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post #1 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-14-2012, 07:21 PM Thread Starter
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airplane flutter

need help with getting OTA TV
as you all know I'm cheap as fuck and don't want to pay for cable. I had success with OTA tv before. But now that I moved and the airplanes flies over my house every damn 10 minutes I'm getting what is called "airplane flutter".

Anybody have same issue as me? How did you work around it and what antenna do you recommend. Thanks in advance.
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post #2 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-14-2012, 07:58 PM
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Wrap some foil around the rabbit ears.
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post #3 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-14-2012, 08:03 PM Thread Starter
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Wrap some foil around the rabbit ears.
oh I forgot to tell you, I have an outdoor type antenna, mounted on the roof.
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post #4 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-14-2012, 08:08 PM

 
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digital signal amplifier I got from Walmart for $15 works like a champ....

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post #5 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-14-2012, 08:13 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by butchf View Post
digital signal amplifier I got from Walmart for $15 works like a champ....
it's not that I dont' get good signal, I get EXCELLENT signals. (I also have an inline amplifier installed) It's just everytime an airplane flies by, I get disconnected for a second or two. I guess the airplane is reflecting the signal or something. I'm thinking I need a new antenna to reduce this "airplace flutter". Any suggestion?
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post #6 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-14-2012, 08:20 PM

 
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there is a digital filter that could stop the problem. Otherwise, you just may have an overdriven signal.
Have you tried it without the amplifier?
You need to identify what channels have the problem. I doubt if it is all of them. CBS channel 2 in Chicago is the only one broadcasting VHF.
I would expect that to be a problem. All other digital broadcasts in our area are UHF that resists interference better.
I use channel 2 to predict severe weather because the signal will screwup before any other.

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Last edited by butchf; 10-14-2012 at 08:35 PM.
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post #7 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-14-2012, 08:40 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by butchf View Post
there is a digital filter that could stop the problem. Otherwise, you just may have an overdriven signal.
Have you tried it without the amplifier?
You need to identify what channels have the problem. I doubt if it is all of them. CBS channel 2 in Chicago is the only one broadcasting VHF.
I would expect that to be a problem. All other digital broadcasts in our area are UHF that resists interference better.
I use channel 2 to predict severe weather because the signal will screwup before any other.
I tried it with and without the amplifier and definitely the amplifier is 100% better. Still no good when airplane fly by. What is this digital filter you're talking about?
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post #8 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-14-2012, 08:54 PM
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I usually call O'hare and make threatening calls to divert flights from my area during important shows that I need to catch.

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post #9 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-14-2012, 09:42 PM

 
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I tried it with and without the amplifier and definitely the amplifier is 100% better. Still no good when airplane fly by. What is this digital filter you're talking about?
More than likely it is the aircraft communicating with the tower...UHF signal....must be in pattern as they fly over....NO FILTER can stop that.

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sold the track bike
too slow to ride

"Repairs end December 31. 2011."

OK, it was a tough day.....back open again!!!
Bring me your broken down machines.

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post #10 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-15-2012, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by butchf View Post
More than likely it is the aircraft communicating with the tower...UHF signal....must be in pattern as they fly over....NO FILTER can stop that.
Actually aircraft talking with ORD tower use VHF: 127.925

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post #11 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-15-2012, 10:51 AM Thread Starter
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Actually aircraft talking with ORD tower use VHF: 127.925
you seem knowledgable, any suggestions?
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post #12 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-15-2012, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chills View Post
Actually aircraft talking with ORD tower use VHF: 127.925
Depends on which approach the airplanes are taking.

You can view the frequencies and listen to all the ATCs here:
http://www.liveatc.net/search/?icao=ord

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post #13 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-15-2012, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Gone In 3 View Post
Depends on which approach the airplanes are taking.

You can view the frequencies and listen to all the ATCs here:
http://www.liveatc.net/search/?icao=ord
Sorry dude, but that's incorrect. Tower has only one frequency, Approach has multiple frequencies. They are also different facilities.

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UNICOM: 122.95
WX ASOS: PHONE 773-462-0118
O HARE GROUND: 121.675 121.75 121.9
O HARE TOWER: 127.925
CHICAGO APPROACH: 119.0(360-179) 133.625(180-359) 284.0(180-359) 349.0(SOUTH) 377.15 393.1(360-179) 121.15 124.35 125.7(180-359)
CHICAGO DEPARTURE: 125.0(340-159) 125.4(220-339) 126.625(160-219) 307.2(220-339) 327.075(160-219) 337.4(340-159) 349.0(SOUTH)
CLEARANCE DELIVERY: 119.25

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post #14 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-15-2012, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tcmalker View Post
you seem knowledgable, any suggestions?

Sorry, TC, I'm just a former air traffic controller; I don't know much about how to fix the flutter.

I would suggest moving your antenna so it is more shielded, but I'm not sure how much that would help or if you have a spot that wouldn't be bombarded by radio transmissions.

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post #15 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-15-2012, 11:52 AM Thread Starter
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Sorry dude, but that's incorrect. Tower has only one frequency, Approach has multiple frequencies. They are also different facilities.

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post #16 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-15-2012, 12:16 PM

 
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Quote:
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Actually aircraft talking with ORD tower use VHF: 127.925
I stand corrected. Thanks Chris.

Question I would ask is: how the heck does a VHF signal interfere with UHF?
Is it a proximity issue? Signal strength?

CCS race official
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too slow to ride

"Repairs end December 31. 2011."

OK, it was a tough day.....back open again!!!
Bring me your broken down machines.

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Arch, this Bud is for you..
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post #17 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-15-2012, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by butchf View Post
I stand corrected. Thanks Chris.

Question I would ask is: how the heck does a VHF signal interfere with UHF?
Is it a proximity issue? Signal strength?
I was wondering the same thing. Especially since aviation transmissions are usually pretty tight and don't bleed over to other frequencies.

TC, how close do you live to approach/departure routes, and how close to the airport?

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post #18 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-15-2012, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chills View Post
I was wondering the same thing. Especially since aviation transmissions are usually pretty tight and don't bleed over to other frequencies.

TC, how close do you live to approach/departure routes, and how close to the airport?

I'm thinking jet wash.
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post #19 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-15-2012, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by butchf View Post
Question I would ask is: how the heck does a VHF signal interfere with UHF?
Is it a proximity issue? Signal strength?
Airplane flutter is caused by the TV signal reflecting off the plane and being received after the original signal, confusing the digital TV tuner.

A directional antenna will help with the problem because it picks up the signal from one direction, as opposed to the omnidirectional antenna in the picture, which picks up signals from all directions.

This is what I was told by a broadcast engineer at the gym, YMMV.
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post #20 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-15-2012, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BandM View Post
Airplane flutter is caused by the TV signal reflecting off the plane and being received after the original signal, confusing the digital TV tuner.

A directional antenna will help with the problem because it picks up the signal from one direction, as opposed to the omnidirectional antenna in the picture, which picks up signals from all directions.

This is what I was told by a broadcast engineer at the gym, YMMV.
No kidding? That's pretty cool info, I wouldn't have guessed it.

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post #21 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-15-2012, 01:25 PM
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use this to determine which is best antenna type:
http://www.antennaweb.org/

it takes your address into consideration.
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post #22 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-15-2012, 01:32 PM
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No kidding? That's pretty cool info, I wouldn't have guessed it.
That he goes to they gym? Rude....

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post #23 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-15-2012, 01:35 PM
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That he goes to they gym? Rude....


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post #24 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-15-2012, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BandM View Post
Airplane flutter is caused by the TV signal reflecting off the plane and being received after the original signal, confusing the digital TV tuner.

A directional antenna will help with the problem because it picks up the signal from one direction, as opposed to the omnidirectional antenna in the picture, which picks up signals from all directions.

This is what I was told by a broadcast engineer at the gym, YMMV.
Because of this, they recommend shielding the *top* of the antenna so you're getting the signal laterally; not from above. This is easier if your antenna is attic mounted obviously.

Or a directional, as mentioned. But those could be too directional and need to be dialed in depending on where the signal is coming from.

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post #25 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-15-2012, 04:24 PM Thread Starter
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I was wondering the same thing. Especially since aviation transmissions are usually pretty tight and don't bleed over to other frequencies.

TC, how close do you live to approach/departure routes, and how close to the airport?
I live about a mile from the airport and the airplanes flies directly over my house.
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post #26 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-15-2012, 04:48 PM
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Sounds like BandM's theory is the most plausible. Planes on 1-mile final are pretty low, around 600ft depending on the approach; and I would guess that when big fellas like 777s, A340s, and 747s pass over your reception is the worst (being they have the largest surface area for which to reflect the TV signals).

Is it possible for you to get a directional antenna and then shield the top?

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post #27 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-15-2012, 04:51 PM Thread Starter
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Sounds like BandM's theory is the most plausible. Planes on 1-mile final are pretty low, around 600ft depending on the approach; and I would guess that when big fellas like 777s, A340s, and 747s pass over your reception is the worst (being they have the largest surface area for which to reflect the TV signals).

Is it possible for you to get a directional antenna and then shield the top?
I dont know. Obviously I can buy a directional antenna and mount in either on the roof or in the attic. On the roof is probably best, but how do I shield it?
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post #28 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-15-2012, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
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I live about a mile from the airport and the airplanes flies directly over my house.
Get Comcast Internet bundled with basic local channels and forget the headaches.

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post #29 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-19-2012, 02:10 PM
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I dont know. Obviously I can buy a directional antenna and mount in either on the roof or in the attic. On the roof is probably best, but how do I shield it?
Don't bother. A directional antenna should be "shielded" enough by being directional.

For where you are, you do not need an amplifier if the antenna is mounted correctly. In fact, the amplifier could be making the problem worse by boosting the reflected signal to where the TV just can't reject it. Ditch the amplifier and get a real TV antenna, and then see how it works. (For reference, I've got the old, slightly broken antenna on my roof hooked up and working, no amplifier, and 5 miles out from downtown, I get solid reception on pretty much everything.)

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post #30 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-19-2012, 04:09 PM
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You can get Comcast channels 2 thru 28 without a cable box straight out of the wall. Channel 29 and upwards is all digital so you'd need a special digital tuner after that. You wouldn't get channels like 7.1, 7.2, etc., but you'd get the basics 2, 5, 7, 9, 11, 20, 26 (comcast channel 6), 32 (comcast channel 3), 50 (comcast channel 8), 56 (comcast channel 21), etc.

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