Romney and Bain - Chicagoland Sportbikes
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post #1 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-17-2012, 12:28 PM Thread Starter
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Romney and Bain

So why is this guy being attacked viciously (by both Republicans and Democrats) for running a venture capital firm that restructures companies that are in trouble?

Yeah, he's making a profit off if it, but if these companies were left as is, they'd very likely go out of business.

Am I missing something?

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post #2 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-17-2012, 12:39 PM
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Bain likes to pump up their acquisitions with unsustainable debt(loans) then strip out any equity by paying out management fees to themselves and divident dispersements. Nothing left to sustain massive debt and company folds. Good thing Bain got their fees after the loans and before the fold! Great business!

Also beats up on Batman.


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post #3 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-17-2012, 12:42 PM Thread Starter
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post #4 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-17-2012, 01:00 PM
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Bain likes to pump up their acquisitions with unsustainable debt(loans) then strip out any equity by paying out management fees to themselves and divident dispersements. Nothing left to sustain massive debt and company folds. Good thing Bain got their fees after the loans and before the fold! Great business!

Also beats up on Batman.
A private equity company can't continue to exist this way. It's also a pretty big generalization to sum up every one of a private equity companies investments with this objective. You don't become a successful PE company by bankrupting companies. You become successful by building them bigger and selling them. Of course, this doesn't always work, and you'll get a bad situation where the skeptics come out and make accusations like these.

To the OP, it's politics! It's just another perception being pushed on the public by opponents to try and discredit what Romney has achieved and his ability to lead this country. I'm not saying he's right/wrong for Pres, but you have to read between the lines when these political attacks are flying around.

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post #5 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-17-2012, 01:04 PM
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I didn't say all PE companies do this, but Bain has done it more than once. I think they were even fined for it as it's illegal, though the fine is less than they made by doing this so what's the deterrent?

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post #6 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-17-2012, 01:07 PM
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Bain is a pretty solid company - Did the buy out of A.T Kearney ever take place? - Now THEY have a pretty slick little model and are a tightly run ship that is pretty small and profitable

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post #7 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-17-2012, 01:12 PM
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I didn't say all PE companies do this, but Bain has done it more than once. I think they were even fined for it as it's illegal, though the fine is less than they made by doing this so what's the deterrent?
The market itself is the deterant. Obviously, neither one us have the numbers to prove what you are incinuating really happened. IMO, it very well could be that Bain had made some bad investments. They take fees and div dispursements to minimize risk. When investments go bad they scramble to cover costs, which you might be looking at as pillaging. But, they still lost a huge investment. You might find they didn't even break even on the transaction after their investment loss and restructuring expenses. That's not the PE objective. They want to make money, and they'll make a lot more of it if everyone succeeds in the transaction.

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post #8 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-17-2012, 01:20 PM
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i read it somewhere, feel free to research yourself.

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post #9 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-17-2012, 01:43 PM
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i read it somewhere, feel free to research yourself.
The problem is, these are private co's. We can read articles fabricated by the media to support both theories, I'm sure. Bottom line for me is I trust market to weed out the bad guys. I'm pretty sure you don't. So we could debate it all day.

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post #10 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-17-2012, 01:48 PM
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The market itself is the deterant. Obviously, neither one us have the numbers to prove what you are incinuating really happened. IMO, it very well could be that Bain had made some bad investments. They take fees and div dispursements to minimize risk. When investments go bad they scramble to cover costs, which you might be looking at as pillaging. But, they still lost a huge investment. You might find they didn't even break even on the transaction after their investment loss and restructuring expenses. That's not the PE objective. They want to make money, and they'll make a lot more of it if everyone succeeds in the transaction.
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post #11 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-17-2012, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vcook View Post
Bain likes to pump up their acquisitions with unsustainable debt(loans) then strip out any equity by paying out management fees to themselves and divident dispersements. Nothing left to sustain massive debt and company folds. Good thing Bain got their fees after the loans and before the fold! Great business!

Also beats up on Batman.


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Look, I can appreciate this. I was young too, I felt just like you. Hated authority, hated all my bosses, thought they were full of shit. Look, it's like they say, if you're not a rebel by the age of 20, you got no heart, but if you haven't turned establishment by 30, you've got no brains. Because there are no story-book romances, no fairy-tale endings. So before you run out and change the world, ask yourself, "What do you really want?"
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post #12 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-17-2012, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
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The problem is, these are private co's. We can read articles fabricated by the media to support both theories, I'm sure. Bottom line for me is I trust market to weed out the bad guys. I'm pretty sure you don't. So we could debate it all day.
Here is a pretty unbiased account of Romney and Bain, read it whichever way you like: http://theweek.com/article/index/223...-instant-guide

Seems like you could make a case either way. Though I think his time on the board at the Damon Corp. and it's subsequent $120m fine for medicare fraud should be factored in a little. (Bain still pulled a $12m profit out of this fiasco, Damon went down the tubes)

To say nothing of his mistreatment of Batman.

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post #13 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-17-2012, 03:41 PM
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Here is a pretty unbiased account of Romney and Bain, read it whichever way you like: http://theweek.com/article/index/223...-instant-guide

Seems like you could make a case either way. Though I think his time on the board at the Damon Corp. and it's subsequent $120m fine for medicare fraud should be factored in a little. (Bain still pulled a $12m profit out of this fiasco, Damon went down the tubes)

To say nothing of his mistreatment of Batman.
Quite honestly neigther of the 2 clowns running for President are getting my vote. I don't have confidence in either doing the job that needs to be done to make this country great again and stop the fleecing of Gen X. I just think a lot of the political jargain around business dealings and such is hocus pocus to steer the public into a jealous frenzy and sway votes. It's spun in ways that may look a lot differently than it really was. Let's not forget Obama came from "Chicago Politics" and his chances of being involved in shady business deals is just as high or higher than Romney.

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post #14 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-17-2012, 03:42 PM
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To say nothing of his mistreatment of Batman.
I thought he was the action hero on the Simpsons?

Look, I can appreciate this. I was young too, I felt just like you. Hated authority, hated all my bosses, thought they were full of shit. Look, it's like they say, if you're not a rebel by the age of 20, you got no heart, but if you haven't turned establishment by 30, you've got no brains. Because there are no story-book romances, no fairy-tale endings. So before you run out and change the world, ask yourself, "What do you really want?"
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post #15 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-17-2012, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
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I just think a lot of the political jargain around business dealings and such is hocus pocus to steer the public into a jealous frenzy and sway votes. It's spun in ways that may look a lot differently than it really was. Let's not forget Obama came from "Chicago Politics" and his chances of being involved in shady business deals is just as high or higher than Romney.
This is exactly right. Exactly.

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post #16 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-17-2012, 04:13 PM
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Dont let the fact that you're not Obama fans cloud your judgement on the business ethics of Romney. I agree, not a lot of great options out there.

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post #17 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-17-2012, 04:17 PM
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They can nickname hime "chainsaw" Romney for all I care....our country needs a ton of fat trimmed.
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post #18 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-17-2012, 04:21 PM
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They can nickname hime "chainsaw" Romney for all I care....our country needs a ton of fat trimmed.
If he applies his business techniques to the governmental staffing he'll have my vote, even I think the government has gotten stupid bloated.

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post #19 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-17-2012, 04:21 PM
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Dont let the fact that you're not Obama fans cloud your judgement on the business ethics of Romney. I agree, not a lot of great options out there.
Don't let the business dealings and political jargan convince you one way or another on Romney's business ethics. Nobody here or in the media knows what happened behind board room doors. There was a partner and other executives that had decision making authority at the Bain. It would be impossible for anyone outside to make judgement on the ethics of one guy there.

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post #20 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-17-2012, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meulen View Post
Don't let the business dealings and political jargan convince you one way or another on Romney's business ethics. Nobody here or in the media knows what happened behind board room doors. There was a partner and other executives that had decision making authority at the Bain. It would be impossible for anyone outside to make judgement on the ethics of one guy there.
Ok, I'll do that if you do the same for our current President.

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post #21 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-17-2012, 04:25 PM
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They can nickname hime "chainsaw" Romney for all I care....our country needs a ton of fat trimmed.
that'll never happen. Too many baby boomers have control of this country. They want their entitlements and don't care who they fleece to get them. The numbers are too big and lobby groups too strong to do anything about it right now.

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post #22 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-17-2012, 04:27 PM
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Ok, I'll do that if you do the same for our current President.
Who says I haven't? I don't need to anyhow. He's done a terrible job while in office so I don't have to make judgement on anything else!

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post #23 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-17-2012, 04:27 PM
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you dont know what went on behind closed doors!

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post #24 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-17-2012, 04:32 PM
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you dont know what went on behind closed doors!
Nice try.....but completely different.

all I care about is results!

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post #25 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-17-2012, 04:45 PM
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The key difference here is that Obama HAS BEEN President for 3+ years now, he has a track record. His lack of any record at all actually served him well going in, as there was little to attack other than how little there was to attack!

He's demonstrated in the time since that this job is far too big for him...I can't see any way out of that conclusion. For me, personally, I'd much prefer to have a shrewd businessman in there and roll the dice that he keeps it as clean as possible. They're all dirty SOBs, just in differing ways.

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post #26 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-17-2012, 04:57 PM
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post #27 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-17-2012, 07:21 PM
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