manual transmission+remote start=wet mustang*new info* - Chicagoland Sportbikes
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post #1 of 114 (permalink) Old 03-24-2010, 04:03 AM Thread Starter
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manual transmission+remote start=wet mustang*new info*

http://jalopnik.com/5500228/dealersh...d-car-totalled
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post #2 of 114 (permalink) Old 03-24-2010, 04:08 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Mustangforums member "luckydawg003" wasn't so lucky when he took his remote starter-equipped, manual transmission Mustang GT to Brandon Ford in Florida for some service. They remote-started the car in gear and it ended up submerged in a holding pond.

According to lucky, he was at the dealer to pick up his car after some warranty work when the service agent came out with some bad news. When he was going to get the car the agent remote-started the 'Stang while it was in gear with the parking brake off. The car fired up and took off through an empty parking spot, went under a chain link fence and powered itself into a holding pond off the dealer lot where it sank beneath the water.

The dealer has refused to admit responsibility for the incident claiming the lack of a neutral safety switch on the system absolves them of responsibility. The soggy Mustang is totaled and the matter is now in the hands of the insurance companies.

What do you think? Does the dealership owe this guy a new car or is the Mustang owner culpable for installing a remote start system on his car without a neutral safety switch (or for installing a remote starter on a manually equipped car in the first place)?
...
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post #3 of 114 (permalink) Old 03-24-2010, 04:33 AM
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ha! had a friend put his car through a garage door for the same thing.

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Oh he can drive. He can drive beyond the limits of the tires, the engine, the car or anything else.
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post #4 of 114 (permalink) Old 03-24-2010, 05:08 AM
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post #5 of 114 (permalink) Old 03-24-2010, 06:46 AM
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Buy a bike. Problem solved.


same friend did just that. (brand new gixxer 750) which he promptly totaled.

He's the comic relief.

Can't wait to see what he does with the harley he just bought.

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Oh he can drive. He can drive beyond the limits of the tires, the engine, the car or anything else.
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post #6 of 114 (permalink) Old 03-24-2010, 07:49 AM
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this is the reason most places wont install a remote start on a manual trans car for you... they dont want the liability and the neutral safety isnt easy on all cars

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post #7 of 114 (permalink) Old 03-24-2010, 07:58 AM
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I would never put one on a manual car. That sucks to be him but chances are the dealer will be responsible. They never should of used the remote start. It's not for their convenience.


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post #8 of 114 (permalink) Old 03-24-2010, 08:09 AM
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Dealer is liable as it was in their hands getting work done. But the guy is an idiot and installed in in an stickshift car. It's one less crapstang on the road

...plus my gf was with me saying "omg slow down, slow down" and I was thinking "Lose annoying squalk box in passenger seat, afford more mods and have less weight in the car and on the back of the bike"...so i dumped her and I'm single again as usual...HERE KITTY KITTY!!!
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post #9 of 114 (permalink) Old 03-24-2010, 08:13 AM
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In my opinion, the dealer is responsible. However, I believe it's illegal to defeat the safety switch, so they might be able to get out of it.

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post #10 of 114 (permalink) Old 03-24-2010, 08:32 AM
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I think the dealer is responsible. It was in their possession at the time of the incident. There are too many people/companies out there, that f up your stuff, then want you to pay for it. That is such BS. I give you my car to do work, you f it up, and now I'm responsible.

I had this happen on one of my vehicles. Took it in for an oil change, tire rotate, and replace fuel filter, they broke the clips that hold the fuel filter in and had to replace the fuel line, then wanted to charge me for the fuel line. I told them it wasn't broke when I dropped it off, and its been in your possession, so how is it my fault?

To many people not taking responsibility for their actions these days, care too much about making that dollar.
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post #11 of 114 (permalink) Old 03-24-2010, 08:41 AM
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I think it is owner fault. Fact is guy running for car may have had no idea car was a manual. This job usually done by someone making minimum wage as a runnuer and washing cars. It isn't like the dealership was neglectfull. If they didn't put the brake on and it rolled into the pond that is neglect. Unknowing of a bypassed safety switch isn't neglect. I say pay the deductable and stfu.

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post #12 of 114 (permalink) Old 03-24-2010, 08:49 AM
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I've always left my manual trans cars in neutral when I park them. N + ebrake = parked. It's just how I was taught. Only when I parked on steep de/inclines would I put it in gear too. It took a few times of dealers/porters leaving them in gear for me always check if they're out of gear when I start them.

I'd install a remote start on a mtx car but would take the fob off when I dropped it off anywhere. I've NEVER personally parked my mtx car and left it in gear (unless as in my example above).

Dude should have told the dealer not to use the remote start or taken the fob with him. Wouldn't it have just jumped forward a foot or so and stalled?
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post #13 of 114 (permalink) Old 03-24-2010, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero View Post
I've always left my manual trans cars in neutral when I park them. N + ebrake = parked. It's just how I was taught. Only when I parked on steep de/inclines would I put it in gear too. It took a few times of dealers/porters leaving them in gear for me always check if they're out of gear when I start them.

I'd install a remote start on a mtx car but would take the fob off when I dropped it off anywhere. I've NEVER personally parked my mtx car and left it in gear (unless as in my example above).

Dude should have told the dealer not to use the remote start or taken the fob with him. Wouldn't it have just jumped forward a foot or so and stalled?
they jump fotward and stall, then the starter tries to restart the engine, after a couple of tries it will start and take off. The starters have sensors to tell it if the vehicle has started and it will keep sending a start signal until the vehicle is started. Its not a one and done thing
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post #14 of 114 (permalink) Old 03-24-2010, 09:17 AM
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post #15 of 114 (permalink) Old 03-24-2010, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
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I think the dealer is responsible. It was in their possession at the time of the incident. There are too many people/companies out there, that f up your stuff, then want you to pay for it. That is such BS. I give you my car to do work, you f it up, and now I'm responsible.

I had this happen on one of my vehicles. Took it in for an oil change, tire rotate, and replace fuel filter, they broke the clips that hold the fuel filter in and had to replace the fuel line, then wanted to charge me for the fuel line. I told them it wasn't broke when I dropped it off, and its been in your possession, so how is it my fault?

To many people not taking responsibility for their actions these days, care too much about making that dollar.
I don't disagree with you about breaking something while doing work, like the filter clips. but there is not necessarily an easy way to know this had a remote start that was improper.

what if joe blow brings his car in to get worked on with nothing in the radiator. shop starts the car and it overheats and damages the head. who is responsible?

what if a customer had brakes that were totally shot and didn't tell some one (aside from going to a brake shop to get them fixed) and it was dangerous to drive the vehicle? so the first person to move it crashes into something because the vehicle was unsafe?

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post #16 of 114 (permalink) Old 03-24-2010, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derick View Post
they jump fotward and stall, then the starter tries to restart the engine, after a couple of tries it will start and take off. The starters have sensors to tell it if the vehicle has started and it will keep sending a start signal until the vehicle is started. Its not a one and done thing
Heh, you can tell I've never used a remote starter.
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post #17 of 114 (permalink) Old 03-24-2010, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
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they jump fotward and stall, then the starter tries to restart the engine, after a couple of tries it will start and take off. The starters have sensors to tell it if the vehicle has started and it will keep sending a start signal until the vehicle is started. Its not a one and done thing
MOST systems have a 3x no start limit. if it doesn't start after 3x, it will stop trying. However it can crank a significant time during each try. maybe 10sec? Also, many cars, if unrestricted, can start upon a crank in gear with no brake restriction.

I worked with a guy that had a cable clutch on his mazda that broke. He drove it for a few months by no clutch shifting it and shutting it off and restarting in first at stop lights. pop car in neutral, come to a stop, shut car off, engage first, crank engine, off you go. not safe in anyway, but it did work.

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post #18 of 114 (permalink) Old 03-24-2010, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiofyl View Post
I don't disagree with you about breaking something while doing work, like the filter clips. but there is not necessarily an easy way to know this had a remote start that was improper.

what if joe blow brings his car in to get worked on with nothing in the radiator. shop starts the car and it overheats and damages the head. who is responsible?

what if a customer had brakes that were totally shot and didn't tell some one (aside from going to a brake shop to get them fixed) and it was dangerous to drive the vehicle? so the first person to move it crashes into something because the vehicle was unsafe?
I'm not saying that shops should be responsible for everything, ie. you bring it in for brakes and the radiator blows up. But if you bring it in for brakes and the bend a rim, these 2 are correlated.

Now granted there is no way to know if someone overrode the safety switch on a remote start, but they do make remote starts for manual trans.
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post #19 of 114 (permalink) Old 03-24-2010, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingit View Post
I think it is owner fault. Fact is guy running for car may have had no idea car was a manual. This job usually done by someone making minimum wage as a runnuer and washing cars. It isn't like the dealership was neglectfull. If they didn't put the brake on and it rolled into the pond that is neglect. Unknowing of a bypassed safety switch isn't neglect. I say pay the deductable and stfu.
I couldn't disagree more. The dealership was neglectful. They took possession of property and through misuse of the remote start caused damage to the car. It doesn't matter that the person working the job makes minimum wage or $100k a year, they screwed up and the dealership will eventually pay.

Also, why did they use the remote-start to being with? If it wasn't necessary to use it then they shouldn't have. Yes, the dealership will pay for this one.

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post #20 of 114 (permalink) Old 03-24-2010, 10:59 AM
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I couldn't disagree more. The dealership was neglectful. They took possession of property and through misuse of the remote start caused damage to the car. It doesn't matter that the person working the job makes minimum wage or $100k a year, they screwed up and the dealership will eventually pay.

Also, why did they use the remote-start to being with? If it wasn't necessary to use it then they shouldn't have. Yes, the dealership will pay for this one.
I disagree. The owner of the car had the remote start hooked up and it was installed wrong. Doesnt say who installed it but the fact is that its still installed wrong. If it was properly installed we wouldnt be having this discussion. Are you telling me that if a friend asked you to make a mp3 cd and when you went to play it the radio in there car all the sudden had some shorted wires that its your fault for his shotty work?

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post #21 of 114 (permalink) Old 03-24-2010, 11:15 AM
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Gee, my Subie's starter will not even engage unless the clutch is fully depressed.

Haven't driven an American stick shift in years, don't they work the same?

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post #22 of 114 (permalink) Old 03-24-2010, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tripod View Post
Gee, my Subie's starter will not even engage unless the clutch is fully depressed.

Haven't driven an American stick shift in years, don't they work the same?
You need to disable the neutral safety switch on any modern manual car to install a remote starter. Thus, it can start without the clutch pedal being pressed.
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post #23 of 114 (permalink) Old 03-24-2010, 11:20 AM
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It's very simple to bypass the neutral safety switch when auto starting a car. Depending one the car, eith send it 12v, or earth, depending on the vehicle.

**edit Damn you Zero!

I worked in car audio for some time. I wouldn't install auto start on a stick, and I never had it on any of my cars that were stick. It's a liability I don't want.
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post #24 of 114 (permalink) Old 03-24-2010, 11:21 AM
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Why did the dumb porter remote start the car? Probably because he thought it would be cool to do so. Porter works for dealer, dealer is responsible. Wouldn't the dealer be responsible for damage to a high end stereo system if the retard porter decided to change some settings and flip some switches? Dumbass shouldn't have been messing with the shit to begin with.
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post #25 of 114 (permalink) Old 03-24-2010, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
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Gee, my Subie's starter will not even engage unless the clutch is fully depressed.

Haven't driven an American stick shift in years, don't they work the same?
They do. You have to delete or work around safety systems to get the remote starter to work, then every time you park you have to leave the car in neutral with the e-brake set. So you have to deliberately do things wrong in order to make it work. The Dealer may be liable legally but this guy is a jackass for setting up his car like that.

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post #26 of 114 (permalink) Old 03-24-2010, 11:36 AM
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Dealership not responsible for this incident. Everyplace I've worked or been to wont even put a remote start in a manual plus if there was a step that was bipassed that was a safety measure so something like this wouldn't happen then it definatly isn't their fault. Pay the deductible and get over it.

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post #27 of 114 (permalink) Old 03-24-2010, 11:47 AM
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FFS who pressed the button????
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post #28 of 114 (permalink) Old 03-24-2010, 11:49 AM
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Back in the dark ages when I learned to drive, we were taught to never trust the parking brake, and always leave the car in either First or Reverse.

That said, there are a number of wrongs here.

1) Improperly installed remote starter that allowed starting in gear

2) Dealer employee left car in gear after moving it to parking spot, and did not set the Parking Brake.

3) The Porter should NOT have used the remote start. It's Florida! WTF! It's not like it's cold or anything!

I think it's on the dealer. Two wrongs don't make a right.

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post #29 of 114 (permalink) Old 03-24-2010, 11:53 AM
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Since everyone is split, time to make this a 50/50. Both insurance companies will pay half the cost.

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post #30 of 114 (permalink) Old 03-24-2010, 12:05 PM
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FFS who pressed the button????
Doesnt matter. Faulty equipment shouldn't affect a third party that has nothing to do with it. Its not like they were blasting the radio and messing with a high end sound system. For all you know he started the car so he could bring it from around back to the customer in the parking lot.

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