So Harley Davidson just posted this... - Chicagoland Sportbikes
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-18-2014, 05:30 PM Thread Starter
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So Harley Davidson just posted this...

You tube ========> /watch?v=H7u9DTfE14M
HD is going electric? okay..


edit.. someone embed or fix the link to this video because i cant post url's until i reach 15 posts.. sigh...
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-18-2014, 10:06 PM
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Wait wait..l don't tell me... It's gonna be called the electric glide?

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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-18-2014, 10:48 PM

 
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-19-2014, 12:36 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for fixing my link...

Maybe they bought that electric bike company zero??? Didn't harley buy buell and f that up... I don't know. . Electric bikes are not there yet.. and they look whack..
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-19-2014, 07:27 AM Thread Starter
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youtube =====> watch?v=li5HbMk6yO8

i have to say, it dose not look that bad.. i kind of like it..
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-19-2014, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by ramenboy... View Post
Wait wait..l don't tell me... It's gonna be called the electric glide?
Well Played Old Bean..........Well Played

"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming WOW, what a RIDE !!"
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-19-2014, 10:32 AM
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There is a reason I bought my Harley and it wasn't so I couldn't hear of feel the Vtwin power. This thing will flop quicker than HD tony's wifes tits.
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-19-2014, 11:54 AM
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Well Played Old Bean..........Well Played
haha thank you sir, i've learned from the best

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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-19-2014, 01:01 PM Thread Starter
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There is a reason I bought my Harley and it wasn't so I couldn't hear of feel the Vtwin power. This thing will flop quicker than HD tony's wifes tits.
Yeah, I agree with you. . Every time I hate on a electric bike all I hear from people is "what about the torque? the torque! " bmw m5 now pumps artificial engine sounds through the interior speakers. So maybe this Harley will come with some sweet ear buds ...
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-19-2014, 02:34 PM
You got the talkin' done
 
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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-19-2014, 06:10 PM
 
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For the typical HD rider, it's easy to ride after they're inebriated (or just because they lack any skill to operate hand and feet controls at the same time, drunk or not), it'll work great for the short trips between bars giving an excuse to stop and charge for a few hours, and they won't wake up the wife as they roll into the garage after missing their curfew.

I heard from the HD dealer that delivered my Brammo that HD had purchased one or two to do testing, so this announcement is no surprise to me. I am sure HD has nothing to do with Zero. And for the record, Polaris has a sizable stake in Brammo, so I'm sure there's no connection between HD and Brammo, either.

In all seriousness, the electric bikes carry a premium and HD would be mistaken to let that slip through. I'll be keeping my eyes open, but I don't expect the HD to hold a candle to Brammo or Zero in terms of performance. I'd bet HD is going after the police bike market more than anything else - an area where electric is far, far superior than the ICE bikes they'll replace.

When I took delivery of my Brammo last year, I predicted all but the cheapest motorcycles will be electric in 10 years. The countdown continues.

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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-20-2014, 09:22 AM
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For the typical HD rider, it's easy to ride after they're inebriated (or just because they lack any skill to operate hand and feet controls at the same time, drunk or not), it'll work great for the short trips between bars giving an excuse to stop and charge for a few hours, and they won't wake up the wife as they roll into the garage after missing their curfew.
Sold

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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-20-2014, 11:15 AM
Go ahead, I'll catch up
 
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When I took delivery of my Brammo last year, I predicted all but the cheapest motorcycles will be electric in 10 years. The countdown continues.
What's the latest on your Brammo? I agree that you will see more and more electric bikes on the road. If I were looking for a street bike, I would definitely look into one.

Take care and ride safe,
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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-20-2014, 10:26 PM
 
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Originally Posted by brilama View Post
What's the latest on your Brammo?
Not a whole lot to report. I still ride it 5 or 6 days a week for commuting and around-town errands. My car is currently buried behind bicycles and it's just easier to take the Brammo than dig the car out. I haven't even taken the SV out of storage this year, either. I just clicked over 9,000 miles. With the windshield I can get about 70 miles on a charge. There's been two recalls and one software update. I still need to do the second recall, which is to replace the rear axle nut (I have the new nut...just need an excuse to do it). My front brakes are pulsing a bit, and I'm not sure if it's because a rotor is bent (me screwing up putting it on the fork-lift stand, or the shop that put on the last tire), or because I use a KTM rubber-band as a parking brake at work and it's built up corrosion on the disc. One of these days I'll clean them up to see which it is.

I would like to get the Givi saddlebags which have just been released, but will probably wait until I'm in a house with a three car garage (hopefully soon) so I don't have to pull the bike out from between cars with bags. Once my chain goes I plan on putting on a bigger rear sprocket. 42 teeth is supposed to be good for around 950 ft/lbs at the rear wheel...which is enough to lift the front end of the 470 lb bike. Top speed drops to 100, but with stock gearing cruising at 80 mph is only ~5200 RPM in 5th (right in the motor's sweet spot for efficiency), so going with a smaller gear will make 6th useable, too.

And one speeding ticket so far (on the bright side, he wrote me for about 20mph less than I was actually going...silent bikes FTW!)

I am looking forward to the high-voltage bikes hitting consumer's hands later this year. The extra power will get rid of the need for a transmission, and give better-than-liter bike acceleration well into the low 100 mph's (I can only out accelerate anything through first gear, about 50mph...then it falls on its face). Price for those will be above $30k. But by the time my Brammo is worn out, I know what I'll be replacing it with. Hopefully by then DC charging is more ubiquitous, and energy and power density in the batteries is up making longer rides easier to plan.



One more on-topic joke....I wonder if anyone realizes that the new fastest Harley will be their electric scooter?

Sean
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It is far better to be thought of as a smartass than an dumbass. And as American Humorist Robert Benchley (1889-1945) noted, "no matter how well-intended, any reply to a dumbass question will inevitably appear smartassed". - Bob Hall (creator of the Miata)
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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-21-2014, 03:55 PM
 
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Also, Mission Motors (not to be confused with Mission Motorcycles) supplied the drive train. Which means it is likely high voltage...

http://www.wired.com/2014/06/harley-davidson-livewire/

Sean
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It is far better to be thought of as a smartass than an dumbass. And as American Humorist Robert Benchley (1889-1945) noted, "no matter how well-intended, any reply to a dumbass question will inevitably appear smartassed". - Bob Hall (creator of the Miata)
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post #16 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-21-2014, 04:14 PM
 
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I finally got around to reading all the posts on the Brammo forum on this. Here are a few interesting observations from people who know an understand electric vehicles.

-Harley is making it small, probably to appeal to women rides.
-It probably is high voltage, but in order to offset the greater expense, HD is putting in a relatively small battery (the guess is ~8kwh based on range estimates - my Brammo is 9.3kwh, Zero's are up to 14kwh).
-The motor is designed for power rather than torque, and is installed longitudinally. That way they can make the motor longer than if it were transverse, which is why the HP number is higher than the torque number.
-The fact the power number is so high is going to create heat problems with the relatively small battery. There are concerns that the bike may not be able to cruise at higher speeds due to heat in the battery. (My Brammo has no trouble cruising at 80, but track days do cause the bike to turn off regenerative braking and longer sessions can result in power reduction, Zeros have heat problems with their air-cooled motor in hot climates - but not their battery)
-But the HD will be amazing from stoplight to stoplight.

The bike is going on tour to gauge acceptance. I'll be looking for test ride.

Sean
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It is far better to be thought of as a smartass than an dumbass. And as American Humorist Robert Benchley (1889-1945) noted, "no matter how well-intended, any reply to a dumbass question will inevitably appear smartassed". - Bob Hall (creator of the Miata)
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post #17 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-30-2014, 06:35 PM
 
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Here's my review of the Livewire:

I road my Empulse to the demo event at the HD museum. It was the longest one-day ride I've done yet. I consumed about 20 kwh of L2 charging, and about 3 kwh of L1 charging at the HD museum. The only issue was my ChargePoint RFID card must be dead because none of the stations were accepting it. Total trip distance was 204 miles per my Garmin. My last leg was 53 miles and I arrived home with 3% remaining. Perfect

On to the LiveWire. It was great to go the Milwaukee event because the Engineers that actually worked on the bike were there. Most of them had mentioned that they had ridden an Empulse and were interested in my impressions of their version. They are not going on tour, so the rest of the stops are going to be dealing with partially-trained Marketing monkeys. (In full disclosure: I was a Marketing major.) The focus of the project was to show consumers how good an electric motorcycle could be if battery technology could support the performance, and Harley's opinion is right now it can't. But I suspect they believe battery tech will soon be their definition of ready. Because of this attitude, the bike was designed around being a good demo bike without acknowledging the battery's limitations. This means no on-board charger (to charge you need something outboard to convert AC to DC...everyone else has a built in charger which is somewhat complicated to package), and tiny battery. I did pop the plug cover on the display bike to see what it was, and it looks like a MIL-SPEC connection.

It looks like they went with higher end suspension components (relatively speaking, it is a Harley). They covered everything else, so no seeing the high power electronics. I did try to ask some specific questions and got stonewalled. I asked what kind of cells, and the engineers had no info to give. I asked about Mission Motors, and again, no comment. I did ask specifically about battery overheating at highway speeds and everyone was adamant that it wasn't a problem.

On to the test ride. The reach is a lot longer than the Empulse, but leg position felt about the same. The bike felt heavier despite being 10 pounds lighter, and the steering felt much lighter (too much, IMO). The touchscreen was interesting, but hard to use while moving, and the optional information wasn't particularly useful. I wish I would have noted the odometer before I left, but it's not on the home screen and I didn't discover the odometer until after I started messing with the screen. I got on the bike with about 90% SOC. The two modes offered ~26 and ~53 miles for power and range modes, respectively. (I didn't understand this since the only difference between modes is usually peak power and throttle mapping...which really don't impact range that much unless the rider spends a lot of time at WOT. I actually get better range in Power mode on my Brammo thanks to better throttle mapping.) I selected power mode for my test ride. There is no option to switch modes once selected without turning the bike off (I can switch modes on the Brammo only when not moving). GoogleMaps' estimate has the ride at 4.3 miles, and I used about 8% of SOC. One of the riders used 12%. I estimate my Empulse would have used 4% or less with the type of riding we were doing.

Riding a direct drive was nice. I didn't miss the transmission lash of my Empulse as much as I thought I would, surprisingly (this has been a complaint of a lot of Empulse owners, including me, but I'm trying to say I didn't notice the lash not being there). The throttle tuning was new and I never felt really comfortable with it. Power would come on very slow (relative to my Brammo), but once moving it was constant and predictable. I suspect they would go more aggressive with the production version when they don't have to worry as much about people crashing their demos. (Someone did crash in the round-a-bout in my test ride group.) They said no wheelies in the pre-ride briefing, and I asked if it would do one, and they confirmed. I didn't want to be the one to test that aspect...I would bet the Empulse is faster through 1st gear, but the LiveWire would take the lead shortly after. I wish we could have gotten the bikes to highway speed to see the difference there where the high power equipment would make the biggest difference, but no such luck. They have regen mapped to bring the bike to a stop, although it is very predictable. My Brammo doesn't regen when going less than 5mph, meaning I have to brake to come to a stop.

My favorite part of the bike? The sounds. Somehow the bike has two different notes. While cruising, it sounds much like the Empulse. But accelerating or decelerating produces a hydraulic whir. Apparently that is an unintended consequence of the angle gear. It was pretty cool.

So in conclusion, this engineering exercise has similar performance to an Empulse, but can't charge and can't go more than 25 miles. I think it does a great job in putting electric motorcycles in the public's eye, and showing the type of performance that can be expected if someone buys a Brammo or Zero right now. In my (biased) opinion, the Empulse is much more refined, but Harley put forth a really good effort. When Harley is ready to move electrons, I think they will give Brammo and Zero a run for their money.

Sean
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05 Mazdaspeed Miata
13 JSW TDI

It is far better to be thought of as a smartass than an dumbass. And as American Humorist Robert Benchley (1889-1945) noted, "no matter how well-intended, any reply to a dumbass question will inevitably appear smartassed". - Bob Hall (creator of the Miata)
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