Old Squid on a Blade
Join Date: Apr 2002
Sportbike: 2000 929
Years Riding: Longer than most of you have been alive. And I'm still slow.
How you found us: The voices in my head told me to come here
With all due respect. The Constitution guarantees due process, not judicial process. Congress has given the president authorization to use lethal methods under a resolution passed a week after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks that authorizes the use of all necessary force to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States. It is unfortunate that now and in the future some of those terrorists will be US citizens and we will be in a position where capture isn't practical, but the use of lethal force has specifically been given to the president by congress. If you have a problem, it is with congress. It’s worth noting that congress has not revoked that power in light of any of the targeted killings. The president is using the tools provided to him by congress. I do believe that any targeted killings, citizen or not, needs to be undertaken with extreme deliberation, care and caution, but the harsh reality is that we live in a world where it may be necessary.
I do understand your concerns about target killing a US citizen abroad, but his citizenship can’t be the only criteria for not acting. Terrorism and acts of war create special problems. One alternative to this could be to strip his citizenship before a targeted killing. There are multiple provisions that would allow the INS to do that, but would raise additional and potentially more vexing problems. There isn’t always a good alternative.
Don’t assume that you know how I will act on individual issues. I can succinctly say that I wouldn't be screaming foul over this issue if Bush or a Republican president acted in a similar manner. Can you tell me that if Bush did it you would be screaming foul? There are two core reasons for this and a number of secondary ones. First, I've been dealing with Middle East shitbag terrorists since the 70s starting with PLO shitbags. I’ve been speaking out against Al Qaeda before 9/11. Since 9/11 my views have become even more polarized. As long as they and other terrorist organizations resort to violence and raise arms against us or our allies I've consistently said kill them all and their supporters without mercy. Unfortunately, I view them as savages operating outside international “rules of war”. I really couldn’t give a rat’s ass of their country of origin. I’m a firm believer of hitting hard, fighting dirty, using all available weapons, kicking a man on the ground and not stopping till all fight is removed from an opponent or he is dead. Once I’m in an fight mode I’m rather binary in response. Secondarily, I have friends and extended family that are active or are retired military. Multiple special ops types are included that have been engaged with targeted killing for prior administrations. The crap they have gone through for this country is beyond words. I refuse to send them in harm’s way over Al Qaeda or other terrorist shitbags if we have an alternative. If we can remotely blow the shit out of bad guys I’m all for it. I've been dealing with Middle East shitbag terrorists for too long to really care about their rights.
Aside from the invasion of Iraq which at best was a strategic blunder of epic proportions, the most significant aspect of Bush’s “extrajudicial” programs that I didn’t approve of was the use of torture once we had a shitbag in captivity. I was quite concerned that the other shitbags would return the favor if they captured one of ours or use it against us from a propaganda standpoint. I’m also opposed to torture in general, but that is another subject.
You’ve got me on Bush’s direct involvement with Plame. Despite all the smoking guns we can’t prove Dick’s or George’s direct involvement and that’s why Libby went to jail. I’m glad that you know more than a Federal Grand Jury who invested thousands of hours trying to get to the bottom of this. IMO if they got the wrong guy, the obvious reason is he was covering for someone more important. The multiple counts pretty much clearly states that he is a lying POS.
There is nothing firm, nothing balanced, nothing durable in all the universe. Nothing remains in its original state, each day, each hour, each moment, there is change. Change is the essence of life. Embrace change as you do life. To fight change is to live in the past.