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post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-21-2013, 02:06 AM Thread Starter
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raise minimum wage again

Obama and Illinois governor want to destroy the economy and the US.

Raising it to $10 an hour.


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post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-21-2013, 03:23 AM
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Hmm, raise min wage, businesses raise prices to pay for said mandatory raise. hmmmm.

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post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-21-2013, 07:37 AM
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Tough issue. I am among the people who think that if you work a 40 hour week and do a good job you should be able to put a roof over your head. Before the peanut gallery chimes in.....no if you collect carts at Jewel you are not entitled to be able to buy a house in Barrington.
That being said, a national minimum wage is flawed. If the objective is to help people who work to have a minimum means to live it varies per state. In other words $10 per hour may be fine in TN or KY to make ends meet with 40hrs per week but this would be challenging to live in Chicago, CA or NY with this wage.

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post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-21-2013, 08:51 AM
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Economics 101..........raising minimum wage will either do nothing, or hurt the economy depending on what the economy can absorb. It's been proven time and time again academically. Minimum wage is used only as a pawn for political games.

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post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-21-2013, 09:00 AM
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Either way, this country is going down the shitter

You better be nice to America or we will bring democracy to your country.
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post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-21-2013, 09:22 AM
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Minimum wage is for teenagers looking for their first job. Why is this so hard to understand? All they are doing is making it harder to employ them. Now these kids have to rely on mom and dad.

If you have 2 kids and are only smart or qualified for a minimum wage job then you should not have had kids.
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post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-21-2013, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dennywags View Post
Minimum wage is for teenagers looking for their first job.
False. When jobs are scarce you would be amazed how many employers get away with hiring at low or min. wage. Not saying they would get high quality people but it is done. Just look at the want ads, plenty of ads asking for several years of experience and offering min wage to start.
Believe me, after being in corp America for over 20 yrs an employer would have no problem paying low or min wage for any position if they could get away with it and fill it without going higher. There would be no moral dilemma paying someone min wage if they needed a job and were willing to take it even if the position usually pays much more. Simple cut throat short sighted business practice. This does not do much to keep turnover down but have seen it done.

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post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-21-2013, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by under200 View Post
False. When jobs are scarce you would be amazed how many employers get away with hiring at low or min. wage. Not saying they would get high quality people but it is done. Just look at the want ads, plenty of ads asking for several years of experience and offering min wage to start.
Believe me, after being in corp America for over 20 yrs an employer would have no problem paying low or min wage for any position if they could get away with it and fill it without going higher. There would be no moral dilemma paying someone min wage if they needed a job and were willing to take it even if the position usually pays much more. Simple cut throat short sighted business practice. This does not do much to keep turnover down but have seen it done.
....and when jobs become "not so scarce" again, they would lose all their good people they worked hard to train and have to start all over. That usually costs more than paying them a "fair" wage and keeping them! Wake up people! Free markets work and weed out bad companies. We don't need too much government intervention like minimum wage.

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post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-21-2013, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meulen View Post
....and when jobs become "not so scarce" again, they would lose all their good people they worked hard to train and have to start all over. That usually costs more than paying them a "fair" wage and keeping them!
Very true.
Worked at a place for years that only hired engineers right out of school for peanuts. As soon as they got their 2 yrs experience they left, the place was a revolving door. They refused to pay an experienced engineer fair value and instead just hired newbies for cheap.

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post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-21-2013, 10:14 AM Thread Starter
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Either way, this country is going down the shitter
I blame Muslims
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post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-21-2013, 10:17 AM Thread Starter
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Basically, its going to cause prices to go up even more, and for small businesses to fire people because they start losing profits due to the increase in expenses.


And this also screws other people who have no cost of living raises.
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post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-21-2013, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by under200 View Post
False. When jobs are scarce you would be amazed how many employers get away with hiring at low or min. wage. Not saying they would get high quality people but it is done. Just look at the want ads, plenty of ads asking for several years of experience and offering min wage to start.
Believe me, after being in corp America for over 20 yrs an employer would have no problem paying low or min wage for any position if they could get away with it and fill it without going higher. There would be no moral dilemma paying someone min wage if they needed a job and were willing to take it even if the position usually pays much more. Simple cut throat short sighted business practice. This does not do much to keep turnover down but have seen it done.
False? So a 16 year old with no job experience should be guaranteed how much?

If you educate yourself and work hard, you should not have to worry about any of this. The more the government intervenes with business practices, the more likely a skilled and educated worker will have to maybe rely on it.
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post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-21-2013, 11:18 AM
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Someone has to pay for the increased cost to the companies, chances are it'll be the customers

Isn't the federal minimum wage like $7.25 right now? $10 is a pretty big jump

Either that or we'll be doing more self-checkouts and aldi cart checkins
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post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-21-2013, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meulen View Post
Economics 101..........raising minimum wage will either do nothing, or hurt the economy depending on what the economy can absorb. It's been proven time and time again academically. Minimum wage is used only as a pawn for political games.

-your free economic lesson of the day!
Bingo. They really are pulling every single play from the old playbook. We're honestly having this conversation AGAIN? In the midst of a down economy? Combined with ridiculous budget shortfalls? ...and rampant unemployment?

People really need to pull their head out of their collective arses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dennywags View Post
Minimum wage is for teenagers looking for their first job. Why is this so hard to understand? All they are doing is making it harder to employ them. Now these kids have to rely on mom and dad.

If you have 2 kids and are only smart or qualified for a minimum wage job then you should not have had kids.
Exactly. Minimum wage jobs are not meant to support a family, to pay for independent living. They're just not. Raise minimum wage and you do one of two things, raise the price on everything else, or reduce the total number of jobs.

Stupidity.

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post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-21-2013, 11:31 AM
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holy crap. the current minimum wage is not even $10???? I would have to work 1.5 hours just to buy a pack of smokes in cook county.

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post #16 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-21-2013, 11:40 AM
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Federal is $7.25, IL is 8.25

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post #17 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-21-2013, 11:56 AM
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holy crap. the current minimum wage is not even $10???? I would have to work 1.5 hours just to buy a pack of smokes in cook county.
wasnt that the intended consequece of raising the cig tax? to keep poor muffukers from smoking so much?
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post #18 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-21-2013, 12:02 PM
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Nah, it was intended to make up the revenue loss from the already declining numbers of smokers.

What....you think they're just going to cut that portion of revenue out of the budget!?

Tom

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacitus
In a state where corruption abounds, laws must be very numerous.
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post #19 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-21-2013, 12:09 PM
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Everybody is always on the wrong side of this. Maybe the solution to making the current minimum wage more liveable is to reduce the cost of living and governmental expenses and taxes. Just a thought.

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post #20 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-21-2013, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dennywags View Post
If you educate yourself and work hard, you should not have to worry about any of this.
If it was only that easy...
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post #21 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-21-2013, 01:18 PM
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Everybody is always on the wrong side of this. Maybe the solution to making the current minimum wage more liveable is to reduce the cost of living and governmental expenses and taxes. Just a thought.
you sound like a greedy rich big buisness owner
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post #22 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-21-2013, 01:19 PM
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Bingo. They really are pulling every single play from the old playbook. We're honestly having this conversation AGAIN? In the midst of a down economy? Combined with ridiculous budget shortfalls? ...and rampant unemployment?

People really need to pull their head out of their collective arses.



Exactly. Minimum wage jobs are not meant to support a family, to pay for independent living. They're just not. Raise minimum wage and you do one of two things, raise the price on everything else, or reduce the total number of jobs.

Stupidity.
Yeah.....that. Wage based inflation.

Minimum wage should match the rate of inflation (avg. 3%) and the buying power of the currency (cost of living / location dependent). You should be able to afford to feed yourself, live in a crappy 1-room apartment, and have some extra to occasionally do something fun.

And $7.50 - $8.50/hr is pretty close to doing that now, since there is basically no taxes at that level.

Minimum wage is not meant to support a kid, let you buy a nice car, have an iPhone, TV, PS4, etc. It's meant as entry level work for either kids or people who screwed up in life and decided to be lazy.
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post #23 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-21-2013, 05:34 PM
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A prime example is to take Lowes Home Improvement for example...

In Chicago...they pay workers more than minimum wage...hence why you never find anyone in the store to help you. It's simple mathematics....let's say your employee overhead can be no more than 250K a week...

Raise the minimum wage = less employees on the floor.

In KY...Lowe's is crawling with workers to help you because they can employee more people. And they are REALLY NICE and willing to help.....

I can't believe now I stayed in Chicago as long as I did.....

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post #24 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-21-2013, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Safety First View Post
A prime example is to take Lowes Home Improvement for example...

In Chicago...they pay workers more than minimum wage...hence why you never find anyone in the store to help you. It's simple mathematics....let's say your employee overhead can be no more than 250K a week...

Raise the minimum wage = less employees on the floor.

In KY...Lowe's is crawling with workers to help you because they can employee more people. And they are REALLY NICE and willing to help.....

I can't believe now I stayed in Chicago as long as I did.....
How does product pricing compare between Chicago and KY? Typically the lower wages per geographic location are correlated with higher buying power.

Greg

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post #25 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-21-2013, 05:40 PM
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The same thing is going to happen with health care.....to remain profitable a business knows exactly what their monthly nut can be on employee wages/benefits....

People are going to start losing their jobs, getting their insurance dropped, or working less than 30 hrs. a week. Businesses have to find a way to make the numbers work. Businesses are the big evil, money hungry people they are made out to be. The vast majority strive to provide a decent wage, make a few bucks themselves, but THEY HAVE to be profitable to keep the doors open.

More costs + more regulation = the more profit you have to make before you can even think about hiring another employee.

As you can see the govt won't ever figure it out because they have no reason to be efficient....they don't have any of their own money invested in anything they are regulating. If their salary and job security was tied to performance and balancing a budget...we would have an economy that was thriving.

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post #26 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-21-2013, 05:46 PM
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Great question Greg.....

I would say most things are 15-20% cheaper here roughly....groceries, gas, etc....normal day to day stuff.

Housing....30-50% cheaper depending upon where you live.

That being said....you can make less and it goes farther because you are paying way less in taxes. You may be getting taxed at 18% and you have more buying power than a guy make 100K+ getting taxed at 39.5% in Chicago.

Sales tax is a flat 6%....

You can be single and make 30K a year and still have a little money in your pocket.

You can raise a family here on 60K a year and still go out to eat and have a nice house. Louisville is like a mini Chicago. Tons of local restaurants, a lot sporting events, great park systems and outdoor stuff, etc....it's just an easy place to live and get around. There's a lot of stuff to do here and people that grew up in KY are really proud of their heritage in this state.

The big thing is people are really nice and really go out of there way to help you.

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post #27 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-21-2013, 05:53 PM
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I encourage all to come down and check it out.

Bourbon tours are a blast....YUM Arena is just a phenomenally nice arena for concerts and sporting events.

Health care is huge here....Humana, Anthem, etc all employee tons of people and do a lot of the processing for the nation here. UPS employees around 40K, (2) Ford plants, and logistics is becoming really big because of UPS and our central location in the U.S.

Amazon just built another 1 million sq. ft warehouse and hired 1,200 employees on top of the 3,500 at the other warehouse. They pay a little over $12 an hour. I saw in the Business First paper the other day that unoccupied warehouse space is down to 3.3% right now....they can't find enough big warehouse space to support big business.

CafePress just relocated from CA to here in the fall.....etc....

Sorry...got on my rant supporting Louisville...only 4.5 hrs. from downtown Chicago

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post #28 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-21-2013, 05:56 PM
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I had a buddy that had his own business in CA...said it was brutal and almost impossible to make money because of all the crap you had to provide for your employees and outrages taxes. It was cheaper for him to just work for himself than have 8 employees and deal with the headaches.

He moved back to England...after having been gone for 16 years...and said it was worse. Socialism was killing the country there and he moved back.

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