DOES anyone want to discuss anything from the accident to the way we ride ourselves? - Chicagoland Sportbikes
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post #1 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-13-2002, 12:06 PM Thread Starter
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DOES anyone want to decuss anything from the accident to the way we ride ourselfs?

1ST RULE...WE ARE ADULTS...NO FLAMING EACH OTHER OR BASHING GOING ON.

just thought ill put this thread up and let anyone get something off there chest or discuss how we as riders can do something differant, to learning from this accident to improve ourselfs as riders.

PLEASE dont start a fight in here.



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post #2 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-13-2002, 12:21 PM
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I just want to say, that for me, and others here I'm sure, it's been a break through year for my riding skills. I have been working on developing them on the street. I think I am wrong. Developing skills takes a bit of pushing it to the edge and doing that on the street with pot holes, oil, gravel, or whatever else that cannot be seen is not safe. I think at a point we are going to have to realize that our skills are best developed on the track. I haven't done a track day yet, and I'm hoping I will be able to next year, but until then I will not be pushing my limits on the street. Please don't assume that this is what I think caused the accident. I don't know that nor will I assume. For me seeing what we saw last teusday just got me thinking about my responsibilities to my wife, and my family, and this is what I am choosing to do in order to keep doing what I love.

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post #3 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-13-2002, 12:51 PM
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This accident will serve as a constant reminder to wear my gear, especially the back protector. I've only got the 4 link Tecknic, but that covers most of my back since I'm only 5 ft. 8 or so. When I get more into track days I'll upgrade to another one.

My biggest threat while riding (like most people's) is careless car drivers trying to get to work 30 seconds faster. Keeping a constant eye on EVERYTHING is pretty difficult.

I'm so early into the sportbike riding that I can still gain a lot by street riding around the speed limits. I can practice picking lines, proper throttle control and looking through corners everywhere.

Also, I think I'll skip Sheridan and surrounding roads. More than one have had accidents or close calls on several parts of that road. While it's a nice scenic ride, too many people drive that 'scenic' route and fail to pay attention to the road. The road also isn't in the greatest shape and gets confusing sometimes.

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post #4 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-13-2002, 12:53 PM
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Well, here is what I have seen in the past year. When I first started riding with this group, I was impressed with the push for safety. Before every ride there was a speech about safety, no wheelies, stopies, etc. We would go out and ride for the joy of riding. We even did a group purchase for ChatterBoxes to make are group rides safer. You never heard talk of track days that much, Nesba, what's that. This year the group dynamics changed. Track this and track that, Nesba this and Nesba that. I think that track life style has spilled over into our regular rides.

The crash club of 2001 and 2002 should have never been as big as they are. The phrase that I use to hear last year was "Ride Your Own Ride". I am no angle, but I have to ride my own ride becase I have a wife and two kids that need a father. I love riding and I love my family and I can't let love of riding cost me my family.

I really like hanging out with CLSB, and I have made some great friends here. I try to make as many of the groups rides as possible and I pray for everyone that's on a group ride. I have had a hard in my prayer time last night. I thought about Andy, I prayed to God to let me know when it is time for to give up my bike. I ride because it is something I have always wanted to do and I ride because it is a way to share Jesus Christ with others. I will continue to ride until God say's stop, and I will contiue to pray for CLSB saftey. I not trying to preach to any one I am just sharing how I feel.

I love you guys and I don't like seeing my friends hurt. Please be safe and be careful while you ride and GOD BLESS YOU ALL.

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post #5 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-13-2002, 01:21 PM
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I think that if people ride within their own limits, everyone should be fine. I dont let how others are riding in the group persuade me to do things I dont believe I'm capable of doing. Granted, Ive only been on one group ride(Which was a blast, Thanks to Ken for leading) but It was nice knowing that people will wait for you if you are behind. I have no problems staying in the back and riding my ride. This way I can watch how others ride and see how things are done. The best part of the ride I went on is, before we left, Ken stated that he waits for everyone. And I'll be damned that at every stop sign, he waited to make sure all were accounted for before taking off.

I hear of too many stories of people riding beyond their limits, and pushing their bikes in order to catch up with the group. And as a result an accident occurs.

So if I'm ever on any group rides, dont mind me and dont let me slow you down.

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post #6 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-13-2002, 01:47 PM Thread Starter
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Well, ill add my 2 cents about MYSELF.

For 1 like always it isn't a good feeling seeing a family member or friend hurt...and since this hits home cause it was on a bike...it makes me think a touch more about myself and how I ride.

But my the truth be told...even though?...i might be more skillful in my riding then most...it has no baring...because HOPEFULLY WE ALL RIDE TO OUR OWN ABILITIES...which means...your comfortable and at this time...we are at our peak performance in riding and riding SAFE. No matter what the speed limit is or the posted speed in a turn.

what's got me slowing down a touch is...those fucken guardrails, and what ever else i can do some MAJOR damage if i did crash into it. it took me a few days to even get back on my bike after the crash, and i felt sick for a while...i still kinda do, BUT, i like everyone else has to move on and not dwell on the WHAT IF it was me situation of thinking...if we do..its going to shut us down..and as humans...we are meant to STRIVE and further ourselves...so i got back on the bike..and everything felt good...first couple days...Andy was in my mind...but i tried to keep him out when i am riding...WE ALL NEED A CLEAR MIND when riding..it takes total focus. i learned i need to gear up more often..no matter HOW HOTT it is. and if i lead another group ride...(which i will no doubt) i will try to even more make my safety speech..since..AT 1 TIME all i was hearing was i was being to pushy and people were talking that they didn't like my shit and was thinking of not even coming cause of ALL THE RULES....well you know what...if ya don't like all my shit of SAFETY, DON'T come then to any of my rides . as far as i am concerned with my emotional ass of a guy...I CARE for everyone...and i know a lot of us CARE for each other..IT SHOWS on this site..and most of all of us are friends in 1 way or another...so there for i think we can care enough for our rides in trying to keep with the program...of a slow ass ride, or mild, or demon...etc...to keep ourselves contained for those group actions...what ever type it is (example wheeling in a slow mild group ride)...HELL I EVEN LOOK LIKE A JACK ASS i am sure...ive been getting wheelie happy lately...and most of the rides ive been doing them on are with guys that ride the same level..so it doesn't bother them and i always do it away from them and safely unless its one of my close hommies...where he trys to spank my ass when i pass by you guys know how ya are..


but all and all...there is a lesson to be learned here..and hopefully for each of ourselfs...we can find it and help ourselfs to learn and strive for betterness.

is the street our own private race track? NOPE....do we horse around on the streets YEP....is it gonna change?...PROBABLY NOT...are we gonna think about slowing it down a touch in high risk areas?...I HOPE SO...I KNOW I WILL.

P.s. hopefully my post here was as clear as it reads...I am talking about myself..and in no way bashing anyone for anything they are doing what so ever...I just hope...everyone can help them self's become alittle better in what ever area they need it.

I AM NOT YOUR DADDY...so it isn't my job....to preach at no one about how they ride
love ya guys

p.s.s. time for me to spell check...



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post #7 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-13-2002, 02:01 PM Thread Starter
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Michael...and bill...you guys got your opinions and that's fine, and trying to help each other realize something that fine...we can disagree, but lets explain..why we disagree like Michael added about track riding.

And I have noticed throughout the years of riding..and lately with doing track days...something ive been wanting to do for a lot of years.

i first noticed myself in this manner...i use to drag race on the street and it feels great to let that monster out of the bag and rip some ass down the line...WELL i went to the drag strip...and guess what...I GOT ALL THAT EGERNESS to haul ass in drag mode out of my system for a few weeks...so every now and then...going to places like this does wonders.

Same thing applies to people doing track days...normally guys that never been on the track more then likely are hitting the streets HARD...and like we've been saying...HEY go hit that shit in a safer place for yourself and you can even get better at riding to higher limits in a safer more controlled area.

And myself and most others...HEY i know it works for me..and it looks like its working for others...so I think its a good thing.

even to the point..were guys are like even not even bothering to ride on the streets because youve gotten to a certain skill level which totally BLOWS to even ride on the streets any more..the main reason is...we get so skillfull and comfortable doing something so easy for us and calm in doing it with all the pratice we get...it becomes ULTRA slow motion on the street and its more pain in the ass to deal with street life then it is just to wait to go back to the track...me personally i love doing both, i get to ride HARD to my abilities on the track, and i LOVE racking up miles on the street relaxing and having fun with my friends riding all over the place...it really is a great thing for me...cause i love BOTH and i take great enjoyment out of both...IN THERE DIFFERENT SETTINGS FOR WHAT THEY ARE.

sometimes i tell people that see me or us (who ever they are) wow...you guys were pushing it!...well that's there opinion coming from there level of ability...what might seem impossible to 1 person is a daily routine for someone else.

kinda hope i made this more understandable now.

all good comments and all good intentions so far...you guys are doing good..not bastardizing this thread like normal... hope we keep it that way



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post #8 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-13-2002, 02:07 PM
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I think the main thing two things to learn here are:

1) Self-control. You never, EVER, want to ride at 100% on roads. This should keep you, for the most part, out of compromising situations. Pushing yourself to your limits is only going to create panic and pucker factor. And you don't learn anything when you're panicked. You'll only get faster if you concentrate on being smooth, and being aware of what you're doing.

2) Accept the fact that crashing CAN happen, even to YOU. In the event that you ARE in a compromising situation, be smart. Be *willing* to crash. I'm not saying you have to WANT to crash - no one wants to crash. But keep in mind that sometimes, purposely laying it down is the BEST decision. Trying to hold off, and ride something out, might place you in a MUCH worse scenario. If you can accept the fact that "Yes, I may crash..." then when you ARE in a bad situation, you can think straight. Rather than, "Oh my god I'm going to crash," it's "Ok, I'm probably gonna crash... would I rather hit that bush, or a tree?"

I used to ride like an idiot on the street. (well, I still kinda do...) But I used to ride at 100% - as hard, and as fast, as I possibly could. I did anything I could to stay at the front of the group (this is back when I first met DanO.) I was just as fast as he was at MX, so hey, I should be just as fast as him on the street. We had the same bike, so if he can do it, I can do it. Wrong attitude. Now, I was fortunate enough to have kept the bike on two wheels, after all these years. I've had 3 wrecks - 2 were thanks to other people not seeing me, and 1 was due to my own stupidity. I've had MANY close calls, however. I think part of the reason I'm still in one piece, is that when I sensed I was in a compromising situation - I instantly started looking for the softest, safest way to crash. I stayed calm. I didn't let myself get totally out of control.

My rule is this: if you absolutely do NOT want to crash, and will do anything within your power to not crash - then you shouldn't be riding.

Now I don't know what could've prevented Andy's crash... staying loose and relaxed definitely wouldn't have stopped the guard rail from messing him up. Guard rails are bad news (as we all now know.) Without knowing him, or the situation, I would say he was just going too fast. It sucks... but lets learn from it.

I don't like to ride where there are guard rails, other people, cars, etc... that's why you never see me even attempt to join up with some of the group rides that run downtown, through the suburbs, etc. I stick to the backroads, and that's it. I want plenty of runoff room. I don't trust idiots in cars. And I don't like hard objects right next to the road.

Now I wish Andy, his family and friends, the best of luck, and I pray for a speedy recovery. He has some big changes in store for him now. Let's take as much of an advantage of this as we can, and learn all there is to learn.

Jim Ptak
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post #9 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-13-2002, 02:44 PM
 
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I don't think the track corrupted anyone. Most people here do trackdays, as I do. No matter how fast I get on the track, that will not make me go any faster on the streets because I know how dangerous the streets are. I don't do track to be a faster STREET rider, I do track to be a SAFER rider and know my bike and it's limits.

I also have noticed that the people that haven't been to the track, or don't do track days regularly usually seem to be pushing a bit more on the streets. On the other hand I know a hand full of people that do regular track days and still feel the need to push it out there.

As for riding at night and riding through congested areas like the city or suburbs. That is just nuts. What kind of pleasure can you get out of riding when you can't see shit and there are cars everywhere. I guess some people just enjoy that kind of "on the edge" type of ride. That is why I stopped going on the night rides, and most of the weekend rides. I like to ride far away from the city, far away from all the cars and people. I feel safer out there but I always watch the speedo, if I see that I'm riding 30+mph over the speed limit, I slow it down. I don't need speeding tickets.

I will never understand why some ride the way they ride and take so many risks.

Last edited by VIVID1; 08-13-2002 at 02:52 PM.
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post #10 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-13-2002, 02:57 PM Thread Starter
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good reply Anna...let me explain my version of

Quote:
I will never understand why some ride the way they ride and take so many risks.
Its the same reason almost everyone is on a bike...we all have that little bug needing excitement...I think they even referred to it as the RUSH GENE.

Just like you said riding in high traffic areas or in the city or at night, you don't feel comfortable doing it...THAT'S PERFECT you know your area of danger for YOURSELF that you don't want to put yourself into.

you see we each have our own area of GRAY where we don't like or basically not comfortable doing, and if we know what we CANT handle right and try to avoid it...then HEY you got something working in your favor


But in the same sense...you cant say....UGH...i don't see how you guys like eating onions...I cant stand them.
We all have different different taste..and 1 persons view in what taste good doesn't make it Marshall law that no one can eat onions. or make you seem like an idiot for likeing them

hope i got my point made...but its good if we all know the REALLY bad things to avoid when riding that we can protect ourselves even more so.

if not by a volvo and buckle up



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post #11 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-13-2002, 03:20 PM
 
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So if I don't eat onions I won't crash ;-)

I hear ya Ken.

Everyone is to some degree guilty of the "Everyone driving slower than me is a wussy and anyone who passes me is a FQQKin IDIOT!"

Its all about finding your own acceptable level of risk and being aware of the potential consequences of that choice.
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post #12 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-13-2002, 03:26 PM Thread Starter
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Exactly mark...we all perceive something different...which in turn doesn't make what that other person is doing wrong or right or an idiot on my views of correctness.

like the thread was started for is hopefully we can better ourselves in our sport and find those gray area's where we need to exert more cation



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post #13 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-13-2002, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by vtr996
Everyone is to some degree guilty of the "Everyone driving slower than me is a wussy and anyone who passes me is a FQQKin IDIOT!"

Its all about finding your own acceptable level of risk and being aware of the potential consequences of that choice.
Thats probably one of the truest statements I have seen in a while. I know I have done that a few times.

My main thing is you can ride as hard as is safe. But if your gonna do it, do it during the day when you can see and the pavemnet is at optimum tempurature for traction.

At night Especially in hilly and wooded areas the pavement tempurature has been changing drastically and can be forming condensation, not to mention that it is cooling your tire temperature dramatically further reducing your level of traction. Add in reduced visability and wildlife and it can get very dangerous out there.

JUst be careful out there guys, I know no one will ever agree with everyone on thier riding styles for the above mentioned reason. But if we can at least hold back the aggresive stuff for when it's relativly safe to do so (either at the track or during the day out in the country) then I think we would all feel a lot safer out there.

Granted I am not the best role model and I dont claim to be, sure I have been known to bust out some 2nd gear wheelies on the highway and smak Ken in the ass on the way by. But thats a risk I take and I know it's there. But I can say that I have started backing off from the twisties at night due to dangerous issues. as some of you know by seeing me drop to the back of the pack once the ride gets going.




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post #14 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-13-2002, 03:37 PM Thread Starter
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dude..you just didnt smack..you copped a feel man...i still get weird feelings about that night, i almost got scared when you wanted to stop in that dark alley to talk about something



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post #15 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-13-2002, 03:38 PM
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For now I just want to say that I know that I ride faster on these group rides than I do out by myself. I know that riding faster reduces my margin of error, and I know that adding more people moving at higher speeds adds yet more variables. I add a chance that if I make a mistake I get someone else involved. I add a chance that if someone else has to do something unpredictable, either on purpose or to avoid an obstacle or even a mechanical probelm, that the additional variables may overwhelm the situation and turn serious FAST!

Am I unique in that aspect of riding? I don't know but a seriously doubt it. I know I can be a bit odd at times but as a reasonably intelligent person I believe that group psychology DOES have an affect and no matter how many times we say "ride your own ride" there is a group factor that can be entirely unconcious.

I am giving serious thought to how many of the group rides I join. I'm not trying to blame anyone. Yes, I accept the risk of riding and you all know that although I'm far from the best rider out there, I'm not exactly a granny on the Busa. I know if I decide to opt out that I'm going to miss you guys. It's not really about right or wrong. However, my initial impression of what we were doing and why has changed over time.

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post #16 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-13-2002, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Odysseys
dude..you just didnt smack..you copped a feel man...i still get weird feelings about that night, i almost got scared when you wanted to stop in that dark alley to talk about something
You know you loved it.






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post #17 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-13-2002, 03:46 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
It's not really about right or wrong. However, my initial impression of what we were doing and why has changed over time.
care to explain that alittle more?

last time i checked, we are still meeting new people, still making friends, getting to gain experance and lessons form others in all matter of facts, getting to ride together and having fun in what ever shape of group ride it is, comming together as riders, promoting the saftey of wearing gear, and getting people to realize theres a safe place to hit it REALLY hard versus on the streets. finding new places to ride to, hooking up and just chillen and posing, enjoying each others company.

on the flip note....theres always going to be accidents...thats what the word means , not by intension.

so please explain to me what ya mean dave...i know most of your out looks around here but hey, this is the thread for it...so please let me know what your thinking.



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post #18 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-13-2002, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Odysseys

so please explain to me what ya mean dave...i know most of your out looks around here but hey, this is the thread for it...so please let me know what your thinking.
I'll add some more but I want some time to think about it a bit more.

Dave
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post #19 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-13-2002, 03:58 PM
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I haven't read beyond this statement yet, but Ihad to stop and comment,
Quote:
You never heard talk of track days that much, Nesba, what's that. This year the group dynamics changed. Track this and track that, Nesba this and Nesba that. I think that track life style has spilled over into our regular rides.
I really have to disagree here....those of us that have been at the track regularly don't really participate in the group rides anymore. At least for me, I've seen how it can sometimes get out of hand. When I do ride in a group, it's in a small one with guys I know and trust their skillset. I never wheelie (intentionally) stoppie, or do burnouts. I also do not rail through corners at double the speed limit.

When was the last time me, Phozed, VTR996, or Doc (shit even Michael) went on a big group ride? These are just some of the regular track guys. I think we have all realized that at least for group rides...safety is in smaller numbers.
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post #20 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-13-2002, 04:05 PM Thread Starter
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safety is in smaller #'s of a group of riders...when it gets anything over 7 guys...it starts to become a CHORE for the leader and the riders back there...trust me i know...thats when THE PACE needs to be down to just normal speed posted limits and still use caution, just cause your doing the speed limit doesnt mean shit, anything and everything can still happen



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post #21 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-13-2002, 04:11 PM Thread Starter
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you know whats another thing too...even i realized this...cause it REALLY doesnt intrest me to much...BUT....we need more normal slow paced rides that are basicly out for crusing...just normal riding anywhere...that way anyone who isnt up to mild pace riding can attened and enjoy and is safe.

(maybe thats what dave was trying to mean?....i have noticed alot more faster paced rides going on) doesnt mean there not safe either...just means faster then most other people perceive as fast.

and trust me...if i am leading a ride like that you can assure...if someone crash;s its from falling asleep..lmao

but i gotta set some of these up..it will be fun no doubt



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post #22 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-13-2002, 06:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Odysseys
doesn't make what that other person is doing wrong or right
It's all about right and wrong. It's wrong to speed! It's illegal to speed. Why is it illegal? Maybe because it was proven time and time again that at higher speeds more accidents can happen. Just like it's been proven that helmets and gear save lives. So you will wear gear, which will help you in the case of an accident, but you won't slow down??? So how is this promoting a "safe" riding environment?

Quote:
Originally posted by Kruz
I really have to disagree here....those of us that have been at the track regularly don't really participate in the group rides anymore. At least for me, I've seen how it can sometimes get out of hand.
That is what I was saying before, the regular track goers tend to not participate in these group rides. I've also stopped as of a few months ago for the same reason.

Quote:
Originally posted by Odysseys
just cause your doing the speed limit doesn't mean shit, anything and everything can still happen
No one is saying that if you ride your bike according to speed limits you will be safe. Riding slower will give you more time to anticipate and prepare for trouble. To have an accident on the road is one thing, like when there is another vehicle involved. To cause an accident because you are riding too fast is another. We can’t prevent the first one but we can prevent the second.

Quote:
Originally posted by Michael
the rides have gotten significantly more aggressive. i honestly can't remember the last time we had a really casual large group ride.
Exactly… I can't remember either. The sad thing is I still show up to Strats knowing that I will not do the group ride. I either go home or just ride around by myself or if anyone wants to go to Naperville to hang out, we go there. Why have a bike night if we all can't go for a ride afterwords?

Last edited by VIVID1; 08-13-2002 at 06:43 PM.
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post #23 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-13-2002, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Michael

I'm also sure that when Dave decides to elaborate on this, it will have many more words than i'm going to put on here.

Is this humor?

Dave
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post #24 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-13-2002, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
That is what I was saying before, the regular track goers tend to not participate in these group rides. I've also stopped as of a few months ago for the same reason.
I think this is an incorrect statement. or maybe your just talking about the southside group rides. But up here in the north land, Jeff,Pete,Lupi,Alan and I still continue to ride our route together every chance we get. I have never been on a south side ride, because i myself think they are unsafe, to much traffic,guardrails,cops and unknown road conditions, none of these interest me or my riding style. But to say most track day riders have stopped going on group rides would be false we up here anyhow still get together and ride
Quote:
No one is saying that if you ride your bike according to speed limits you will be safe. Riding slower will give you more time to anticipate and prepare for trouble. To have an accident on the road is one thing, like when there is another vehicle involved. To cause an accident because you are riding too fast is another. We can’t prevent the first one but we can prevent the second.
I agree riding slower will give you more time to react to trouble then a faster pace. However one must realize that speed is all about perceptions and one persons ability to react to it. I for one know that what i think is casual is probably someone elses to fast, does that mean im being unsafe? No, would the person following me trying to keep up with something they shouldnt be trying and have been told not to be going to fast? yes

Most of you know I have led alot of group rides, I take everyone saftey personally, I go at a "PACE" that i think is exceptable for everyone on the ride based on my evaluation of the group within the first few miles.I lead these rides because I know the roads, they are 99%car free and away from civilization.I also lead these rides because i enjoy the company, get a kick out of everyones stories when we stop for a drink,gas,food etc. If this where to end i'd stop having them.I have never asked anyone to speed up, but i have asked people to slow down.
I have took the time to fall back and check on the slower riders and see what there doing. Have even offered to help them with there riding if they choose to except that, in fact within a half hour i had seen noticable improvement in 2 of them, this brings more joy to me then anything. I have also pushed track days for aggressive riding and skill improvement. One track day will teach you more about riding then a lifetime of street riding.
I guess i take this thread personaly because i tend to lead alot of group rides and have yet had anyone tell me that the ride was to fast or out of control.
Im here anyone wants to ride, just tell me, no matter what the pace is I LOVE RIDING and love the company.
stepping down from soap box now.

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post #25 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-13-2002, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by JimGoFast

One track day will teach you more about riding then a lifetime of street riding.
I've been giving this some thought since we talked about it at your BBQ. I haven't reached a decision yet because I've some reservations about taking the Busa out on the track (and I don't have full leathers).

I understand your point but would like to add that a lifetime of street riding has taught me to pay attention to factors that NEVER have to be considered on the track. It is largely these variables and the ability to recognize potentially very dangerous situations that has more influence on safety on the street. It's one thing to have the skill to get yourself out of situations. It's another entirely to avoid the situation in the first place.

I'll be the first to admit that I have not made much effort to organize the types of rides I would enjoy. I certainly am not meaning to attack or blame anyone. Even if I organized such a ride, it would not come with the assurance of never breaking a speed limit.

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post #26 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-13-2002, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by BusaDave
I understand your point but would like to add that a lifetime of street riding has taught me to pay attention to factors that NEVER have to be considered on the track. It is largely these variables and the ability to recognize potentially very dangerous situations that has more influence on safety on the street. It's one thing to have the skill to get yourself out of situations. It's another entirely to avoid the situation in the first place.
Yes you have a point you need to be defensive on the street. However just because you are looking for it does not mean you are going to avoid it. Will you be prepared to lock up your front brakes an swerve to avoid it or control a rear brake skid? or tree branch mid turn,gravel, will you be able to pull your turn in tighter because some idiot cager has decided to use your lane mid turn or will you freeze up?(ask lupi about this one, i bet his reaction to that car would be different today then it was then).
My point being, the track is not just a place to learn how to ride fast, it is a place to practice your skills in a control enviroment so when that time comes on the road and you need it you will have it. So when you talk about saftey on the street, I would think that with the knowledge you gain from riding(not racing) on the track will prove to be the better tool then just looking for dangerous situations. Trust me a year ago I'd mabye agree'd with you but after what i've a complished from doing track days theres no way i can say differ then i do now.

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post #27 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-13-2002, 08:23 PM
 
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For the leaders:

Unless you know the people you are riding with, you do not know what they are are are not comfortable with. (pace/type/locale) Therefore, it is very much up to the follower, to decide their comfort level and determine, for themselves, if they should be riding with said group/ride. Leaders in no way shape or form should accept responsibility for someone in the group for any reason. (unless of course you forced them at gunpoint to purchase a bike and cover them at all times with said gun while riding said bike to ensure they keep up)....we all make the choice to ride for what it does for us.

"Ride your own ride" does not necessarily apply

If I was still riding my own ride, I would still be on a Katana still not picking up chicks, still not wearing a helmet, still not riding with anyone,and of course I still would not have broken my 80mph threshold........ & fuck that turning crap.

Instead, the"Group" has allowed me to learn, and flourish in a sport that I now love. The first rides of the year (my first) allowed me to explore the handling and power available to me on my bike. I have yet, to not be confident on any ride, simply due to the fact that when I ride with you guys.....you are showing me how to do it, and that it can be done, and thus far, how to ride without mishap, and how enjoyable riding truly is. I never felt pushed/pressured to ride in any way that I, myself did not want to do, and if I was too slow, I knew you would wait.

Everyday is a learning experience for all of us in everything we do. I have done things I will do again.....and things I will not. Experience dictates "our own ride" and then, we can choose when/where/who we ride with.

I wouldn' t give back 1 mile of 1 ride.
Brian

Last edited by Brian; 08-13-2002 at 08:25 PM.
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post #28 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-13-2002, 08:26 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by JimGoFast
I think this is an incorrect statement. or maybe your just talking about the southside group rides. But up here in the north land, Jeff,Pete,Lupi,Alan and I still continue to ride our route together every chance we get. I have never been on a south side ride, because i myself think they are unsafe, to much traffic,guardrails,cops and unknown road conditions, none of these interest me or my riding style. But to say most track day riders have stopped going on group rides would be false we up here anyhow still get together and ride
I know that your rides still take place but I wasn't referring to those... I guess I should have clarified. Your group is sort of isolated, I was talking about all the night rides and the weekend rides that don't stick to one particular route or area. I think you guys are sort of exempt, but think about all the people that do NESBA now, how many of those people do you see on group rides? Or post that they are going on a group ride? If you have not been to the other rides than you probably don't know how crazy they get.

Don't take this thread personally Jim, I am the biggest complainer and I've never had any problems with you leading a ride. You guys ride at a faster pace but always as safe as possible. The only LITH ride I had a problem with was the one that someone else took over, you were not on that ride.
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post #29 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-13-2002, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by JimGoFast
Will you be prepared to lock up your front brakes an swerve to avoid it or control a rear brake skid? or tree branch mid turn,gravel, will you be able to pull your turn in tighter because some idiot cager has decided to use your lane mid turn or will you freeze up?(ask lupi about this one, i bet his reaction to that car would be different today then it was then).
Totally!!!! Instead of the:

OH FUCK OH FUCK O FUCK

that when through my head....I'd probably just go

I think I'll move over here.....JACKASS!!!!!

Which is one thing that the track has most definately helped with. That and the great set of reagulars that I get to ride with out here. I often feel that I am spoiled, because I can always get an honest opinion on things and five minutes of their time if I want to go try something and get some feedback!
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post #30 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-13-2002, 09:18 PM
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My worthless opinion

First off this is a great topic to discuss. Thanks Ken

Im going to say that a week ago tonight was the first ride out of many that I dropped out of before it was completed,1st reason is because I was under the impression it was going to be a tame ride........... In my opinion as soon as we left strats it was faster then tame.
The night before that was insane and we all made it home just fine, but I wasnt ready to push it like that 2 nights in a row.
The dickhead imposter with the yellow jacket confirmed my dropping out after he buzzed me on the off ramp.

I think its more then important to state the type of ride and stick to it PERIOD!
I believe it takes a mind set to be prepared for whatever kind of ride its going to be. For me if its gonna be a slow ride Im way more relaxed and if its anything faster then slow my addrenalin starts taking over and Im prepared for it, {follow me?}
I think by now most of us know how each other rides and where we should line up, if not, get in the back, trust me if your faster then the guy in front of you he or she will let you get in front of them, it sucks being haunted thru a ride trust me.
Jim is a great leader on rides and I suggest you go on one of his LITH rides before the year is over its worth the ride to get there and if Cherry can ride there you have no room to complain.
Andy led some really good rides this year to
Ken Your a great leader of rides too.

We are all adults here and nobodys forcing anyone to do anything, If you dont like the ride and how its going tell the backmarker and drop out, dont bitch and ruin it for everyone else.

I feel some bad vibes from this thread, Ive made alot of new friends here, lets not blow a good thing.

I cant opinion on the track day thing YET! But anyone that feels negative thoughts about it, I think you should sit back and rethink what your thoughts are. How could it possibly hurt your street skills in anyway? It cant. And if anything else, its a great feeling being able to do whatever you want on your bike and not have to look over your shoulder for a cop

I have no clue if this followed the thread or not

This is gonna hurt!
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