again.

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post #20 of 88 (permalink) Old 03-26-2012, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTony View Post
Similar to insuring a Busa. "hello Geiko, I have a busa I would like to insure and I'm 18 years old." "no problem sir, that will be $9500 per year, will that be on your credit card today?"
except you choose to buy the busa at 18, no one chooses to have a pre-existing condition

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post #21 of 88 (permalink) Old 03-26-2012, 01:50 PM
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This whole problem starts with liability, lawyers and CYA fees and wasteful spending to curtail lawsuits.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacitus
In a state where corruption abounds, laws must be very numerous.
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post #22 of 88 (permalink) Old 03-26-2012, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilotx1 View Post
except you choose to buy the busa at 18, no one chooses to have a pre-existing condition
The concept remains the same.

Tom

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacitus
In a state where corruption abounds, laws must be very numerous.
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post #23 of 88 (permalink) Old 03-26-2012, 01:53 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilotx1 View Post
except you choose to buy the busa at 18, no one chooses to have a pre-existing condition
This is my point.

Concept is not the same.

This is your health and life we are talking about, not a 18 year old's desire to own a ridiculous bike.

You better be nice to America or we will bring democracy to your country.

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post #24 of 88 (permalink) Old 03-26-2012, 01:54 PM
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except you choose to buy the busa at 18, no one chooses to have a pre-existing condition
and back to the premiss of calling all of this Insurance. if we are going to continue calling it insurance, then well it shouldn't cover it or it should price it out to the stratosphere.

but if its a govt healthcare entitlement, well then, now we can talk.

somewhere along the line, health insurance, got away from being "insurance" to cover emergencies and huge expenses. and became pay for me everytime i sneeze.




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post #25 of 88 (permalink) Old 03-26-2012, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
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This is my point.

Concept is not the same.

This is your health and life we are talking about, not a 18 year old's desire to own a ridiculous bike.
Good grief, it is the same. The risk is higher, and so the rate is higher. How do you not see this...? At the end of the day, SOMEONE is paying for those higher rates...how should the individual themselves not be part of that additional cost?

You're confusing empathy with economics. They are not the same, and when you try to mix them you generally succeed only in screwing both sides up.

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post #26 of 88 (permalink) Old 03-26-2012, 02:01 PM
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To clarify, I don't think anyone is suggesting that the current state of things has it right, but to go so far as to say that pre-existing conditions shouldn't matter at all? ...that's as out of line as the current system.

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post #27 of 88 (permalink) Old 03-26-2012, 02:02 PM
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Insurance is designed to cover you for big events in life, house fires, surgeries, accidents, car crashes, and so on and so forth. its not meant to be a healthcare management system. you dont call your homeowners insurance every time I need to check out and tuneup your ac system, but if a car goes off the road and takes your system out, you might. we shouldn't have to call our insurance companies every time we sneeze or need a physical. but if you have a heart attack, yes it should be there.
Ding, ding. That is another primary problem. People with no insurance or poor insurance tend not to visit the doctor until the problem manifests into something big. Little problems that could be treated by a healthcare management system become big expensive problems, sometimes fatal.
It is just a guess but if more people were insured I would wager that we would have less catastrophic health problems. Just like a car or bike, it is cheaper to maintain the machine rather to wait until it comes to a halt and then try to fix it.

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post #28 of 88 (permalink) Old 03-26-2012, 02:06 PM
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Actually, one of the first suggestions presented to this bill was to have at least SOME sort of co-pay, even $5...to stop people from going to the doctor for ever little thing...heck it's free right? Why not?...you have to have some sort of payment to make people responsible for their actions...otherwise good luck getting in to see a Doctor.

Again, Economics.

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Originally Posted by Tacitus
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post #29 of 88 (permalink) Old 03-26-2012, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by under200 View Post
Ding, ding. That is another primary problem. People with no insurance or poor insurance tend not to visit the doctor until the problem manifests into something big. Little problems that could be treated by a healthcare management system become big expensive problems, sometimes fatal.
It is just a guess but if more people were insured I would wager that we would have less catastrophic health problems. Just like a car or bike, it is cheaper to maintain the machine rather to wait until it comes to a halt and then try to fix it.
How do you stop the people who go in for, "my elbow feels funny"

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post #30 of 88 (permalink) Old 03-26-2012, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FiReBReTHa View Post
How do you stop the people who go in for, "my elbow feels funny"
A $5 or $10 co-pay.

Tom

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