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post #1 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-28-2012, 10:35 AM Thread Starter
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I'm changing my vote!

I can't believe the Supreme Court says its constitutional for the government to require citizens to buy a commercial product!!! That is so f*cked up. I was against this mandate from the beginning, but I was convinced the court would strike it down. 5-4 in favor.

I don't agree with everything Obama has done, and I don't much like Romney, but I want this law overturned. The government should not have this much power, it sets a dangerous precedent.

Looks like I'm changing my vote this November.

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post #2 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-28-2012, 10:40 AM
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All of this would not have even become an issue or gotten this far if it was just marketed correctly in the first place. Medi-care for all.
Don't see anyone bitchin about grandma Sue getting her healthcare or pacemaker paid for in large part by tax payers money and the remainder by aarp that she pays for on her own if she want it.
Things should have gone single payer, he tried to take a smaller bite and it made more trouble.

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post #3 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-28-2012, 10:40 AM
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You won't be the only one. This vote really was a lose-lose for the President. What remains a VERY unpopular bill nationally was just thrust back in to the spotlight in the midst of election season.

Obamacare, despite all the other things going on, will ultimately be the undoing of this Presidency.

Didn't the Justices rule that the mandate could only survive as a tax? I'm not sure I fully understand what that means.

The entire thing will be repealed in the coming years...especially when the true price tag starts to hit...."Affordable Health Care"?? ...for the folks not paying for it maybe.

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post #4 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-28-2012, 10:41 AM
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All of this would not have even become an issue or gotten this far if it was just marketed correctly in the first place. Medi-care for all.
Don't see anyone bitchin about grandma Sue getting her healthcare or pacemaker paid for in large part by tax payers money and the remainder by aarp that she pays for on her own if she want it.
Things should have gone single payer, he tried to take a smaller bite and it made more trouble.
Are you serious?

Medicare is in DIRE straits...which is exactly why it wasn't marketed as such. As a matter of fact, the Obamacare bill takes what, $565B out of the medicare budget? (I know I know, it's not "medicare"...semantics)

The Affordable Health Care Act did nothing but extent promises for votes. It changes virtually nothing related to WHY health care is so expensive, which is of course the underlying problem. It dictates that everyone purchase health care services they can't afford. That makes sense.

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post #5 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-28-2012, 10:45 AM Thread Starter
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This is really going to hit people in the pocket books.

The court said the fine the government will levy on those who don't buy health insurance is actually a "tax" on the individual. That is really f*cked up, that gives the government way too much power.

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post #6 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-28-2012, 10:45 AM
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Haha, Stocks took a nose dive immediately following the ruling.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/47994090

This is almost a better outcome for opponents of the bill. Leave it be in its entirety, so it's easier to likewise remove.

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post #7 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-28-2012, 10:46 AM
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This is really going to hit people in the pocket books.

The court said the fine the government will levy on those who don't buy health insurance is actually a "tax" on the individual. That is really f*cked up, that gives the government way too much power.
Nov '12. Change is 'a comin'.

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post #8 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-28-2012, 10:51 AM
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Are you serious?

Medicare is in DIRE straits...which is exactly why it wasn't marketed as such. As a matter of fact, the Obamacare bill takes what, $565B out of the medicare budget? (I know I know, it's not "medicare"...semantics)
Something needs to be done to toss the people in jail who defraud medicare. There is soooo much waste and money being stolen. Just last week I watched a documentary on how the Chinese mob starting way back in the 80's was running scams with medicare and selling SS# linked to seniors and working with dirty doctors to bill the gov for procedures and visits never made. I am sure they are not the only ones doing this, there could be over a million claims per year that are imaginary that we are getting stuck paying for. Create a task force to bust these fuckers and the cost will come down.

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post #9 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-28-2012, 10:52 AM Thread Starter
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Haha, Stocks took a nose dive immediately following the ruling.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/47994090
Except the stocks of health care companies. The court just ensured their profits for years to come.

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post #10 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-28-2012, 10:53 AM
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Do realize that whichever way the bill went the health insurance companies would spin it towards them raising rates.
If it passed as it did they would say that they now have a bigger pool of the sick or high risk to cover.
If it was struck down they would cry that they were upset that they are not getting all the new customers that the law would have brought them.
Win, win for them.

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post #11 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-28-2012, 10:59 AM
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Something needs to be done to toss the people in jail who defraud medicare. There is soooo much waste and money being stolen. Just last week I watched a documentary on how the Chinese mob starting way back in the 80's was running scams with medicare and selling SS# linked to seniors and working with dirty doctors to bill the gov for procedures and visits never made. I am sure they are not the only ones doing this, there could be over a million claims per year that are imaginary that we are getting stuck paying for. Create a task force to bust these fuckers and the cost will come down.
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Do realize that whichever way the bill went the health insurance companies would spin it towards them raising rates.
If it passed as it did they would say that they now have a bigger pool of the sick or high risk to cover.
If it was struck down they would cry that they were upset that they are not getting all the new customers that the law would have brought them.
Win, win for them.
Which is exactly why the bill is a waste of time, money and effort. You don't DECREASE cost by INCREASING demand and then adding a giant govt branch on top of it. In what world did that ever make sense?

Vilifying the insurance companies was always the wrong approach...you decrease cost by simplifying regulations, relaxing risk through legal suit and increasing competition. It really is that simple. ...that and insurance should not cover standard Dr. visits, just as auto ins doesn't cover oil changes and tire rotations.

There's no way that fraud and waste will go down by adding what will become the single largest government entity in the country. This bill will ultimately be the rallying call not for a party, but for a country looking to regain its old form. In many ways, this President has been the best thing to happen in decades, because he has demonstrated the ultimate goal, just how far people are willing to go in controlling government and thusly its people.

Buh-bye.

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post #12 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-28-2012, 11:05 AM
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From the DNC:

Quote:
...the SCOTUS ruling, in three words, from executive director @patrickgaspard:

'it's constitutional. Bitches.'

Over to you, RNC...

UPDATE: In a more somber tweet a few minutes ago, Gaspard curbed his enthusiasm:

"I let my scotus excitement get the better of me. In all seriousness, this is an important moment in improving the lives of all Americans."

Tom

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post #13 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-28-2012, 11:07 AM
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Something needs to be done to toss the people in jail who defraud medicare. There is soooo much waste and money being stolen. Just last week I watched a documentary on how the Chinese mob starting way back in the 80's was running scams with medicare and selling SS# linked to seniors and working with dirty doctors to bill the gov for procedures and visits never made. I am sure they are not the only ones doing this, there could be over a million claims per year that are imaginary that we are getting stuck paying for. Create a task force to bust these fuckers and the cost will come down.

they have a "task force". and it seems their whole purpose is fucking good honest care providers out of money. medicare is a total and complete clusterfuck beyond comprehension.
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post #14 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-28-2012, 11:08 AM
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Nov '12. Change is 'a comin'.
LOL, there's no change. Demo-douche replaced by Republi-douche. Same result. The entire system is fubar regardless of the talking head we stick up there. The only real candidates we'd want will never make it that far anyways.

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post #15 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-28-2012, 11:09 AM
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Vilifying the insurance companies was always the wrong approach...you decrease cost by simplifying regulations, relaxing risk through legal suit and increasing competition. It really is that simple. ...that and insurance should not cover standard Dr. visits, just as auto ins doesn't cover oil changes and tire rotations.
Good point, there are some insurance plans already out there that cover like this. A company down the street from where I work offers a catastrophic plan as an option where the person pays for visits and small things but if they ever get really banged up or sick it kicks in. Must cheaper premiums of course.
I always carried more inclusive insurance and paid accordingly.
To play the devils advocate, if regular doctors visits are not affordable and not covered at a reduced rate some people will not go in until they are really messed up and end up costing a lot more to treat. There is no simple answer.

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post #16 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-28-2012, 11:09 AM
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LOL, there's no change. Demo-douche replaced by Republi-douche. Same result. The entire system is fubar regardless of the talking head we stick up there. The only real candidates we'd want will never make it that far anyways.
I disagree completely. This fall really is a vote for general direction. Social Govt care and oversight, or individual responsibility and free(er) markets.

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post #17 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-28-2012, 11:12 AM
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To play the devils advocate, if regular doctors visits are not affordable and not covered at a reduced rate some people will not go in until they are really messed up and end up costing a lot more to treat. There is no simple answer.
This is true, but again that's the individual's call and should not be the Government, which makes it my and our problem. You can't save everyone, to sacrifice the well being, care and cost for everyone to "protect" the few is ridiculous to me. To return to the auto analogy, couldn't you say that folks that don't take care of maintenance on their car for cost reasons then drive in a more dangerous vehicle, potentially endangering others...delaying their commutes at the very least when those people break down? So for that reason should it be mandated that everyone drive on safe tires, with proper suspension and alignment, and that we should all share in that cost for benefit, safety and well being of everyone?

That's how ridiculous it is.

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post #18 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-28-2012, 11:15 AM
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Except the stocks of health care companies. The court just ensured their profits for years to come.
Let's be clear....

Insurers got clobbered. They will be hit and have to raise prices to make up the cost of insuring the uninsurable

Hospitals went up. They will be getting paid now for all those people who come in without insurance that they weren't getting paid for before.

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post #19 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-28-2012, 11:17 AM
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This is true, but again that's the individual's call and should not be the Government, which makes it my and our problem. You can't save everyone, to sacrifice the well being, care and cost for everyone to "protect" the few is ridiculous to me. To return to the auto analogy, couldn't you say that folks that don't take care of maintenance on their car for cost reasons then drive in a more dangerous vehicle, potentially endangering others...delaying their commutes at the very least when those people break down? So for that reason should it be mandated that everyone drive on safe tires, with proper suspension and alignment, and that we should all share in that cost for benefit, safety and well being of everyone?

That's how ridiculous it is.
Yes, it should be mandated and the ones that aren't safe enough get sent to the crusher!

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post #20 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-28-2012, 11:19 AM
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btw.....

Illinois and California will get burried by this! They can't afford the cost of Medicaid Expansion. Guess who's taxes are going up besides having to pay higher insurance premiums!

If you don't buy health insurance your tax penaltly will be $285 in 2013, but moves up to $2085 by 2016!!

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post #21 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-28-2012, 11:31 AM
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If you don't buy health insurance your tax penaltly will be $285 in 2013, but moves up to $2085 by 2016!!
$2085 annual?
that's a lot cheaper than what I'm paying for bare bones coverage.
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post #22 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-28-2012, 11:37 AM
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so when do i have til to buy insurance?

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post #23 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-28-2012, 11:39 AM
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$2085 annual?
that's a lot cheaper than what I'm paying for bare bones coverage.
Sure.....but on the other hand..............it's $2085 more than what your paying to not own insurance now!

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post #24 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-28-2012, 11:48 AM
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Here's the biggest issue the liberals should have with this......

Obama has repeatedly promised not to raise taxes on the middle class. He has now, not only broken that promise, but imposed a tax on millions of Americans reaching down to the lower class and the unemployed! Not sure how that is good for the economy.

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post #25 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-28-2012, 12:04 PM
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Sure.....but on the other hand..............it's $2085 more than what your paying to not own insurance now!
so why not pay the fine instead of paying for insurance that I never use?
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post #26 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-28-2012, 12:05 PM
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so why not pay the fine instead of paying for insurance that I never use?
Because you'll be a bad American!

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post #27 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-28-2012, 12:06 PM
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so why not pay the fine instead of paying for insurance that I never use?
that's you're choice. But then don't cry when you have to pay a fine and big hospital bills when something does happen.

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post #28 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-28-2012, 12:14 PM
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better question: how many more times will this all change before any of it goes into effect?

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post #29 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-28-2012, 12:20 PM
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that's you're choice. But then don't cry when you have to pay a fine and big hospital bills when something does happen.
Obama won't pay my hospital bills for me?
I'm playing devil's advocate here, I'm sure I'll keep some kind of SHTF plan for my family, but there will still be ten of millions of americans who don't get insurance. what happens when they show up at the ER? they can't afford to pay premiums, and now they're getting fines on top of their bloated medical bills? sounds like a great plan.
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post #30 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-28-2012, 12:26 PM
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that's you're choice. But then don't cry when you have to pay a fine and big hospital bills when something does happen.
If you play the system correctly, you pay the fine when you get sick and go get a policy since you can't be denied coverage for a pre-existing condition....kinda like wrecking your car and then getting a policy to cover the damage

Look, I can appreciate this. I was young too, I felt just like you. Hated authority, hated all my bosses, thought they were full of shit. Look, it's like they say, if you're not a rebel by the age of 20, you got no heart, but if you haven't turned establishment by 30, you've got no brains. Because there are no story-book romances, no fairy-tale endings. So before you run out and change the world, ask yourself, "What do you really want?"
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