Sheesh.. and WE complain about power-tripping cops... - Chicagoland Sportbikes
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post #1 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-19-2002, 05:44 PM Thread Starter
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Sheesh.. and WE complain about power-tripping cops...

Check THESE A-HOLES out...

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/topstory2/1539629

I say we bring back the guillotine, and "handle" every one of the punk-ass cops that were involved in this - except for the cop that actually issued the raid. I say we give him a slow, painful death.

Don't you just LOVE how cops seem to enjoy handling a group of kids as some massive gathering of serious criminals?

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post #2 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-19-2002, 05:55 PM
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Yeah, I think there was actually a post on SBN from some Houston people about this that I read. If I'm right, they raided the parking lot, arrested those 400 something people, towed over 100 cars, etc. because it was a hangout for, uh, street racers and whatever.
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post #3 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-19-2002, 06:01 PM Thread Starter
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I just don't understand how people hanging out in a parking lot can be considered illegal? Regardless of where it is. It pisses me off when I'm down at 19/Barrington BS'ing and hanging out with friends, and the cops come through and bitch everybody out. True, we set up streetraces there, I won't argue that. But we aren't doing the racing there. Shit, we're not even doing the racing in the same town - or same COUNTY half the time. We aren't selling drugs. We aren't causing problems. We're just standing around, talking.

Isn't there something in the constitution about "the right to congregate"?

I tell ya... if I was one of those that was arrested, mistreated, stereotyped, and detained, being a legitimate customer of an establishment during their REGULAR business hours - I'd be suing the SHIT out of the local PD!!!

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post #4 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-19-2002, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by OmniGLH
I tell ya... if I was one of those that was arrested, mistreated, stereotyped, and detained, being a legitimate customer of an establishment during their REGULAR business hours - I'd be suing the SHIT out of the local PD!!!
True that.

I wasn't disagreeing with you about the unjustness of these arrests or anything, either, btw. It seems a little bit different and, of course, more extreme in the case of the Houston kids, but I think it just comes down to the business owner not wanting everyone to gather there. I know that in Gurnee at the Taco Bell every Friday or Saturday night, they get real pissed at all the kids standing around filling up their parking lot waiting to go race. Same thing happens downtown when people used to race by Doty Rd.--they'd kick people out of the gas station and that closed tire shop 'cause the business owners don't want people there who are just loitering and whatever.
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post #5 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-19-2002, 09:06 PM
 
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Man that story has me pissed off. Especially the 10 year old girl.

I wonder if they arrested "everybody" to insure that no one would claim discrimination. Not that it matters anyways, they can't do shit to you like that. Just because you're in a crowd of potential law breakers, does not make you guilty of anything. AHHHH!!! Assholes. I wonder what they accomplished by that. They totally ruined public/PD relations down there and probably benefited little in actual arrests of wanted felons.

A slow death (as stated above) is justified, very justified.

PS On a local note...

I don't know if this is the case this year, but it certainly was last year. Strat's in Franklin Park (Mannheim and Grand Ave):

Because of all the congregations of cars/bikes spilling over into a lot other than that of strats (bunch of businesses which are closed at night anyways) they put up signs. They were mounted a good 10-12 feet up on lamp post and very long. If you read the print, it said that they would put a boot, a fucking boot on your car if you parked there and went to strats. Cost to free your car, over $100. The fucking cops would show up with a minivan full of these boots and just lay there waiting. You could park next to them and they wouldn't say shit. You walk over 50 feet to strats and, bam, car immobilized until you pay. Not as bad as arresting hundreds of people for nothing, but certainly a bunch of crap. Ok, i'm done. Off the soap box.....
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post #6 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-20-2002, 01:35 AM
 
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You guys only read whats put infront of you.

I'd bet money that more went on at the place then what the reporters list. You all know that the media is a twisted force, that can make anything look whatever way they wanted it to.

Most likely, there was some fairly bad stuff going on there and thats why the raid was originally planned out. Cops don't just get together enough officers to arrest 400 people, unless it's a serious issue. Buglray, drugs, hassling customers constantly.. it could be ANYTHING, but the media will not tell you about that.. the media wants it to look like it's 100 percent BAD COPS so thats how it will look.

All I'm saying is try to read in between the lines, and don't take everything you read as truth.. there is almost always somthing that someone left out.

Certainly, the mentioned cases are out of line.. but until the entire scenario is revealed, there is no way to totally pass judgement on the coppers for doing what they are ordered to do.

Media sucks ass.
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post #7 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-20-2002, 02:27 AM
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In case anyone is interested, here's the thread from SBN. I think there were some actual Houston people posting in it, so maybe it gives more background info.

http://www.sportbikes.net/forums/sho...threadid=97141

Mike, of course I couldn't really say for sure, but I don't think there was anything very serious going on in the parking lot that warrented such a raid. No major drug slinging or anything like that, I mean.
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post #8 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-20-2002, 08:00 AM
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Well the arrest record of that day are public record. It shouldn't be too hard to figure out if the percentage of drug arrests or drugs confiscated are appropriate.

Arresting EVERYONE around is STILL overkill, as you will see if it happens to you.

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post #9 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-20-2002, 09:24 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by OmniGLH

Isn't there something in the constitution about "the right to congregate"?
Not on private property. I'm sure there were signs posted to the effect of "no loitering" or else the PD/Kmart/Sonic would have no basis.

I liked the story. I think more teens need a night or two in jail. It shows that society is nothing like their spineless parents.

I've been able to stay out of jail for 31 years, and am able to identify where I should, and should not be. I doubt the expose on the select few detainees were completely objective, and I also doubt that they were completely innocent. The straight A student should have been able to read the no loitering sign.

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post #10 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-20-2002, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brian

The straight A student should have been able to read the no loitering sign.
Neglecting the fact that loitering is a pretty lame charge to begin someone's arrest record, and neglecting the fact that (according to the report) some had just been shopping there, you MAY want to consider before you get too righteous about this that most citys have some form of loitering law.

While we don't know all the facts here, it's pretty likely that many of these bystanders were smoking and throwing their butts on the ground even though trash receptacles were nearby, drinking beverages and throwing their containers on the ground, etc. We've all seen the smoke shows that can result from a group of people encouraging the muscle cars.

The result is that an otherwise harmless gathering of people (teens) turns into a nuisance or noise, littering, and general mischief problem.

I will be the first in line to speak out to protect the right of free assembly, but if you assemble and have no respect for your surroundings, what exactly do you EXPECT to happen when the community gets tired of your crap and complains to the police?

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post #11 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-20-2002, 10:07 AM
 
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Furthermore, this countries police force is asked to deal with/take out the trash, and deal with the dregs of society. So if there are a few false arrests, or a little corporal punishment administered from time to time, we cry “FOUL”. Try looking at it from the cops perspective, and they do it for minimal wages! Or the business owners perspective, dealing with throngs of teenagers, obviously turning away potential higher paying patrons. I am not an advocate for police by any stretch, but it’s a dirty job that needs to be done. Maybe we could all be law abiding citizens, thereby making an organized police force obsolete.

I think that is about $.18
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post #12 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-20-2002, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brian
Furthermore, this countries police force is asked to deal with/take out the trash, and deal with the dregs of society. So if there are a few false arrests, or a little corporal punishment administered from time to time, we cry “FOUL”. Try looking at it from the cops perspective, and they do it for minimal wages! Or the business owners perspective, dealing with throngs of teenagers, obviously turning away potential higher paying patrons. I am not an advocate for police by any stretch, but it’s a dirty job that needs to be done. Maybe we could all be law abiding citizens, thereby making an organized police force obsolete.

I think that is about $.18
Brian
I agree with you and Dave. Unfortunately getting the short end of the stick really sucks. I know I would be pissed if I was arrested while taking my wife out for ice cream. I just hope the justice system straightens out who were the perpetrators and who were the unfortunate innocent bystanders. An arrest on these kids records could mean the difference of getting a scholarship or not, or even getting into some of the private colleges. That could be detrimental to some innocent kids future.

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post #13 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-20-2002, 10:43 AM
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I'm with Mike on this one. At least for now. I tend to not beleive whole heartedly anything in the news until it is co-oberated (sp) by other sources. Too many get the story out now get the headlines while you can.

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post #14 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-20-2002, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Crazy


I agree with you and Dave.
Actually, I think my views are different than Brian's. However I was trying to illustrate how people failing to be responsible citizens can contribute to the community asking for action from the police.

If the people assembling are having little negative impact, then there's little justification for hassling them, other than the excercise of authority of course.

Using the excuse of private property to stifle rights is a very tricky area when the private property in question is a business that is open to the public. The black-and-white thinking becomes more gray, and SHOULD be more gray in a free society.

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post #15 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-20-2002, 11:20 AM Thread Starter
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Ok well now that I've had a day to cool off over this, I don't feel as 'militant'. I'm sure 400+ HS kids can get to be a bit of a hassle. We all know how disrespectful teens can be when it comes to general public behavior, littering, etc.

I guess I took offense to it somewhat based on my personal experience. We generally try to keep the lots clean, chew out the punks that make a mess, etc... because we KNOW that's the big reason why the owners of the parking lots complain. It's generally the young, HS-aged kids that are the biggest pain. You know that the McD's on 19/Barrington actually COMPLAINED to the POLICE about them kicking us out? Their business dropped BIG time once we all stopped hanging out there. I'm sure SONIC makes some serious bank with all the kids hanging out there. But whatever.

The line about cutting cops a break, because of the slime they deal with, IMO is just total BS. I don't feel sympathy for them, not one bit... it's their CHOSEN profession. Boo-hoo, I have to deal with the scum of the earth... fine. Don't like it, do something else. NO ONE is forcing them to be police officers. Just because they have to deal with crappy people on a day-to-day basis, is NO excuse to treat EVERYONE like a POS.

Just my opinion.

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post #16 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-20-2002, 11:21 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by BusaDave

If the people assembling are having little negative impact, then there's little justification for hassling them, other than the excercise of authority of course.
True, publicly.....but, this is private property.
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post #17 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-20-2002, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mike

Media sucks ass.
True, True :-
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post #18 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-20-2002, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brian
Not on private property. I'm sure there were signs posted to the effect of "no loitering" or else the PD/Kmart/Sonic would have no basis.

I liked the story. I think more teens need a night or two in jail. It shows that society is nothing like their spineless parents.

I've been able to stay out of jail for 31 years, and am able to identify where I should, and should not be. I doubt the expose on the select few detainees were completely objective, and I also doubt that they were completely innocent. The straight A student should have been able to read the no loitering sign.

Brian
Brian, I disagree wholeheartedly! I would suggest that you wouldn't feel the same way had it been you they arrested, or maybe your wife, sister, daughter...

So you've been lucky up until now. What happens tomorrow when they do stop you, and throw you in jail for a night and let you worry about sorting it out? Maybe you'll pull into strats to get a burger and they arrest everyone. You knew not to be there, right?

So you think that loitering should be punishable with a night in jail. What's next? You don't speed do you?
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post #19 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-20-2002, 01:32 PM Thread Starter
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I give every officer I meet the benefit of the doubt... and I honestly believe that a majority of the police officers out there ARE doing it for the right reasons.

But that still leaves a large number of officers out there, who have taken the job simply for the power aspects. They hate the job, hate the pay, and hate anyone who has it better than them. And, unfortunately, anyone who makes more than $35k a year, most likely has it better than them. So they take it out on everyone.

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post #20 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-20-2002, 04:34 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jack


Brian, I disagree wholeheartedly! I would suggest that you wouldn't feel the same way had it been you they arrested, or maybe your wife, sister, daughter...

So you've been lucky up until now. What happens tomorrow when they do stop you, and throw you in jail for a night and let you worry about sorting it out? Maybe you'll pull into strats to get a burger and they arrest everyone. You knew not to be there, right?

So you think that loitering should be punishable with a night in jail. What's next? You don't speed do you?
Hmmm let's see.....
1) Staying out of jail has nothing to do with luck.
2) Strat's wants us there.
3) Loitering=night in jail...I do not make up the rules/laws.. I just follow the rules/laws......should I break the rules/laws,and get caught, I should be punished appropriately.

Your reaction is not terribly uncommon...none of us are to be expected to be accountable for our own actions.
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post #21 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-20-2002, 04:44 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Michael


private property open to the public .. you see the "gray" area now?

I'm with Jim on the sympathy issue .. i have none. it's not like they didn't know the job would suck when they took it.

how many believe a good chunk of the police force only took the job for the power anyway?
I believe that every store/rest. etc. .....could/should/does have a policy in writing for the public, that they may refuse service, for any reason. IMO there is no grey area. I can be fairly certain that 400-500 people did not show up out of the blue....i am sure this was not the first course of action.


Love the police "sympathy issue" you will not get any from me, but, if not them who....you? (and not you Michael)....anyone look in the mirror and thank someone, that you, do not deal with that every day.
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post #22 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-20-2002, 04:58 PM
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If you are congregated somewhere with over 400 peep hope u have a permit first of all. Second if it is in a parking lot, most bussinesses already have papers signed giving the police authority on their behalf on enforcing rules on their property. Now let say something else for a police dept to arrest 400 people there had to be something else going on. Ask any police officer and they will tell you that having to arrest more tht 3 people at the same time can turn into a MAJOR clusterfuck and if it was done it was because there was major bitching to the chief of police and the mayor by ALOT of people. Otherwise it would have never happened.

How do you turn this thing on?
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post #23 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-20-2002, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brian

Your reaction is not terribly uncommon...none of us are to be expected to be accountable for our own actions.
I am accountable for my own actions thank you--I just wish to be treated fairly.

I can hope only that you're treated to a taste of "your" justice sometime in the near future and I don't have to hear you cry about it here.
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post #24 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-20-2002, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brian


I believe that every store/rest. etc. .....could/should/does have a policy in writing for the public, that they may refuse service, for any reason. IMO there is no grey area. I can be fairly certain that 400-500 people did not show up out of the blue....i am sure this was not the first course of action.
Both gray and grey are acceptable, not sure why the "quotes" earlier.

Clearly, no matter what the store/rest. etc. says on a sign, if they are open to the public, they are not allowed to discriminate against Federal and State laws and by extension CANNOT refuse service for ANY reason, or at least better keep certain reasons to themselves.

Regardless of your common-sense certainty about this event, we have yet to get the facts.

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post #25 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-20-2002, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brian


Hmmm let's see.....
1) Staying out of jail has nothing to do with luck.
More than you might think sometimes.

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post #26 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-20-2002, 05:58 PM
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how do u figure staying out of jail is luck... you either commited a crime or you didn't. THats kinda simple and i don't see luck anywhere in there

How do you turn this thing on?
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post #27 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-20-2002, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jibaro69
how do u figure staying out of jail is luck... you either commited a crime or you didn't. THats kinda simple and i don't see luck anywhere in there
What you're saying is that innocent people never get arrested.
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post #28 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-20-2002, 06:20 PM
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granted some people that are innocent do get arrested but it is not very common at all. If you go to any prison and ask anyone in there if they are guilty they will all say they are innocent

How do you turn this thing on?
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post #29 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-20-2002, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jibaro69
how do u figure staying out of jail is luck... you either commited a crime or you didn't. THats kinda simple and i don't see luck anywhere in there
I brought up luck because in this situation it was reported that people who were shopping at the KMart and people who were eating at the Sonic were arrested. It would appear that these people were arrested randomly and thus were simply unlucky.

Imagine going to Strats like place. Sure you see a big congregation across the street and wonder what's going on, but hey, you're there to get some dinner. The cops show up and ask you to come with them, through you in with the congregation, arrest you, put you in jail overnight, tow your car and charge you. Is that fair? Is it just? Brian seems to think so. Hey, he even thinks it might do you some good sine your parents are probably spineless twits.
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post #30 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-20-2002, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jibaro69
granted some people that are innocent do get arrested but it is not very common at all.
However, since the only facts we currently have available have stated that people shopping and dining were also arrested and that there are people indicating that this is ok, then the fact that innocent people get arrested would become quite more common.

So now we have people here on the board ready to do verbal battle having already admitted we probably don't have all the facts, all the while inventing their own facts to argue about.

In the meantime, I'm left to figure out why it's ok to call the press liers and instigators or people commenting on the facts available police-haters, or whatever name you have for the parents, but it is apparently not ok to have an opinion when the police, individually OR collectively, abuse their authority.

IT'S NOT OK TO ARREST INNOCENT PEOPLE! I do not consider this a debateable issue so don't waste your time trying to justify it to me.

p.s. Yes, I know innocence is decided by the court system, but I think you know what I mean.

Dave

Last edited by BusaDave; 08-20-2002 at 11:20 PM.
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