With another recent post of potential "Degree" opportunities and knowing the large dynamic of people we have on the board, I figured I'd throw this up here to see what kind of feedback some of you may have, and would love to hear some different opinions and points of view.

My situation:

Been out of highschool since "99" and after 10 years decided to go back to school with that said, I'm about half way through my Associates at ITT Technical Institute and after being in school about a year, it seems I'm not so bad at this and I'm DEF intending on getting my Bachelors. So based on some prior discussion with some pretty elite level professionals in the field, I do NOT believe I will be planning on obtaining my Bachelors from the same Institute (I feel the need to obtain my Bachelors from a more prestiges school) and I do intend on further discussing some future options with these same people to potentially establish a better understanding of what companies are looking for in competitive candidates but would love to hear any feedback from people familiar with the field.

I am currently working towards my AS in "Computer Networking Systems" and I originally begin to think I would consider pursuing my Bachelors in "Information Security" but after some discussion, I'm now considering a Bachelors in Project Management in efforts to Diversify my resume/education and down the line after I can put some relevant real world experience underneath my belt THEN tailoring my education more specifically and pursuing my masters in Information security.

THOUGHTS?

(Sorry if a bit lengthy, but wanted to explain the whole picture. Got a lot to figure out and wanna line myself up as well as I can.)

I would go after the IT degree first.

Well I'm getting the associates IT degree, but your saying you think I should extend the IT degree as stated above?

^ i agree w what bek said. get your associate's first. then decided. things might change

Yea I agree, but the associates is spoken for, I'm already half way done with that, and don't intend on changing things around at this level. I'm more inquiring about the Bachelors...

I have to qualify what I'll say with this: I haven't looked up the course curriculum for Project Management. That said, by title alone, I would classify this the same as a liberal arts business degree, which IMHO, is totally useless as the ROI isn't there. We do large project management. If I am looking to hire someone and have two applicants, one with a project management degree and another with 5 to 10 years of project management experience with no degree I would hire the experience 10 times out of 10. To me this sounds like another revenue generator for the colleges that really don't have demand for the students (regardless of what the school is saying...).

IT is a great field, albeit, a little over populated with folks who can do the normal/typical IT tasks. I see a huge gap in the industry with regard to industrial automation systems and how they tie to business systems (hardware and software). In almost two decades of working with industrial automation systems I have yet to meet up with a corporate IT dude that talks my talk which presents a very unique and in demand niche market. If we could find a *really* sharp IT person that understands the needs of the industrial side as well as the needs of the business side we would hire them instantly. More and more companies want that real time production information coming direct from the factory floors. The only way to gather that information and put it into databases commonly used throughout the business world (i.e. AS400) is via an HMI (SCADA)/PLC. Understanding how to design a system to bridge that gap and troubleshoot hardware and software problems on both the industrial and business side would be a very valuable skill set (salary in the 100K ++ range with experience).

I see you are in Plainfield. My company is in New Lenox. If you'd like a tour and an idea of what I am talking about shoot me a PM.

+1000

Excellent Feedback! And I thank you for taking the time to enlighten me on that particular area of opportunity! I also must say that pretty much EXACTLY what you said, a E.E. buddy of mine said almost verbatim. I just may take you up on your offer sometime. Thanks again!

(And please feel free to correct me, but I COMPLETELY agree that it seems like a full blown BA in "Project Management" seems a little soft with little desirability then some others, but would I be way off in saying that having a IT minor/AS and a BA in "Project Management" wouldn't look better since I'll have a bit more of a diversified education platform? And exposure to the IT environment?) Again, I'm just getting my feet wet with all this and it's a DEEP pond!

Btw "ROI", long version please? lol

how are you doing?

hmmm, I have a Bachelors of Arts degree in Accounting, Bachelors of Arts in Business with an emphasis in Information Systems, almost a Bachelors of Science in Computer Science Info systems, those two certs and by the end of the month another class in MSQL 2008 under my belt. Oh and almost 10 years of experience in IT as a programmer, webmaster, systems admin, network admin, database admin, IT manager, CIO. etc etc.

As long as that 100k is flexible, we can work

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OP, are you willing to relocate? I'm actually hiring for a help desk position.

IT is a strange field that is populated by many folks without a formal education that succeed by their experience. If you take those folks out of the equation and focus on school degrees and jobs they can get you, an associates degree in this day and age is kind of worthless. I take it that you know this, as you will be pursuing your bachelors. I would recommend getting a bachelors in IT and if you can minor or just do a number of elective courses in project management, that could help you in the long run. Without experience you will not be running projects, so a core degree in IS will help you get this experience. I believe there are certificate programs or certifications for PM, research those and try to add them to your resume and that will help you down the line.

Yea this seems like a reasonable point of view, thanks for that!

And yes you are correct, there are MANY different "CERTS" in this field and I ABSOLUTELY intend on pursuing any/all that apply.

Return on investment.

One more thought. It might be early to know this, but do you know what kind of work you would like to do. I know many folks in various IS fields, and some enjoy what they do and some don’t. Also, some make good bank and others scrape by. Knowing what interests you, as in doing it 8+ hours a day will help you decide on what elective courses to take. Also, plenty of IS folks on this site that I am sure you know, talk to them about their jobs, they can give you the dirty on what doing their job really entails. Like with any job, a description of it might seem all rosy, but once you are doing it day in and day out, it might not be what you had in mind.
Again, good luck.

I have an EET from ITT and I'm going back for Technical Project Management right now. All of my schooling through ITT I have been able to apply direclty to my job.

Be careful trying to transfer credits to a state school though. They more than likely won't transfer over.

+1 Yea for sure! I've already done a FAIR share of research and inquiring, and the one thing I KNOW I have no interest in doing is anything around code/programming language. I'm sure, I'll step into some lame help desk position doing BARELY more then I know how to do already but in the long run based on what I know now (which isn't a whole heck of a lot ha) I'm wouldn't mind running admin support on corporate environments and/or LAN support for a while but my interest as of now is wandering around the "IS" environment with my mentality being that since the concept of "networking" matures, securing corporate/proprietary information is now and will in continue to increase in importance.... And thats about all I got for now

Nick thats actually what I STARTED in but I changed my major last quarter. So now I have a random DC electronics class in my portfolio lol.

I work in the electronic / electrical field so I'm always playing with electronics, software, high voltage in the rain ect...

If I wouldn't have been able to apply it I would have dropped out and went to the military. My job kept my interest in school. Plus they pay 375 a credit hour.

Programming isn't that bad, especially database stuff with SQL and SQL Reporting services. I started out programming in with visual fox pro, VB6 and sql. Two semesters of OOP programming in Java and most of the programming I use is from a semester of database management systems. Well that and now delving into PLC's with RSLogix 5000.

Tom, I could keep you busy and give you some practical experience with real life business problems. Really I'm looking for someone in school right now to hire on as an intern and eventually work it into a full time position. Yeah, some of the help desk stuff is just common sense, but you'll get to build computers, work with VPN's, servers, VoIP, AD, multiple domains and networks, and if you're interested I can teach you SQL and how to generate reports with reporting services.

Also, keep note of who you are talking to about advice getting a degree. A lot of the people who have traditional university degrees dislike the tech schools. Maybe its because they can't find a job and the people with the tech degrees can? Who knows. Some people put themselves a little too high up on their pedistal when it comes to education. My tech school degree and 10 years experience is worth more than 2 bachelors degrees and masters degree with no work experience.

I suggest do the best you can to get a job in your field of study ASAP. Even if you have to take somewhat of a pay cut. It will pay off in the long run.

What do I know though? Everyone is different. You get out of your education what you choose to.

Get a teaching cert and be off all summer....

Forget everything else. Get a bachelors in IT or info security or whatever technical route interests you. A bachelors in project management is worthless.

Project management can be (and should be, IMHO) learned on the job.

The other input I have is this: companies do not want to hire someone with their own ideas about management, etc. Especially someone right out of school. If they want new ideas about management, they hire a new CEO, or they hire consultants. Internally, they want good technical people to do whatever it is they "do." They will then train those people to fit into their corporate culture and management style (for those who they deem management worthy).

Get a good solid technical background under your belt, and you have an in. Management responsibilites can only be earned the hard way.


And a side note-- I don't disagree with grasshopper that sticking to your current path is a good idea. Technical degrees are great. But if you are interested in getting a bachelors and you're deciding between tehcnical or managerial, I vote technical.

lol sounds safe! Along with your armored corp jungle hideouts you've been posted at!

Yea man, My job pays 100% 493 a credit hour.... SICCCCCCCK! So I'm taking it for what I can!

And yea, honestly one of the biggest reasons I decided to get out of that course/field is because as you know, that industry is heavily geared towards field work and I really didn't feel like working outside again.

BRO..... YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW BADLY I'D LOOOOOOOOOVE TO TAKE YOU UP ON YOUR OFFER!!!! The only rough part is,
A.) The money situation in an intern position probably wouldn't be sufficient to what I need.

But largely and most importantly.... My company is paying for 100% of my school tuition and I just Can't walk on that ya know But I'm DYING for some real world exposure BAD!!!!

The people I'm referring too, are current instructors with a minimum of a masters and 10-15yrs experience in the field and of course.... These "Conversations" take place OFF THE RECORD!

Nah you sound like you got your head twisted on the rite way

The hardest thing about me doing just that (I'd do it in a second if I could) is the fact that I'm having a 45k bill footed by my company and as much as Id give for a real world position to start building my resume I just can't walk away from that perk. Catch 22 and a half!

Out of everything you just said (which all made perfect sense) I REALLY like this point of view, I've worked in a corporate environment for a pretty long time and I really couldn't agree with you any more on this! Excellent point!

+1

tech school is 45k !

I thought the private college I went to for 18g a year was bad, and I only had to pay that for 4 years and they gave me almost 3 bachelors degrees for it.

shoot state school in WI for residents is only like 5,000 a year. Move to WI, intern for me and go to a state university once you're a resident, stay 5 years and we can talk tuition reimbursement.

Yea man, 493 per credit hour!!! Shit aint cheap! It's ITT.

"Stay 5 years and we can talk tuition reimbursement" In 5 years I wanna be DONE!

did you consider IIT? if i had that doe to drop, i would have went there.

Isn't IIT a bit prestigious and require a fairly vigorous entrance exam?

Which probably requires you can spell prestigious correctly

It's a really good school. Just uber expensive. 25k a year

they might be a bit more picky on students. the application is a lot more lengthy then most.

Check out the WIRED grant. There is a lot of money available for improving and educating the work force. The wired grant focuses on industrial automation, robots, PLC's, etc. The two classes I took on PLC programming only cost my company the cost of the books. MATC Madison Area Technical college went around to all the local businesses particularly those that use industrial automation and basically created the class based on a need they saw.