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post #1 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-30-2012, 04:08 PM Thread Starter
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What is going on with Chicago

Can anyone explain WTF is in the water the last three months where we have 114 deaths in three months in the city

I mean really 39 shootings 10 dead and a cop shot in one weekend.

last night 13 shot wtf now i am thinking twice about returning.

Hell I was back for a day last week and at 28th and kildare when a guy got shot 3 times in the alley at 2pm in the afternoon. sadly i have the aftermath part of it caught by iphone as they loaded him in a bag and into the ambulance

Its getting a bit to idiotic there with these gangs if you ask me

go time traveler style and go back in time, fuck his grandma, then shoot forward in time and then fuck his mom. Then return back to present state and call him a the product of two incest whores and hes your son and show video of you plowing the both members of his family. .
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post #2 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-30-2012, 04:11 PM
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What about Trayvon? He is more important than all of these people!
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post #3 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-30-2012, 04:14 PM
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Warm weather. Nobody wants to go on a killing spree when it's below zero outside, and it's tough to do drive-bys in the snow. Just got an early start this year that's all. Just like every year it'll taper off toward mid-summer after all the winter grudges have been settled and it's time to reload.

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post #4 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-30-2012, 04:15 PM
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What about Trayvon? He is more important than all of these people!
+1 because that was a racist shooting.
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post #5 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-30-2012, 04:20 PM Thread Starter
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Warm weather. Nobody wants to go on a killing spree when it's below zero outside, and it's tough to do drive-bys in the snow. Just got an early start this year that's all. Just like every year it'll taper off toward mid-summer after all the winter grudges have been settled and it's time to reload.
I dunno they way the are killing each other and cops something says its going to be a long summer in general

go time traveler style and go back in time, fuck his grandma, then shoot forward in time and then fuck his mom. Then return back to present state and call him a the product of two incest whores and hes your son and show video of you plowing the both members of his family. .
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post #6 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-30-2012, 04:24 PM
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Actually that is right on track. Chicago had around 420-30 last year and in the 430's for 2010. Thank god we can't have handguns here or someone might get hurt.

Edit: We can have handguns now. I guess that explains it.

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post #7 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-30-2012, 06:57 PM
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Chicago New York and Washington have the strongest handgun laws in the nation and the incidents of violent crime with guns has increased in all three cites. Yet everywhere that they have concelled carry violent gun crime goes down. What is it that these people don't get? Bangers will have guns no matter what.
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post #8 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-30-2012, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Strek View Post
Chicago New York and Washington have the strongest handgun laws in the nation and the incidents of violent crime with guns has increased in all three cites. Yet everywhere that they have concelled carry violent gun crime goes down. What is it that these people don't get? Bangers will have guns no matter what.
So...more guns equals less gun violence? Last I checked, murder is illegal, and yet people still choose to murder. Perhaps consequences don't matter so much when you reach that point in your mentality / desperation?

If I was in the mood to murder someone, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't matter much to me if they had a concealed weapon handy.

There are lots of cases to be made for relaxed gun control laws, this however is not one of them.

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post #9 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-30-2012, 07:45 PM
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al these shootings in chicago are impossible. Guns aren't allowed in Chicago.




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post #10 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-30-2012, 08:04 PM
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chicago new york and washington have the strongest handgun laws in the nation and the incidents of violent crime with guns has increased in all three cites. Yet everywhere that they have concelled carry violent gun crime goes down. What is it that these people don't get? Bangers will have guns no matter what.
+1

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post #11 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-30-2012, 08:08 PM
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So...more guns equals less gun violence? Last I checked, murder is illegal, and yet people still choose to murder. Perhaps consequences don't matter so much when you reach that point in your mentality / desperation?

If I was in the mood to murder someone, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't matter much to me if they had a concealed weapon handy.

There are lots of cases to be made for relaxed gun control laws, this however is not one of them.
But YOU are absolutely wrong here! Your whole premise actually makes no sense. The average decrease in random gun crime in EVERY large populated area where Conceal carry OR open carry has become allowed is 33%! That's a 1/3 reduction! Suddenly you have armed and trained citizens that are ready, willing and ABLE to LEGALLY shoot criminals as soon as they make their move!
Most CPD I personally know are 100% in favor of the law abiding being armed and able to protect themselves EVEN WITH DEADLY FORCE, IF NECESSARY.

The reason the gangbangers are shooting it up is because with strict gun laws that restrict the law abiding from owning and using guns there is very little chance that someone will shoot back!

Sort of makes the saying "When guns are outlawed only the outlaws will have guns" all the more true AND UNDERSTANDABLE!

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post #12 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-30-2012, 08:10 PM
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But YOU are absolutely wrong here! Your whole premise actually makes no sense. The average decrease in random gun crime in EVERY large populated area where Conceal carry OR open carry has become allowed is 33%! That's a 1/3 reduction! Suddenly you have armed and trained citizens that are ready, willing and ABLE to LEGALLY shoot criminals as soon as they make their move!
Most CPD I personally know are 100% in favor of the law abiding being armed and able to protect themselves EVEN WITH DEADLY FORCE, IF NECESSARY.

The reason the gangbangers are shooting it up is because with strict gun laws that restrict the law abiding from owning and using guns there is very little chance that someone will shoot back!

Sort of makes the saying "When guns are outlawed only the outlaws will have guns" all the more true AND UNDERSTANDABLE!
Also its akin to a safe workplace act for criminals. less guns means safer workplace for criminals.




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post #13 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-30-2012, 08:29 PM
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Handguns ARE allowed in Chicago now. Lets hope they don't blame the extra deaths on the new handgun laws now. Low life pussys who hide behind gangs will always be low life pieces of shit regardless of laws. News flash, they do not obey laws.

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post #14 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-30-2012, 08:35 PM
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Handguns ARE allowed in Chicago now. Lets hope they don't blame the extra deaths on the new handgun laws now. Low life pussys who hide behind gangs will always be low life pieces of shit regardless of laws. News flash, they do not obey laws.
Try explaining this to the low life's running the city.

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post #15 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-30-2012, 09:05 PM
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But YOU are absolutely wrong here! Your whole premise actually makes no sense. The average decrease in random gun crime in EVERY large populated area where Conceal carry OR open carry has become allowed is 33%! That's a 1/3 reduction! Suddenly you have armed and trained citizens that are ready, willing and ABLE to LEGALLY shoot criminals as soon as they make their move!
Most CPD I personally know are 100% in favor of the law abiding being armed and able to protect themselves EVEN WITH DEADLY FORCE, IF NECESSARY.

The reason the gangbangers are shooting it up is because with strict gun laws that restrict the law abiding from owning and using guns there is very little chance that someone will shoot back!

Sort of makes the saying "When guns are outlawed only the outlaws will have guns" all the more true AND UNDERSTANDABLE!
*sigh

Reading comprehension isn't for everyone. I get that. Let me help you with this:

- MURDER is a CRIME
- Not all CRIME is MURDER

Letting everyone in Walmart wander around with a gun on their hip might deter CRIME as the studies suggest. However, there is no statistical evidence anywhere to suggest that it will somehow decrease the MURDER rate in Chicago or elsewhere.

So back to my statement then shall we? This thread is about the MURDER rate in Chicago. More guns doesn't mean less dead people.

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post #16 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-31-2012, 12:12 AM
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My reading comprehension is fine, thank you very much...your premise is still senseless in context.
You asked the question: "So...more guns equals less violence?" Which in context to the post you were responding to was a negative against conceal carry. That is senseless in the context BECAUSE...As I posted, where conceal carry has been allowed gun crime has been reduced by an average of 33%...Not all gun crimes result in murder but all murders resulting from gun crime CAN be reduced with conceal (or open) carry BECAUSE it reduces gun crime overall.
So...to answer your question...YES...more guns (in the proper hands) CAN equal less violence!

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post #17 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-31-2012, 12:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Underdog View Post
*sigh

Reading comprehension isn't for everyone. I get that. Let me help you with this:

- MURDER is a CRIME
- Not all CRIME is MURDER

Letting everyone in Walmart wander around with a gun on their hip might deter CRIME as the studies suggest. However, there is no statistical evidence anywhere to suggest that it will somehow decrease the MURDER rate in Chicago or elsewhere.

So back to my statement then shall we? This thread is about the MURDER rate in Chicago. More guns doesn't mean less dead people.

Have a swell day.
Guns don't kill people

People Kill people.

They can kill you with a bat. A knife. A gun.

Statistics show that where tight gun laws have gone into place violent gun crimes increase. In particular murder commited with guns increases. Gun laws have more of an impact on taking guns out of good peoples hands than it does the criminals. So the statistics would say that murder has a better chance of decreasing if good people had guns. Even in Chicago the gun murder rates have gone up in particular since the stronger gun laws. If you look into it the statistics are pretty consistent everyplace that stricter gun laws have gone into place. I'm not saying that Chicago's increase is only tied to the stronger Gun laws but I would say that it is the biggest contributor. Chicago has a growning gang problem. Many of our current city government are ex gang bangers. Police departments that continue to get depleted at the expense of their ability to do their jobs. Ask them. Heck its on the news you don't even need to ask them. Soon fewer police department locations. Wonder how well that is going to work out. Think of the average response time on a 911 call. Now think that the responder may be coming from a further distance depending on how many officers might be rolling vs just coming on or off duty from a station that is now further away. I got this from a friend of mine. Her father is a Chicago Police officer and sent it to her.
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post #18 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-31-2012, 01:00 AM
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Strange that "criminals" are killing people in chicago with guns since the 1970s when they are illegal. wait, isn't murder and guns illegal? wait its till happening for the last 40 years. Chicago has been democratic rule for so many decades and Chicago is the top 5 in deadliest cities.
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post #19 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-31-2012, 05:26 AM
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they dont get it, i lived with these gang bangers and dealt with them for over three years, over 6 months with them in CCDOC, div 5,6,14, its plain survival on a day to day basis, they think someone might come after them they shoot first, it really a savage mentality. They dont care about gun laws, they'd rather risk getting a UUW then getting shot. They will never fix this shit unless they reinstate the death penalty but that would have to be harsh - like cleaning out death row every month and feed mofos to lions and shit and televise it pay per view. I dont see anything changing, especially when you have Nickle bag herion tips making $10k a day on one corner.

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post #20 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-31-2012, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by under200 View Post
Handguns ARE allowed in Chicago now. Lets hope they don't blame the extra deaths on the new handgun laws now. Low life pussys who hide behind gangs will always be low life pieces of shit regardless of laws. News flash, they do not obey laws.
Hey now, be nice, even my drug dealer pays taxes.
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post #21 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-31-2012, 10:03 AM
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You asked the question: "So...more guns equals less violence?" Which in context to the post you were responding to was a negative against conceal carry. That is senseless in the context BECAUSE...As I posted, where conceal carry has been allowed gun crime has been reduced by an average of 33%...Not all gun crimes result in murder but all murders resulting from gun crime CAN be reduced with conceal (or open) carry BECAUSE it reduces gun crime overall.
So...to answer your question...YES...more guns (in the proper hands) CAN equal less violence!
Here's the thing: I agree with Underdog that just handing out pistol permits isn't going to cut the number of people being shot. It might help the murder rate, but only on the technical basis that, when the would-be victim shoots back, and kills the would-be murderer, it's not murder but self-defense; the body count, however, remains the same. I also agree that many murders, probably the vast majority of them, are planned out in advance. In those cases, the murderer is just going to take the victim's gun into account in the plan, and charge ahead anyway.

So, no, chances are very good that dropping gun control altogether won't do one thing to reduce gun violence in the City. People that were going to kill people while guns weren't legal are probably still going to do it once guns become legal. The one thing it might do is to eliminate the AUUW charge from any indictment that follows.

Now, gun control is pretty much irrelevant to any of that; obviously, shootings are going on now on the streets of Chicago, and the fact that many of the victims are, in fact, armed, is one reason why drive-by (and bike-by) shootings are so popular. It's not like a blanket ban on public armaments is helping things much, so there's a good argument to be made that it should be repealed. But it should be obvious that an awful lot of people should not carry guns in public: the anxious, the insane, the felons, the people with bad aim, and many more. I can't go along with the popular notion (now put into practice, ineffectually, by the "Constitutional Carry" faction downstate) that letting them pack heat is a good idea or is going to do one iota of good reducing crime. So, let me follow up the question: you mention that the guns should be in the proper hands. Whose hands are those?

You mentioned above that allowing public carry leads to having "armed and trained citizens that are ready, willing and ABLE to LEGALLY shoot criminals as soon as they make their move!" Are you suggesting that some form of control is still needed, to ensure that the armed citizens are, in fact, ready, willing and able? Will they be obligated to learn what moves by the criminal justify shooting? Will they be held to account if they decide that a criminal turning and running away is enough of a move to warrant being shot, or if the "criminal" turns out not to be?

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post #22 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-31-2012, 10:27 AM
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So, let me follow up the question: you mention that the guns should be in the proper hands. Whose hands are those?

You mentioned above that allowing public carry leads to having "armed and trained citizens that are ready, willing and ABLE to LEGALLY shoot criminals as soon as they make their move!" Are you suggesting that some form of control is still needed, to ensure that the armed citizens are, in fact, ready, willing and able? Will they be obligated to learn what moves by the criminal justify shooting? Will they be held to account if they decide that a criminal turning and running away is enough of a move to warrant being shot, or if the "criminal" turns out not to be?
I think I'll chime in at this point, and share my views on concealed carry.

First, I believe that CCW should be "shall issue," that is if you apply, meet all background qualifications, and meet all training criteria, then the state must/shall issue a CCW. But personally I place heavier focus on training criteria.

While I believe we the people should have the right to have CCW available to us, I believe that similar to a driver's license, that training criteria must first be met. But unlike the joke that is Driver's Ed, I believe CCW training must be much more stringent and intense. First, I would require a significant classroom cirriculum involving the legalities of CCW, and our responsibilities as armed citizens. Beyond that, then I would require far more training than simple range proficiency and firearm handling that is often required today. Then I would add re-qualification requirements on a regular basis (annual at a minimum).

Ideally speaking, this would help to reduce and limit CCW to those who can not only prove their proficiency, but have been well educated regarding what they must and must not do, as a CCW carrier. Of course, all of the training in the world cannot filter out all riff raff, but that can be said about anything. But that is how I would ensure that CCW remains in "proper hands."
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post #23 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-31-2012, 10:42 AM
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Then I would add re-qualification requirements on a regular basis (annual at a minimum).
eehk.

three years would be my preference. Yearly is a pain in the ass enough for my license plate sticker with a free ass fisting cost each time.

The state would price jack it to screw folks over.

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post #24 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-31-2012, 10:46 AM
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^^^ In a word...Yes. In no place where conceal carry is allowed are citizens allowed to just obtain permits and carry weapons. They must go through a rather stringent course and PASS said course to the satisfaction of the pro instructor giving the course. I have no problem with that as a requirement to be allowed to carry a firearm. I also would have no problem with a mandatory gun safety course for those who don't wish to carry but want to have a firearm in their home.

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post #25 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-31-2012, 01:20 PM
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eehk.

three years would be my preference. Yearly is a pain in the ass enough for my license plate sticker with a free ass fisting cost each time.

The state would price jack it to screw folks over.
Shooting skills degrade fast over time, without practice. Many law enforcement agencies only require a basic 50 round range requalification annually. That is not adequate enough, as evidenced by how many LEOs are poor shooters. If you don't maintain a solid level of shooting proficiency, what makes you think you'll be able to engage a threat effectively as well?
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post #26 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-31-2012, 06:12 PM
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Shooting skills degrade fast over time, without practice. Many law enforcement agencies only require a basic 50 round range requalification annually. That is not adequate enough, as evidenced by how many LEOs are poor shooters. If you don't maintain a solid level of shooting proficiency, what makes you think you'll be able to engage a threat effectively as well?

i do agree with regimented practice. But the issue is that when you mandate and control something via the govt.

The piper must be paid and thats where I have issue with it.
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post #27 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-31-2012, 07:19 PM
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i do agree with regimented practice. But the issue is that when you mandate and control something via the govt.

The piper must be paid and thats where I have issue with it.
Are you at odds with the fact that the government "controls" it... or that it costs us more?

The government will have to exert control, to issue permits. There's no way around it - deal.

And Uncle Sam is poor... I'll pay a REASONABLE fee to both ensure that:
1. I am allowed to maintain the right to protect myself...
2. I am forced to prove that I have maintained an adequate level of proficiency, to be trusted with use of deadly force
3. Other permit holds are held to the same minimum standard of proficiency in the use of deadly force
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post #28 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-31-2012, 07:23 PM
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And Uncle Sam is poor... I'll pay a REASONABLE fee to both ensure that:


Key component.


"If you give the mouse a cookie"

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post #29 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-31-2012, 07:40 PM
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The government charges a fee and licenses our ability to drive vehicles on public roads...
Which is not a perfect example but taking it further and citing a more efficient example...The government licenses pilots and sets requirements that they must maintain proficiency and qualify regularly...that one works pretty good...I wouldn't expect anything less for citizens that will have deadly force at their disposal...AND it's accomplished by using the private sector to verify that proficiency.

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post #30 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-31-2012, 08:40 PM Thread Starter
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Wow city shock i want to go back to KY and i just got home

go time traveler style and go back in time, fuck his grandma, then shoot forward in time and then fuck his mom. Then return back to present state and call him a the product of two incest whores and hes your son and show video of you plowing the both members of his family. .
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