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post #1 of 42 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 07:44 AM Thread Starter
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The fiscal cliff

Rick's view on the fiscal cliff:

1) The Administration allows the bus to go over the fiscal cliff and dings all of us with $2000 more in taxes a year, cuts spending, then claims to "save" the country and us by reducing the deficit, when in actuality it was "us" who reduced the debt. They will pat themselves on the back, give themselves huge raises and up their pensions, which we pay for. Of course
they will accomplish this before Christmas so they can have a 5 week winter break, at our expense.
2) The Administration will come up with an inventive way to steer the bus clear of the fiscal cliff, and raise taxes by only $1500 a year, cut spending then claims to "save" the country and us by reducing the deficit, when in actuality it was "us" who reduced the debt. They will pat themselves on the back, give themselves huge raises and up their pensions, which we pay for. Of course they will accomplish this before Christmas so they can have a 5 week winter break, at our expense.

Bottom line we get screwed up the ass, with lube and plenty of coarse sand. Of course the only people not getting screwed is the congress and their cronies.

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post #2 of 42 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 10:20 AM
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This is why I prefer Fiscal Norm.

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post #3 of 42 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 12:39 PM
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Fuckin mess. The Dems bent over backward the whole first term trying to be civil and compromise. Everything they tried got blocked by the Reps. Now Obama is growing a pair knowing that he does not have to worry about re-elections. The Reps seem to have their own definition of compromise which means that they act like bitches and only accept ideas that are 100% of what they want. No give and take, just take. They still have the imaginary magical thinking that you can cut the deficit and grow by just cut, no revenue increases thru taxes. Fuckin nuts.
Its like saying that you can become rich by simply not buying things, never mind bringing a check home. Working your way up to better higher paying position. You can create wealth by just cuts. Wtf?. Nobody likes taxes but they are a reality in civilized society. Besides, if America is the best country as people site as scripture doesn't it have a fee to be a member?

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post #4 of 42 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by under200 View Post
Fuckin mess. The Dems bent over backward the whole first term trying to be civil and compromise. Everything they tried got blocked by the Reps. Now Obama is growing a pair knowing that he does not have to worry about re-elections. The Reps seem to have their own definition of compromise which means that they act like bitches and only accept ideas that are 100% of what they want. No give and take, just take. They still have the imaginary magical thinking that you can cut the deficit and grow by just cut, no revenue increases thru taxes. Fuckin nuts.
Its like saying that you can become rich by simply not buying things, never mind bringing a check home. Working your way up to better higher paying position. You can create wealth by just cuts. Wtf?. Nobody likes taxes but they are a reality in civilized society. Besides, if America is the best country as people site as scripture doesn't it have a fee to be a member?
Wow would I hate to live in your world. Not everything has to be based on an R and a D. They both got us in to this mess, together...they're both to blame. You do realize that the Republicans have acquiesced to tax increases (now that the deficit has become SO bad, it really is absolutely necessary at this point) yet all the talk of "balanced approaches" and "compromise" has gone completely out the window.

It's just stunning to me that anyone can be so one-sided in their view of what has happened. You realize that the Republicans had zero control for the first two years, none, zip, zero. Heck the Dems had a super-majority.

Yes, taxes must be on the table, but massive cuts in spending will be needed as well...that is "balance" no? Yet what are the plans for those cuts? (spare me the defense cuts, that's not what we're talking about here) ...people need to wake up and pay attention to what is actually happening instead of taking their spoon feedings every day.

Hook. Line. Sinker.

Tom

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacitus
In a state where corruption abounds, laws must be very numerous.

Last edited by Cerk; 12-02-2012 at 01:07 PM.
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post #5 of 42 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 01:17 PM
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No matter, this will all actually be fun to watch...as the empty promises and nonsensical premises will be shown for what they are. Bottom line, the country is out of money. Here we are, talking about moderate tax increases on a tiny portion of the tax base, no real spending cuts and actually talk of ANOTHER stimulus. Discussions of cutting $1.7 billion over 10 years when that's basically our ANNUAL debt.

All the previous stimulus did was float the public sector jobs and government entities until this past election. They're trying to do it again...10% of those dollars went to infrastructure, and due to the "shovel ready" requirement on those dollars, almost all of that money went to simple resurfacing jobs, and employed basically no one that wasn't already employed.

I don't know what's worse at this point, the stupidity in Washington or the gullibility of the people that believe their excuses, on both sides. We suffer, while they ALL get rich. The ruling class indeed.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacitus
In a state where corruption abounds, laws must be very numerous.
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post #6 of 42 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by under200 View Post
Fuckin mess. The Dems bent over backward the whole first term trying to be civil and compromise. Everything they tried got blocked by the Reps. Now Obama is growing a pair knowing that he does not have to worry about re-elections. The Reps seem to have their own definition of compromise which means that they act like bitches and only accept ideas that are 100% of what they want. No give and take, just take. They still have the imaginary magical thinking that you can cut the deficit and grow by just cut, no revenue increases thru taxes. Fuckin nuts.
Its like saying that you can become rich by simply not buying things, never mind bringing a check home. Working your way up to better higher paying position. You can create wealth by just cuts. Wtf?. Nobody likes taxes but they are a reality in civilized society. Besides, if America is the best country as people site as scripture doesn't it have a fee to be a member?

this is not even close to being an accurate statement.
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post #7 of 42 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 01:46 PM
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^^It's just astounding isn't it?

Tom

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacitus
In a state where corruption abounds, laws must be very numerous.
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post #8 of 42 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 02:34 PM
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^^^ It's beyond astounding!!! BUT... it just goes to show how much false and biased information is spewed by the media. The Republicans certainly have culpability in the overall problem but it isn't them who are continuing to spend like drunken sailors at an ever increasing rate. But the biggest problem is and remains the complete lack of leadership coming from the executive branch. No leadership in compromise, no leadership in bipartisanship, no leadership in trying to persuade and convince, no leadership in foreign policy, no leadership whatsoever and yet they have the audacity to claim a 2% vote margin as a mandate! The ONLY leadership I've seen from this administration has been in vacation time and BULLSHIT. Harsh realities and hard choices need to be made to actually solve the problems...posturing and declaring a mandate and standing firm for all you want to do is not leadership!

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post #9 of 42 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by under200 View Post
Fuckin mess. The Dems bent over backward the whole first term trying to be civil and compromise. Everything they tried got blocked by the Reps. Now Obama is growing a pair knowing that he does not have to worry about re-elections. The Reps seem to have their own definition of compromise which means that they act like bitches and only accept ideas that are 100% of what they want. No give and take, just take. They still have the imaginary magical thinking that you can cut the deficit and grow by just cut, no revenue increases thru taxes. Fuckin nuts.
Its like saying that you can become rich by simply not buying things, never mind bringing a check home. Working your way up to better higher paying position. You can create wealth by just cuts. Wtf?. Nobody likes taxes but they are a reality in civilized society. Besides, if America is the best country as people site as scripture doesn't it have a fee to be a member?

"Slow is smooth, Smooth is fast"
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post #10 of 42 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 04:53 PM
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the Rs should just let the Ds have their way. then when it does not work all the Ds will get thrown out of office.

a question to all the Ds, when is this obama's economy? how long?
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post #11 of 42 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 04:58 PM
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Regardless its a serious problem yet we have to pay our share..

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post #12 of 42 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 06:26 PM
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But "our share" goes up every single year because these idiots can't (more likely are unwilling to) understand that you can't spend more than you make, continuously and in a higher and higher capacity.

$16.3T now...yest we're talking about reductions of $1.7T over TEN YEARS...idiots.

Tom

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacitus
In a state where corruption abounds, laws must be very numerous.
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post #13 of 42 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 06:31 PM
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But "our share" goes up every single year because these idiots can't (more likely are unwilling to) understand that you can't spend more than you make
Couldn't agree more.

You better be nice to America or we will bring democracy to your country.
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post #14 of 42 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerk View Post
But "our share" goes up every single year because these idiots can't (more likely are unwilling to) understand that you can't spend more than you make, continuously and in a higher and higher capacity.

$16.3T now...yest we're talking about reductions of $1.7T over TEN YEARS...idiots.
Don't worry! 80 billion in new tax revenue from the rich and small business owners fixes everything! Plus it'll put a lot more people out of work so we can give them free money from the government. Greece is the shit. They really know what they are doing over there. Lets follow their lead.

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post #15 of 42 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 07:38 PM
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taxes will go up but spending will also continue to go up, but will get lower in areas like defense. overall, the tax increase will not even make a dent as spending will increase over the extra amount it takes in so things will continue to get worse. yay!
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post #16 of 42 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meulen View Post
Don't worry! 80 billion in new tax revenue from the rich and small business owners fixes everything! Plus it'll put a lot more people out of work so we can give them free money from the government. Greece is the shit. They really know what they are doing over there. Lets follow their lead.
...and the general consensus...let's put the Government morons in charge of MORE shit!!

Unbelievable.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacitus
In a state where corruption abounds, laws must be very numerous.
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post #17 of 42 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 09:31 PM
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I'm starting to think going off the cliff is not a bad idea! Yeah....the hit to the economy will suck. But Washington doesn't get it. Our President thinks holding out to get revenues rom the rich that doesn't even make a dent. Why are we even talking about revenue? WE HAVE A SPENDING PROBLEM!!!! They want an open checkbook, no cap on spending. If we go over the cliff it means automatic cuts. They'll have to deal with the right side of the equation finally. We'll get certainty and visibility for businesses. Those things aren't bad! When the housing crisis hit I was a proponent for letting the medicine be shoved down our throats. I was against stimulus. I still think that would have been a better option and we'd be on the road to recovery had that path been taken. This may be the same situation.

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post #18 of 42 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 09:38 PM
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It's just a continuation of that very problem...at some point, the sheer magnitude of the debt will stop the wheels from turning. Sure, the US economy is enormous and can shoulder a much larger debt burden, but there's still a limit...and we're fast approaching it.

I'm with you, at some point all of the crap that's got a band aid on it, and there's too much to even begin to list, will have to be dealt with. These idiots are like a bunch of petulant children, oblivious of the facts, oblivious of the ramifications of the decisions they make...all they want is their money and their power. That's it.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacitus
In a state where corruption abounds, laws must be very numerous.
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post #19 of 42 (permalink) Old 12-03-2012, 03:05 AM
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Obama wants to have full control over the Country's budget. Looks like dictatorship to me.

Obama needs mo money for his agenda groups, he just digs more into the debt without congress's approval.


I know the liberals will say its good for the country bullshit.
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post #20 of 42 (permalink) Old 12-03-2012, 03:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by under200 View Post
Its like saying that you can become rich by simply not buying things, never mind bringing a check home. ?

Uh yeah thats how it works, one way. My dad is a fawking baller. He fed us once a day, and bought me socks for Xmas and a birthday card for my Bday. Now hes got stacks of money growing in interest in the bank. Fawking rich.
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post #21 of 42 (permalink) Old 12-03-2012, 07:22 AM Thread Starter
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LOL on the news right last night (CBS) if we go off the fiscal cliff taxes will increase to $3500 a year for the middle class, duh, I thought I heard the president said $2200?? Actually since I don't view this thru rose colored glasses, the truth is I predict it will be between $7000 and $8000 per year, a Facebook friend actually calculated out to $6875. Of course if you are a member of the government you won't have to pay the increases, and most likely give yourselves a huge pay increase because you "saved" us.

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post #22 of 42 (permalink) Old 12-03-2012, 10:01 AM
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All I can say is, If you didnt have to pay taxes, heck even if you had to pay less into tax, just think about how much more things people would buy. I pay tens of thousands a year in taxes. Thats several brand new motorcycles that I could buy myself every year. That in and of itself would create millions of new jobs. Now cut taxes even by a few thousand a year and I guarantee 95% of people would put that money back into the system thus creating more jobs and more taxes. My proof is just looking at what people do when they get their tax refund back. They blow the money most of the time.

Now vice versa, if you increase taxes, people buy less things, jobs are lost, tax revenue stays the same or worsens, and people have a lower quality of life.

This isnt rocket science, people. The fiscal cliff is 100% because of irresponsibility in the government and corporations that exploit the system. Raising taxes is NOT the answer. There is way too much waste and spending. I wish someone would just hit the reset button.

I agree with RickC1957, we are gonna get screwed with lots of sand.
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post #23 of 42 (permalink) Old 12-03-2012, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
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This is why I prefer Fiscal Norm.
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post #24 of 42 (permalink) Old 12-03-2012, 06:43 PM
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It's funny to me that people don't understand that taxes works like a rheostat. The revenue from taxes does not change linearly with tax rate changes...meaning that if you raise the taxes 10%, that does NOT mean you're going to get 10% more in revenue. There's a point at which raising taxes too much actually DECREASES your total revenue, just as lowering it too much does.

Taxes are a percent of income, so in a more bustling economy, the same tax RATE will generate more income because people are making more money. When you raise the rate to a point that business suffers, investors stop investing and wealth is moved out of the Country to avoid it...well, you start hurting your bottom line. It's not a bottomless pit, as so many purport it to be.

Simple economics. But what would Politicians know about that?

Tom

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacitus
In a state where corruption abounds, laws must be very numerous.
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post #25 of 42 (permalink) Old 12-03-2012, 08:48 PM
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Yes CERK and OLDTIMEBIKER you hit the nail on the head with your statements.

I just blows my mind how the Libs think it's a good idea to raise taxes and then spend all of that money they just raised instead of cutting spending....there is zero gain on reducing the deficit and thus will continue increasing it while everyone is getting taxed more and having less put to put into circulation in the economy on spending.

The lack of common sense defies me.....

Name me one time....local or federal gov't....that has ever been more efficient than the private sector....just one out of the trillions they piss away every year.

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post #26 of 42 (permalink) Old 12-03-2012, 08:50 PM
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And obama thinks some more stimulus money is the key to solving our problems.....

Honestly, I'm getting to the point of falling off the cliff...forces both parties in Washington to actually have to do something about the inevitable they have paved the way for us.

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post #27 of 42 (permalink) Old 12-03-2012, 08:53 PM
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The Stimulus is not meant to stimulate the economy, it's meant to line the coffers for the public sector employees so those micro-economies can float through to another election.

This is exactly what Stimulus #1 did, and it's exactly what #2 is meant for.

10% of Stimulus #1 went to infrastructure, guess where the rest went?

Tom

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacitus
In a state where corruption abounds, laws must be very numerous.
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post #28 of 42 (permalink) Old 12-03-2012, 09:00 PM
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Yepper.....come on CERK....I know those "shovel ready jobs" kept Chicago afloat and provided thousands of new jobs...what a joke!

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post #29 of 42 (permalink) Old 12-03-2012, 09:01 PM
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Haha, the asphalt companies got rich...I can tell you that!

Tom

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacitus
In a state where corruption abounds, laws must be very numerous.
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post #30 of 42 (permalink) Old 12-03-2012, 09:06 PM
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Location: Louisville, KY
Sportbike: 08 Suzuki GSXR600, 06 GSXR1000
Years Riding: Sponsored by Suzuki for 6 years.
How you found us: Fred from Sportbikes.net
           
Yeah....isn't it funny all those millions that are spent on the expressways....the asphalt lasts just long enough to start repaving in a few years.

Talk about job security. Grind it up and put it down again boyz!

Kevin Hanson
Safety First Racing
Louisville, KY
[email protected]
Safety First is offline  
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