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post #1 of 53 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 08:53 AM Thread Starter
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Another shooting (sigh)

This kind of crap gets all the anti-gun weirdos in a tizzy.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/08/...tate-building/

Breaking news said 8 patients are being evaluated.

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post #2 of 53 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 08:56 AM
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Dave Mustaine has informed me this is all part of Obama's conspiracy to push gun control.


/This is sad news
//It's also sad that your, and many other's, first thought is the side affects it will have on gun control issues.

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post #3 of 53 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 08:58 AM
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This is why we need to carry guns
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post #4 of 53 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drozek View Post
This is why we need to carry guns
So more people can start firing off into the crowd?

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post #5 of 53 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 09:04 AM
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Yes...at least give them a chance.
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post #6 of 53 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Vcook View Post
So more people can start firing off into the crowd?
As opposed to police officers eventually showing up and "start firing off into the crowd?"
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post #7 of 53 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 09:13 AM
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haha, we have different view points and I'll leave it at that.

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post #8 of 53 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 09:15 AM
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Lets all take to the streets with baseball bats!

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post #9 of 53 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 09:17 AM
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If everyone in NYC was carrying a gun - this crime would have never happened. Everyone knows that.

Sad for the people in the wrong place at the wrong time when this dude's cork popped.

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post #10 of 53 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 09:19 AM
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Lets all take to the streets with baseball bats!
Pffft, The Warriors did not need Bats....


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post #11 of 53 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 09:31 AM
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Well I'm glad they killed the gunman now we don't have to worry about the media building him up into some mastermind with a manifesto and blah fucking blah.
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post #12 of 53 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 09:40 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vcook View Post
Dave Mustaine has informed me this is all part of Obama's conspiracy to push gun control.


/This is sad news
//It's also sad that your, and many other's, first thought is the side affects it will have on gun control issues.
That's the very point I was getting hung up on myself. I am sorry that people died, but people die all the time...the universe is indifferent, and I guess in some ways so am I. Each year DUI causes considerably more murders than the insane with a gun , but guns will be vilified. This effects me directly; so yes, it is my first thoughts.

The extreme gun control they want to push would be like all sport bikes being banned because some loud, obvious tools caused some major accidents while showboating down the highway. Siting reasons like sport bikes are unnecessary and way overkill for commuting. That the plastics make it go faster so only bikes without plastics can be used for commuting and joy riding. That police are scared of the average person having high speed motorbikes because innocent people can be hurt if the sport bikers try to flee - that the average person isn't trained enough to have such a powerful machine and we should all be on 500cc cruisers. So we need to have a national ban on sport bikes, only old, slow cruisers on the roads for the next 10 years till the ban sunsets and we reevaluate the situation. We're not taking away your rights, we're just protecting the children and keeping you safe from yourself and those crooks that flee the police. Enjoy your 250cc whatever...as long as it doesn't have plastics, clipons, or rearsets.

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Last edited by Lonely Raven; 08-24-2012 at 09:44 AM.
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post #13 of 53 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonely Raven View Post
That's the very point I was getting hung up on myself. I am sorry that people died, but people die all the time...the universe is indifferent, and I guess in some ways so am I. Each year DUI causes considerably more murders than the insane with a gun , but guns will be vilified. This effects me directly; so yes, it is my first thoughts.

The extreme gun control they want to push would be like all sport bikes being banned because some loud, obvious tools caused some major accidents while showboating down the highway. Siting reasons like sport bikes are unnecessary and way overkill for commuting. That the plastics make it go faster so only bikes without plastics can be used for commuting and joy riding. That police are scared of the average person having high speed motorbikes because innocent people can be hurt if the sport bikers try to flee - that the average person isn't trained enough to have such a powerful machine and we should all be on 500cc cruisers. So we need to have a national ban on sport bikes, only old, slow cruisers on the roads for the next 10 years till the ban sunsets and we reevaluate the situation. We're not taking away your rights, we're just protecting the children and keeping you safe from yourself and those crooks that flee the police. Enjoy your 250cc whatever...as long as it doesn't have plastics, clipons, or rearsets.
Decaf has come a long way regarding true coffee taste, give it a shot....

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post #14 of 53 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 10:31 AM
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dude, the guy was killing not humans, read the details of the story.

Quote:
left and I saw a man lying vertically with blood coming out of his head.”
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post #15 of 53 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 10:40 AM
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Just watched the Press Conf - He was fired as a designer from some import company a year ago - He was in his mid 50s - He returned to off the man who fired him who was in his early 40s - After he popped his old boss he as walking away from the scene - (2) construction workers who saw the whole thing went and flagged down NYC PD - The Fuzz tried to apprehend the shooter who opened fire on the Cops - The cops killed him and "May or May not" have wounded a few civis in the process

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post #16 of 53 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 10:47 AM
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In other news, only 19 people were shot last night in Chicago.
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post #17 of 53 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 10:48 AM
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post #18 of 53 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 10:51 AM
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This is fuel for the anti-gun people but we really need to look at the root cause of why people are feeling the need to shoot a bunch of folks and make a name for themselves when they flip.
It is not the guns, back in the 50's gun laws were way more laid back. No waiting periods and much more affordable. Yet this sort of stuff did not happen. WTF happen between now and then to cause this different outcome of people losing their shit? Violence on TV, video games, lack of family structure, unemployment due to offshoring, Corp America treating people like liabilities, reality TV making being famous the #1 goal in life ????
What ever happen to a good old fist fight if someone had a disagreement?

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post #19 of 53 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bek View Post
As opposed to police officers eventually showing up and "start firing off into the crowd?"
To my point...

Quote:
A gunman fatally shot a former coworker in the head outside the Empire State Building Friday morning before he was killed by police officers, New York Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said.

The suspect, 53-year-old Jeffrey Johnson, was a "disgruntled former employee" of a company located inside the Empire State Building, Kelly said. As he tried to flee the scene, a construction worker alerted two police officers, who pursued him down 33rd Street, Kelly said.

Johnson pulled a .45 caliber gun on the approaching police officers but it not clear if he actually shot any rounds as police opened fire on him, Kelly said.

Nine people were wounded or grazed in the crossfire, Kelly said.

"Some may have been accidentally shot by police officers," Kelly said.
The presumption that police officers are always better trained in the use of firearms, than civilians is a terrible misconception.

Training budgets have sufferred greatly over the past decade. Most police department annual qualification exams are extremely simple. Many police officers do not spend additional time on the range with their duty sidearm, much less do any more than the bare minimum. Yet many blindly trust police officers and their skill and training is superior.



Source: http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/08/24...ing/?hpt=hp_t1
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post #20 of 53 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 11:05 AM
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some places I can find source, (too lazy to look)
it was a yearly minimum of 50 rounds to train with.

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post #21 of 53 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 11:07 AM Thread Starter
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I don't want this to sound like we're vilifying the cops now. They stepped up and did what they needed to. It sucks that it turned out the way it did.

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post #22 of 53 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonely Raven View Post
I don't want this to sound like we're vilifying the cops now. They stepped up and did what they needed to. It sucks that it turned out the way it did.
If they didnt it could have been worse. Stick with the devil you know and control vs the devil you dont know.

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post #23 of 53 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 11:19 AM
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Bek makes a good point - all carry licenses should require 100 hours of SWAT training and re-certification each year (at the citizen's expense).

That way everyone on the scene that has a gun would be trained as well (if not better) than the first responders. Side benefit that the police departments get a flush of recurring training revenue - which in turn can supplement the tax burden on everyone else.

Everybody wins!

Good job everyone. Another problem solved through critical thinking and rational discussion!


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post #24 of 53 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Underdog View Post
Bek makes a good point - all carry licenses should require 100 hours of SWAT training and re-certification each year (at the citizen's expense).

That way everyone on the scene that has a gun would be trained as well (if not better) than the first responders. Side benefit that the police departments get a flush of recurring training revenue - which in turn can supplement the tax burden on everyone else.

Everybody wins!

Good job everyone. Another problem solved through critical thinking and rational discussion!


Take the money from the wik program you nancy, it's not that hard to find the funding from a corrupt sexist foundation.
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post #25 of 53 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
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Bek makes a good point - all carry licenses should require 100 hours of SWAT training and re-certification each year (at the citizen's expense).
Coincidentally, while I'm a strong advocate for civilian conceal carry rights, I'm also a very strong advocate of training requirements to exercise such rights. I'm a firm believer that civilians should be required to take extensive training classes, with refresher courses at regular intervals.

And to the cynic's mind, it's an opportunity for big brother to cash in.
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post #26 of 53 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 11:36 AM
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guns are awesome. It makes me feel badass when I fire one at the range.

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post #27 of 53 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 11:36 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Coincidentally, while I'm a strong advocate for civilian conceal carry rights, I'm also a very strong advocate of training requirements to exercise such rights. I'm a firm believer that civilians should be required to take extensive training classes, with refresher courses at regular intervals.

And to the cynic's mind, it's an opportunity for big brother to cash in.

I agree with requiring training and (re)certification. But I'd be concerned about the powers that be using that as a choke point. Make the classes $1000 and the (re)certification cost $200 a year, and there is only one location per state and it's booked for the next 6 months solid.

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post #28 of 53 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 12:39 PM
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I agree with training, but why make it near impossible for average Joe to obtain a CCW permit? My permit cost $117 for 7 years, $50 for the class, $5 for fingerprints. Then I needed additional paperwork from Illinois costing $9 and it took almost 60 days before I had my permit in hand. Sounds easy, but others that have CCW know how much is involved getting it. And the problem with training, is you will see what they have here. A $40 "CCW class" that you fill out the paperwork and handed paperwork to read and given a certificate of completion.

Bottom line, bad guns, people will kill each other with knives. Ban knives, people will use clubs. Ban clubs, people will use their fists. Humans have been killing each other long before guns were invented.
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post #29 of 53 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 12:52 PM
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I'm ok with a random crazed employee attempting to attack 8 people with his fists on the streets of new york.

Chris

Last edited by Vcook; 08-24-2012 at 01:05 PM.
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post #30 of 53 (permalink) Old 08-24-2012, 12:53 PM
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Ban Miatas and people will just buy MR2s....

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